Oscail - Exemptions

kippy

Hi all,
Currently investigating various options for getting a degree.
Am in full time employment in Galway however my employers may possibly be relatively flexible for doing a degree.
I have looked into the Degree in IT from Oscail before:
http://www.oscail.ie/it.php
However the time frame has worried me as I find it quite long to achieve such a qualification.
I already have a 18 month National Certificate in IT support from one of the Institutes of technology, 5-6 years work experience at various levels of IT and a number of professional qualifications (MCSE, CompTIA)
I would be interested to know from anyone who has done that particular course how easy it is to get exemptions from the Diploma level stuff and how many modules per annum it would be feasible to take on. I have about 10-20 hours per week that I could assign to study/course work.
I know this is a toughie to answer but any guidance on the matter would be appreciated and any feedback from those who have done the course is much appreciated.
Thanks and regards,
Kippy

Hamilcar

I have started this Oscail course this year and got exemptions from C1, CT1 & CT2. I got the exemptions as I had completed City & Guilds in telecommunications. I am doing 2 modules this year and 3 next year. For the degree element, I will be doing the 6 modules over 2 years. Hopefully, I will have achieved the degree in 4 years total. I think you could easily complete 3 modules per year in the time you have available. I would warn you though that CT1, CT2 and MS1 modules involve a heavy element of mathematics. If maths is no problem for you then these modules are very doable. National Cert should get you an exemption from C1 and CT1 modules, but you won't know until you apply. Finding the course very interesting and lots of support available.

Best of luck if you go ahead with it.

PS. Am also based in Galway

kippy

Thanks for the reply and the valuable insight.
I would hope to follow a similar time scale as yourself if possible (I assume that's the least possible time you could realistically do it in anyway even with a cert.)
Maths to be honest has never been a big deal for me but its about 5 years since I did anything pure maths related.
Might PM you later on in the year to see how you are getting one.
Kippy

Vcom

The thing about an IT degree from Oscail is that you have to be interested in more in business and management rather than the technology side of things.

The Oscail IT degree should really be called Oscail Business Studies, electronics, mathematics with a smattering of IT Degree.

Computer science is a very very very small part of the course as such and is covered in rushed wikipedia style definitions. It does not really cover any developments in IT over the last 10 years - it will pretend to by mentioning them in introductions to modules.

The C2 programming module is an example of how the difference between what you think you will learn on the course and what actually happens -the module is largely wasted as everyone starts enthusiastically thinking they will be a programmer by the end - but you never get to the point of actually creating a program with a graphical interface- just crude hello world variants in black dos interfaces. By the end everyone is just glad to have the module over and because of the way it is taught you will be in no rush to do any further learning about programming again.
No disk is given with this module and you end up having to type tedious amounts of code with extreme accuracy into a compiler not really knowing what it is supposed to represent. For some reason they have stuck with the C programming language when Java would is more English-like and intuitive.

The CA at the degree level of computing cover databases and is necessary.

The HS modules are interesting if you have an interest in psychology. HS1 is identical to the psychology section of a business studies course/certificate... Corporate culture, group motivation, stress etc. HS2 is more of the same with a greater emphasis on ergonomics -though the course writer does not come across as having a background in computers or interface design and stretches to make any links between computers and ergonomics at all. There is a bizarre tangent for 4 chapters into safety in the work place-not safety legislation or current legal requirements just stuff about how we must all think about safety to avoid accidents.


HSA initially looks good as there is no exam -but you quickly learn that it is the most hated of modules. You will be marked on assignments and on contribution to online discussions-- all of which concern themselves with the theology and navel gazing philosophy of IT...you will spend hours and hours contributing to discussions on the VLE trying to gain points from a tutor. You will spend further hours and hours having to read the tedious contributions of 30 other students and faming interest in them to gain points from your tutor.

In essence all discussion will hinge on one thing………. what it will be like when everyone has a computer and what effect it will have on society? You and everyone else doing the HSA module will know that this is a discussion that is being held 10 years too late -as everyone already has a computer, but you cannot say this. This module has a very high attrition rate and this may affect you as you have to work in groups of 4 or 5 and when someone drops out of the course everyone else is left to carry the can and the workload. It is also very time consuming an in all cases guarantees that it take 3 years to complete the 6 degree modules.

It is a fact that you can only complete the 6 degree modules in 2 years if you work for example as a security guard doing night shift in a library and can study at work
……….ALSO it would help if you live at home with your mother and have no family commitments.

MS1 is the basic quantitative maths module found in all IT courses and as such is necessary.

MS2 is accountancy maths - things like simulating stock levels and managing them and matrices. It may of interest to people working in logistics or delivery management for a large courier or distributor- it is not an easy module and is not made easier by the fact that it fails to show where you might use alot of the maths.


MSA is all about being a CIO with no technical knowledge, how to get the position and what to say to hold onto it as long as possible without being found out. Assignment 1 is an extremely tedious affair which takes weeks and weeks -where you have to Google 40(yes 40!!!) companies’ websites on a given list and write 200 words describing each what each of them does there is also two essay on CIO's to research and write. However there are two good assignments: 1 all about ERP and the other about doing a business plan... which may be on interest if you want set up your own business (and which is apparently compulsory HEA content for all degrees in Ireland now). However ERP is not covered in the module and you are left to your own devices to research the topic so as to complete the assignment

The CT modules cover all the basics. CT1 and CT2 physics and electrical science. These can be a struggle for most people without an electronics background -with topics such as phase delay of sine waves in radians, Fourier analysis, time domain analysis. While this can be a bit of pain it is necessary for a good first principle understanding of networks.

