Apple shafting the Irish again

Oriel

http://uk.gizmodo.com/2008/02/29/iphone_goes_to_ireland_irish_g.html

What the hell? What did you do to deserve that?

K.O.Kiki

Oriel wrote: »

http://uk.gizmodo.com/2008/02/29/iphone_goes_to_ireland_irish_g.html

What the hell? What did you do to deserve that?

Well, I didn't do anything cos I don't want an iPhone...

TerrorFirmer

Unsurprisingly, people will buy it anyway, a lot of them ignorant of what it actually does or what it can do. I've heard people saying they want it because it can play music...:rolleyes:

aidan_walsh

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Unsurprisingly, people will buy it anyway, a lot of them ignorant of what it actually does or what it can do. I've heard people saying they want it because it can play music...:rolleyes:

The public in not researching what they buy first shocker...

whiterebel

Wasted typing, i suppose, but just don't buy it. I'm waiting til I go to Florida in August, but I still need my head testing........

merkuree

Apple shafting the irish? Exchange rates, taxes all conspire in this....

I think people should be more outraged by the pricing models of mobile phone companies in Ireland......they do a tremendous job of shafting consumers....and they reap the benefits.

Prices for mobile voice and data plans in other parts of the world are 1/3 or 1/2 of what they are in Ireland.

That price premium for telecom in Ireland is a disincentive to the adoption of mobile data by consumers and enterprise.

condra

merkuree wrote: »

I think people should be more outraged by the pricing models of mobile phone companies in Ireland......they do a tremendous job of shafting consumers....and they reap the benefits.

hear hear

Doctor DooM

Over priced phone in Ireland shock.

This is nothing to do with apple, it's all about the networks. Lack of competition here compared to the UK. It's getting slowly better, but they'll wring as much cash out of us as we will allow. Sadly thats what business' do.

whiterebel

SDooM wrote: »

Over priced phone in Ireland shock.

This is nothing to do with apple, it's all about the networks. Lack of competition here compared to the UK. It's getting slowly better, but they'll wring as much cash out of us as we will allow. Sadly thats what business' do.

Plenty to do with Apple. They have the gun to the head of the mobile phone operators.

merkuree

Did the the CEO of O2 really say this?

"I'd say your Apple freaks will be queuing out the door when we launch,"

Seriously, this is a joke, right?

Eric Cartman

its to do with vat rates, the uk only has 17.5% vat, if you look at the us quoted price without tax ($399) it equates to 291 euro (at 1.37 exchange rate as the prices get worked out at, i know its more now) , 291 euro + 21% vat is 352 euro, but if you look at the uk : its £269 = €376 (inc vat at 17.5%) , so €320 ex vat so we pay : 291 ex vat, they pay 320 ex vat, so its our tax system that screws us, apple likes us more :P

also the US pay anywhere from 8.8 to 14% tax depending on their state so at best an iphne costs them :

$430 = 314 euro (tax at 8%)

and at worst it costs
$454 = 331 euro (tax at 14%)

the US is only doing mildly better in price than us

jester77

Wow, I don't know what the whole uproar is over. UK is a different market totally to Ireland. Why not compare the Irish tariff to the German tariff seeing as they both use the same currency?

iPhone: same price
contract: 18 months v 24 months
basic tariff: €45 v €49
mins included: 175 v 100
sms included: 100 v 40
data: 1GB v 200mb*

*while the data is unlimited, it is throttled to 64kbit/s after 200mb making it fairly useless.

And Germany has a lower VAT rate!

So is Ireland really getting shafted as so many people like to point out?

Doctor DooM

whiterebel wrote: »

Plenty to do with Apple. They have the gun to the head of the mobile phone operators.

? Care to explain? there are plenty of examples contrary to that here.

srdb20

I think he is referring to the lack of subsidies being offered on handsets.....

merkuree

Taxes do play a part, I agree. But I am not convinced that taxes explain it all..

Phone carriers, like O2, are already paying 'below retail' price for these phones from Apple.....so their mark-up/margin is certainly inflating the cost to consumers.

Inflating the prices for data plans and limitiing functionality is a barrier to adoption of emerging mobile technologies by consumers and enterprise.
If you consider Apples business model for the iphone, it assumes cheap data access and that the iphone be used to purchase content and services from itunes ......video rentals, purchases, itune tracks, value added services.

