Rare cars,but not what you think!!

carchaeologist

In this months practical classics(april08)it has a list of cars that have only a few examples on the road,though the figures are just for english registrations.
Datsun1300 68to73 1 left
Audi80S 72to78 1 left
FSO125P 67to91-3 left
Lada1300 74to81 3 left
Lancia trevi 80to84 5 left
Alfa romeo alfa 6 79to86 6 left
Datsun violet 710 73to77 6 left
Alfa romeo Arna 84to87 6 left
Chrysler 2litre 70to82 5 left
Mitsubishi Tredia 82to90 4left
Fiat 133 74to 82 4 left
Chrysler Horizon 77to79 4 left
Mazda R100 68to73 1 left
Dacia denem 69to83 1 left(its a renault12 derivitive)
I always find it amazing that some once common cars practically become extinct, i mean who would have thought the chrysler horizon would have just 4 roadworthy examples in england!!Who knows, you could have a rarity in your garage and not realise!!:D

MercMad

These details are taken from the DVLA and the SORN info, so whilst it DOES relate to the amount on UK roads its not really correct for them to say that this is the amount actually left !

Interesting but hardly surprising since most of that list of cars were junk when new, they werent likely to improve as the years went by !

Max_Damage

No doubt that in 20 years time, the Daewoo Matiz (and every other Daewoo for that matter) and Fiat Punto Mk1 will be on this list!

mike65

Dacia denem 69 to 83 1 left

One to many!

MercMad makes the point of course, lets face it we know there are many more than 5 Chrysler 2 lites about.

Mike

S.I.R

i know of 2 80's from the mid 70's in the dublin region but im quite sure that theres tons of satsuns around.... in old folks garages and such :rolleyes:

carchaeologist

MercMad wrote: »

These details are taken from the DVLA and the SORN info, so whilst it DOES relate to the amount on UK roads its not really correct for them to say that this is the amount actually left !

oops:odidnt mean to give the wrong impression, thats what i meant,it was just roadworthy figures.
I reckon for every classic on the road theres at least one stored away in a shed somewhere,im sure alot of the heads on here have more than one hidden away for every roadworthy one:DAs for the datsuns in the old peoples sheds, send them this way!:p

Sids Not

Max_Damage wrote: »

No doubt that in 20 years time, the Daewoo Matiz (and every other Daewoo for that matter) and Fiat Punto Mk1 will be on this list!

I really really hope not..;)

G Luxel

extinct cars..... check out all the ZV or year regd cars here and thats one reason why certain cars are becoming endangered species in the UK. I would agree with the other replies that there are probably hundreds of cars in sheds, barns and scrapyards in the UK and I guess the same statistics could be applied here.

G Luxel

carchaeologist wrote: »

Dacia denem 69to83 1 left(its a renault12 derivitive)

this car was only on sale for one year around I983 in the UK and only about I00 were ever sold.

carchaeologist

ah! i didnt think it was ever sold in the uk,thought they were made in some far off land and any in the uk would have been personal imports.

carchaeologist

G Luxel wrote: »

extinct cars..... check out all the ZV or year regd cars here and thats one reason why certain cars are becoming endangered species in the UK. I would agree with the other replies that there are probably hundreds of cars in sheds, barns and scrapyards in the UK and I guess the same statistics could be applied here.

yes, we seem to be buying up alot of the uk stuff alright, maybe we should start a thread- what cars have you got in your shed that arent on the road!!

Run_to_da_hills

Theres an old guy still driving an original early 1980ies Lada1300 around Sallynoggin. These cars rotted away in the UK with the salt on the roads while in Ireland they died a death with the scrappage deal.

carchaeologist

I think alot of them were exported to eastern europe aswell, there used to be loads of ladas around back in the day!!

Eric318

Well, 25 years ago when I was restoring my Traction, I NEVER imagined that one day there could be a following for the Citroën Visa, or even the GS.... I still have a hard time coming to terms with this to be honest...

Max_Damage

In that list, where it says the Chrysler Horizon, does that take the Talbot Horizon (which was the same car really) into account?

carchaeologist

Eric318 wrote: »

Well, 25 years ago when I was restoring my Traction, I NEVER imagined that one day there could be a following for the Citroën Visa, or even the GS.... I still have a hard time coming to terms with this to be honest...

yes,its strange how that happens isnt it, nostalgia is a strange beast!!!

carchaeologist

Max_Damage wrote: »

In that list, where it says the Chrysler Horizon, does that take the Talbot Horizon (which was the same car really) into account?

Good point, im not sure,maybe not as they have different names essentially?The talbot horizon was made well into the 80s so i would say there would be alot more of them around?And wasnt the chrysler RWD based on the avenger, and the talbot FWD though they looked outwardly similar?Though i cant be 100% of that:pCan anyone confirm it?