Mediocre or overpriced dataplans contradict that business model. If Apple had negotiated that the telcos slash dataplan prices to encourage adoption, european iphone sales would be in better shape.....and consumers would be in better shape too.

merkuree

typical plan in the US is:

- 1000 minutes nationwide peak (7am-7pm weekdays)
- free nights and weekends nationwide - unlimited voice minutes
- unlimited data and e-mail (there may be some limit but would be difficult to exceed it)
- access via wi-fi to ATT hotspots in starbucks stores (included)
- itunes store content cached locally at starbucks stores and downloaded over wi-fi

runs about $80 per month

faceman

The consumer has a part to play in all of thise. Ireland is the worst country in the world for accepting shoddy service and over inflated prices.

merkuree

I think in any market (US, Asian, European), your mobile phone bill will run you about $80 or 50 euro....

But what you receive in terms of services and limits on those services varies greatly in different markets.

50 euro of service plan in europe gets you far, far less than an equivalent in Asian and US markets.

And I just do not understand how Apple were unable to negotiate a subsidy for data services for the european consumer to encourage iphone adoption.

But realistically, lower data plan costs should be available to all...I am sure that Irish mobile data networks were not designed to cost 4 times as much to run.....and I am sure they did not cost 5-6 more per user to build....

Doctor DooM

merkuree wrote: »

I think in any market (US, Asian, European), your mobile phone bill will run you about $80 or 50 euro....

But what you receive in terms of services and limits on those services varies greatly in different markets.

50 euro of service plan in europe gets you far, far less than an equivalent in Asian and US markets.

And I just do not understand how Apple were unable to negotiate a subsidy for data services for the european consumer to encourage iphone adoption.

But realistically, lower data plan costs should be available to all...I am sure that Irish mobile data networks were not designed to cost 4 times as much to run.....and I am sure they did not cost 5-6 more per user to build....

Because they dont have to. It will sell like wildfire anyway.

Blazer

You ask me Apple shaft all their customers anyway...
Think back to the original launch of the iphone and all those idiots who bought it on day 1...month later apple cut price by $100 to increase demand and appleheads went nuts..at least they were given the $100 back though..
I love the ipod and have bought about 4 of them..but think the iphone is crap..lovely interface but that's about it..who wants a phone that when you're writing a text and then suddenly rings you've lost what you're writing and have to start over again..and no 3G? no thanks.

merkuree

Yeah, it might sell with existing O2 customers or non savvy folks....

But the situation only encourages people to buy iphones independently, jailbreak them and use another network.....

other networks dont offer visual voicemail, so i dont see any advantage to using O2

It would be in Apples interest to give people an incentive to use the O2 network by subsidising data plan costs, so Apple can get a piece of the contract revenues

Or is that the way it happens in europe? Maybe it does not work that way in Europe. In the US, Apple get a cut of the AT&T contract revenues over the 2 year contract that folks signed for their new iphone.......

people using jailbroken phones on non AT&T networks in the US cost Apple the contract revenue that AT&T negotiated for sole distribution rights....

But I guess Apple still get a phone sale out of it, no matter who carries the service....

pandaboy

the competition authority should really pull the finger out and start investigating mobile phone companies.

France is the only country that does not have locked iPhones. It may be on the Orange network but in france they cannot lock them because of some competitions clause.

O2 of all networks. they are one of the more expensive!

whiterebel

SDooM wrote: »

Because they dont have to. It will sell like wildfire anyway.

Its in Apple's interests to keep the tariffs higher if they are getting the percentage from O2.
perfect scenario -100% for their phone and a cut of the voice and data packages. Nokia must be gnashing their teeth that they are not getting the same with the N95, which looks superb, if a little chunky.

aidan_walsh

pandaboy wrote: »

the competition authority should really pull the finger out and start investigating mobile phone companies.

France is the only country that does not have locked iPhones. It may be on the Orange network but in france they cannot lock them because of some competitions clause.

O2 of all networks. they are one of the more expensive!

Unlocked iPhones are available as options in both France and Germany.

jester77

aidan_walsh wrote: »

Unlocked iPhones are available as options in both France and Germany.

Not in Germany any more. Vodafone brought an injunction against T-Mobile regarding their exclusivity of the iphone forcing them to sell it sim-free. But T-Mobile won the case and the injunction was lifted. This is bad in more ways than one as now phones from any manufacturer can be limited to certain networks which was previously not the case. So you could end up seeing the top Nokia's exclusive to just one network

pandaboy

aidan_walsh wrote: »

Unlocked iPhones are available as options in both France and Germany.

Not in germany. The contract is with T-Mobile. Vodafone sold unlocked iPhones but at €999.

This is no longer the case.
they are on contract only!

aidan_walsh

Ah, you're right. Forgot it was overturned a few weeks later. My bad.

pandaboy

this will lead to major jail breaking. it's not Apple that's losing money though. It's O2. they receive their cut when their contract is activated which it will not be when the jail break occurs.

it's all a bit gay to say the least. but there is no consideration from Apple for the Irish market. Just US and UK!