G Luxel

unlike here, in the UK there are a lot of hoarders so u could find somebody with maybe 200 austin allegros and still it could be classed as an endangered species that maybe there are 5 left although unlikely. I read where a guy was ordered by his local council to remove 80 trabants from his garden. I remember travelling through the south of france about I5 years and finding millions of 50s/60s/70s cars in everyday use or seeing fields full of Peugeot 404s and Citroen DS's. Ive no idea what its like now, although I could always check on Google earth:)

Max_Damage

It's not surprising to see only 6 Alfa Romeo Arna's left. I always liked the 'Nissan Cherry' look about them, but the dodgy Alfa engine wasn't up to the challenge at all.

ds20prefecture

Eric318 wrote: »

Well, 25 years ago when I was restoring my Traction, I NEVER imagined that one day there could be a following for the Citroën Visa, or even the GS.... I still have a hard time coming to terms with this to be honest...

The GS is no real surprise - it was a very innovative car in a market of grey sludge. In 1970 it had:
Hydropneumatic, self levelling suspension
All round disc brakes
A featherlight, robust and economical aircooled boxer 4
The lowest drag co-efficient of any car on sale at the time, until the jelly-mold Sierra.
Room for 5 and their luggage in an 800KG body.

Compared to the Ford escort or VW Golf, it was a much more advanced car. The Alfasud was a better all-round competitor and had much nicer engines too, but the GS still has it's own allure.

The Visa is a bit more of a challenge all right. The 2 cylinder models were a practical attempt at replacing the evergreen 2CV and IIRC CAR magazine reckoned the diesel Visa was one of the fastest B-road cars available at any price, as well as one of the more entertaining. The Visa is the basis of the Pug 205, BTW.

Blue850

A friend of mine has recently bought a early Lada 1300 estate, but its been completeley rebadged as a Fiat 124, he said the guy he bought it off also had a FSO 125P which was rebadged as a Fiat 125 and was getting a Fiat twin cam fitted to it.

MercMad

Good point, im not sure,maybe not as they have different names essentially?The talbot horizon was made well into the 80s so i would say there would be alot more of them around?And wasnt the chrysler RWD based on the avenger, and the talbot FWD though they looked outwardly similar?Though i cant be 100% of thatCan anyone confirm it?

...........I would say the records for Talbot and Chrylser are not merged together.

The Horizon was always only a front wheel drive car, but the earlier Sunbeam was rear wheel drive and based upon proven Avenger mechanicals.

carchaeologist

Blue850 wrote: »

A friend of mine has recently bought a early Lada 1300 estate, but its been completeley rebadged as a Fiat 124, he said the guy he bought it off also had a FSO 125P which was rebadged as a Fiat 125 and was getting a Fiat twin cam fitted to it.

I still cant make up my mind if i like this kind of thing being done or not, if you sell this car,are you not selling something that isnt what it says it is?

carchaeologist

I know the lada, fiat, and FSO are practically the same thing, but id be fairly annoyed if id bought a fiat 124 and then found out it was a lada afterwards, whats the story with taxbooks and the like?!

Renotec

Folks,
The Lada and the FSO were completely different beasts. Although both were derived from the FIAT brand Lada or to give them their proper name - SHINGULI VAZ were the first to licence the 124 from FIAT. In fact both the earler and later body revamp of the LADA (124) were sub licensed to many countries. There are some variations still produced new and wait for it they are running on Toyota 30 Engine / Gbox and suspension. France believe it or not has a very strong tradition with LADA. Many a NIVA or Cossack can be found today running around France with a Peugeot Diesel engine fitted.

I also have great admiration for LADA as they ran well when understood. Did you know that they were assembled mostly by women in a factory enviornment that used nothing but 40w electric lighting. I proudly owned both the 1300L & 1600 Super for a long time and we still have a NIVA in the Family. I would rather get stuck in Siberia in a LADA than a new or modern car simply because you could take apart every piece of the LADA and fix it. NO such thing as throw away parts to worry about.

carchaeologist

I agree, the ladas never got the credit they deserved, a friends grandfather had an 89 1300, twas a dinger of a car, if it was still around now i would buy it in a second!bulletproof if looked after!

Renotec

OOOPS! Forgot to mention that not so long ago a good friend mentioned to me that one major reason for the decline in LADA's was not the scrappage schemes or NCT or any of that but... he said sometime in the not to distant past Russian fishing boats were seen loading LADA's on to fishing boats off the south coast of Ireland. Apparently it used to be 7 years of a waiting list to buy a new car over there and the Russians used to haul them all the way back and sell in the open market.
Thats what also happened to all the small tractors that once used to be around. Like Massey 135 / Dexta / etc..
What a conspiracy!!

colm_mcm

as far as I know, all the parts for the Lada Riva were made in the same factory. as in, no buying in of components.