Look at Applecare alone for its products, luckily enough they have not released this plan for the iPhone as of yet

whiterebel

pandaboy wrote: »

Look at Applecare alone for its products, luckily enough they have not released this plan for the iPhone as of yet

$69 in the US for an extra year versus $399 purchase price? Seems ok to me.
Don't know if you've ever owned a Mac, but one repair to a MacBook or MacBook pro will be more then the price of the protection plan itself.

djk1000

Don't know if this is off topic, but I'm liking the HTC Cruise, why buy an iPhone on an 18 month contract (with a 12 month warranty!) When there are better options out there. http://www.htc.com/product/03-product_htctouch_cruise.htm

It's windows based, which is a pain. But sim free, with expandable memory.

LG are getting in on the act too

http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/01/18/lg.takes.on.iphone/

I reckon that the iPhone has been overtaken by others, I'll be waiting for the next generation iPhone before I consider it further. Don't believe the hype!!!

jpfahy

I had the HTC touch in my hand at the StuffLive Show in Hammersmith last November. Its a joke compared to the iPhone which I had in my pocket. It was unintuitive, slow and difficult to use. Neither myself nor the guy on the stand could get it to work right. iPhone blows it away

pandaboy

whiterebel wrote: »

$69 in the US for an extra year versus $399 purchase price? Seems ok to me.
Don't know if you've ever owned a Mac, but one repair to a MacBook or MacBook pro will be more then the price of the protection plan itself.

Trying to sell me some Applecare, eh?;)

yes, that's the US. it will not be available in the UK or Ireland. Have you seen the prices in the UK and Ireland. Very expensive, I currently own three macs and do a lot of work with Apple.

whiterebel

pandaboy wrote: »

Trying to sell me some Applecare, eh?;)

yes, that's the US. it will not be available in the UK or Ireland. Have you seen the prices in the UK and Ireland. Very expensive, I currently own three macs and do a lot of work with Apple.

I'd say they will have Applecare in Europe, but like the original iPod, it will take a while before it is up and running in Europe. If they have to have a repair centre, it only makes sense they would offer Applecare as well. They have such big business with TNT and UPS it would cost them very little to collect and deliver them.

pandaboy

whiterebel wrote: »

I'd say they will have Applecare in Europe, but like the original iPod, it will take a while before it is up and running in Europe. If they have to have a repair centre, it only makes sense they would offer Applecare as well. They have such big business with TNT and UPS it would cost them very little to collect and deliver them.

one of the main reasons is that O2 will have to deal with the majority of complaints. Being a phone it's going to be out dated in a year (to be honest it's main feature is both wi-fi and a camera, one that does not record). but O2 seen as the network provider will be the head honchos for this. The UK is the only country in Europe to sell the iPhone online from the Apple Store. So Apple have landed on their feet in a way with regards to warranty responsibility.

whiterebel

pandaboy wrote: »

one of the main reasons is that O2 will have to deal with the majority of complaints. Being a phone it's going to be out dated in a year (to be honest it's main feature is both wi-fi and a camera, one that does not record). but O2 seen as the network provider will be the head honchos for this. The UK is the only country in Europe to sell the iPhone online from the Apple Store. So Apple have landed on their feet in a way with regards to warranty responsibility.

I'd be stunned if Apple let anyone else mess with either software or hardware support. I've heard already there will be a transfer across from O2 to Apple, and that makes more sense. If they can run the iphone into the same reapair channel as the iPods it makes sense for them.

Creamy Goodness

i hate all this sensational bull**** that revolves around the iphone.

apple have been doing this 1 dollar = 1 euro for ages, so why use the iphone to bring up something that's been happening for quite some time.

what's more comparing o2 ie and o2 uk is stupid as they are both separate companies trading under the same name, same as when you go to macdonalds in different counties, they have slightly different pricing structures.

Simon201

Cremo wrote: »

slightly different pricing structures.

Well it's hardly 'slightly'. I like to see peoples reactions if they bought a nice kit kat in UK and then came here and bought one for the same price and it only had one bar in it!!



(Reference - 175 minutes compared to 600 minutes)

Doctor DooM

whiterebel wrote: »

Its in Apple's interests to keep the tariffs higher if they are getting the percentage from O2.
perfect scenario -100% for their phone and a cut of the voice and data packages. Nokia must be gnashing their teeth that they are not getting the same with the N95, which looks superb, if a little chunky.

I cant see O2 doing that, anyone got a linky?