Renotec

You are correct except for the early cars that used the FIAT components left over from Italy which was mostly engines and mechanical stuff. They had to become self sufficient fast as the foreign currency was very rare and they needed to bring in dollars not spend it.

carchaeologist

Renotec wrote: »

OOOPS! Forgot to mention that not so long ago a good friend mentioned to me that one major reason for the decline in LADA's was not the scrappage schemes or NCT or any of that but... he said sometime in the not to distant past Russian fishing boats were seen loading LADA's on to fishing boats off the south coast of Ireland.

Yes, id totally agree with that story,iv heard of them being put onto boats in foynes port in limerick back in the day,what we thought was worthless scrap was making good money for the russian boys!!They all dissapeared fairly quickly!!

Blue850

carchaeologist wrote: »

I know the lada, fiat, and FSO are practically the same thing, but id be fairly annoyed if id bought a fiat 124 and then found out it was a lada afterwards, whats the story with taxbooks and the like?!

He knew he was buying a Lada...
MY uncle had a new Lada 1200 in 1987, great yoke, replaced a rusty Fiat 131

carchaeologist

Ah, the venerable old fiat 131, is there any standard saloons left......i doubt theres a single one with an original irish reg:)...feel free to correct me!!

Blue850

carchaeologist wrote: »

Ah, the venerable old fiat 131, is there any standard saloons left......i doubt theres a single one with an original irish reg:)...feel free to correct me!!

The lad with the Lada estate has a mint 1981 Fiat 131 1300CL, original Kerry reg, he also has a good UK reg 131 1600 and Sport.

carchaeologist

OOH:eek::eek:,sorry to overheat here:p, but id love too see a pic of that 131, it being a kerry reg too, is it ****IN?

Blue850

Carchaeologist, have a look here if you want to talk Fiat 131s or 132s and even the Argenta:D

Irish Fiat 131 site

carchaeologist

Thanks for that blue, must spend awhile looking around there...

Arthur Daley

Max_Damage wrote: »

In that list, where it says the Chrysler Horizon, does that take the Talbot Horizon (which was the same car really) into account?

The way the article specifically mentions the 'Chrysler' Horizon, I take it to mean that later 'Talbot' Horizons built and sold up to 1986 don't count. So the overall population of Crysler Horizons mightn't have been that huge to start with.

That was a right downfall for a car company. You win European car of the year in '76 and then again in '79, and by 1987 you are no longer a car maker.
But you make some vans and campers.

Makes the demise of Austin Rover seem a real drawn out affair.

I wonder what marques are next to die off, and if we will see a rebirth of some great old marques?

Dirty-Old-Man

Mirafiori - the only car I've ever gotten car sick in, something about the suspension

carchaeologist

Dirty-Old-Man wrote: »

Mirafiori - the only car I've ever gotten car sick in, something about the suspension

Well some seventies cars had such horrible seat trim patterns you would nearly vomit just looking at it!!:D

nmacc

Arthur Daley wrote: »

That was a right downfall for a car company. You win European car of the year in '76 and then again in '79, and by 1987 you are no longer a car maker.

Didn't they win Car of the Year in '76 for the Alpine? I had three - not just because I'm a slow learner, but because I needed the other two (total cost £50) for the parts to keep the first one going long enough to find someone foolish enough to buy it.

As for the 131, there's a nice clean one parked outside a house on Walkinstown Avenue; looks to be in daiily use.

N

carchaeologist

nmacc wrote: »

As for the 131, there's a nice clean one parked outside a house on Walkinstown Avenue; looks to be in daiily use.

Any chance of a pic?:D

As for car of the years, seems to me any car that won this award(with a few exceptions) turned out to be either a pile or rubbish or a troublesome and complicated scrapheap.....

Max_Damage

carchaeologist wrote: »

Any chance of a pic?:D

I'll get a picture of it tomorrow hopefully. I pass by it quite regularly when I do my shopping in the Lidl down the road!

carchaeologist

Ta, i dont know why i have such a liking for 131s,suppose because they were such rotters when they were everyday cars.:p

Arthur Daley

carchaeologist wrote: »

Any chance of a pic?:D

As for car of the years, seems to me any car that won this award(with a few exceptions) turned out to be either a pile or rubbish or a troublesome and complicated scrapheap.....

Yeah a couple of years after the Horizon in '79, the Renault 9/11 wins it. No offence to the R9/11 collectors on that other thread, but I still can't figure out how they won COTY. Especially the R9.

carchaeologist

Anyone have a list of the car of the year winners from back in the day? I remember it was in practical classics a year or two ago, but i cant find that issue.Then we can see which were the good and the bad cars...:D

carchaeologist

Ok, i found the list after a bit of searching the interweb, but i started a seperate thread because this thread was getting a bit off topic.