There is however sometimes a tendency to overstep the mark on occasion and go into pure electronic engineering and an obvious lack of focus in determining the difference between what an IT person does and what a electronic engineer does.

For instance there is an assumption that in all IT departments there is a pot of molten sand always on the boil so that you can make your own IT equipment with a very tiny solder iron rather buy anything in. One example of this is you will spend a week of your life studying how a JK flip-flop circuit is built and works. Such diversions to what most people consider to be off topic is likely the result of the smaller financial resources available to Oscail as opposed to say the OU and the resultant lack of drive to be cutting edge in the topics covered.

CTA is well written but has an over emphasis on sub layer 1 topics to the detriment of layer 2 protocols which are only briefly covered along with a rushed treatment of networking.

In this module you learn that there are what I can only describe as are tiny blue Smurfs sitting up on top of electrons in all network cables and that they wave flags at each other using sublayer 1 coding techniques – you will then learn to use probability mathematics to work out how reliable their flag waving is. You will have to mathematically work out how to code the flag waving into the most efficient way to save the arms of the poor little Smurfs .
By the end of the module you will have realised that it may be difficult to actually apply any of what you have spent months learning- if you would like to change the coding at sublayer 1 -you woulld have to fly out to China with your newly acquired knowledge and have a chat with who ever made your networking equipment and argue your case

In general about the Oscail IT degree -You may have seen reference to problems with administration in Oscail on other posts on Boards.ie – these have now being largely solved. There is now better people skills and administration skills apparent and less complaints from students- for a while it really a bad joke version of the OU-which lost them some or perhaps a lot of students.

The course is not that innovative or update when compared with the OU offerings and still hangers towards its 1980's roots where civil servants would use it to get a degree to manage tenders for IT tenders/contracts rather have to train to be the tech resources for their departments themselves.

The programme also suffers from a excessively large programme board - the result is a dilution of responsibly and a lack of any major leadership and innovation when compared to a zealous veal that would be more present if the board all consisted of a smaller group more focused group of academics with some experience of what it is like to work in the IT department since windows 95 or the NT server was introduced.


If I were to put an analogy on the signing up for the Oscail Degree – it is like signing up for a degree in journalism only to discover that you spend 4 years solely studying the latin orgin of all English words. For a while you will congratulate yourself on you increased vocabulary.

After you complete it though you will then spend the rest of your life wondering “surely there must have been more stuff we should have covered… I know nothing about computers????”

kippy

Vcom,
Cheers for taking the time to write that out in so much detail.
I will go over it fully later.
In all honestly, like most IT degrees out there I wasnt expecting it to be of much help to me in a practical way. Luckily the cert I did coupled with a few professional qualifications and a good few years work experience have given me a lot of practical knowledge. This, as the say, is just a piece of paper, but one which may be of beneifit to me financially at some stage.
Kippy

Vcom

kippy wrote: »

Vcom,
Cheers for taking the time to write that out in so much detail.
I will go over it fully later.
In all honestly, like most IT degrees out there I wasnt expecting it to be of much help to me in a practical way. Luckily the cert I did coupled with a few professional qualifications and a good few years work experience have given me a lot of practical knowledge. This, as the say, is just a piece of paper, but one which may be of beneifit to me financially at some stage.
Kippy

It great that you have experience in IT already-as to be honest there is no way you could ever talk your way into a graduate position in IT with the Oscail Degree. You would simply make a fool out of yourself at the interview stage.
The problem is that you don't actually learn anything in detail but spend your time getting sidetracked into allsorts of irrelevant tangents:

AFTER THE COURSE- you cannot apply for software engineering jobs because you do not have the programming skills-you will not even have seen what a modern software complier suite look like. In the modern sense of the word (aka the last 15 years) you CANNOT call yourself a "programmer".
Again because computer systems or architecture are not covered in the course you will CANNOT get work in the system administration or support areas of IT- You will not (for example) even know what a Unix box is- not to mind how you would start supporting it!!!
Perhaps one thing the course is suitable for is; if you happen to be an Electronic engineer involved in the manufacture of networking hardware and want to brush up on how to binary 1 and 0 onto a layer 1 electrical signal.

However again in terms of getting work as an actual Network infrastructure support engineer the course only pays lip service to the skills needed to work in supporting Ethernet or any layer 2.3,4 technology- and you are far more likely to learn a lot more from a quick read of wikipedia.

If you work in an IT department that does not have any computers then this course is suitable for you.
Otherwise you should seriously consider the OU. I know they are more expensive but it is far more flexible in terms of choice. Choice in what area you study -and when you study. The ou are trying out sequential rather than simultaneous modules during the year so that you could do 10 hours study per week for the entire year rather than 20 hours for 26 weeks of it like Oscail.

Also to get an honours degree from Oscail you need to take a minimum of 2 modules a year at degree stage. Initially this sounds straight forward but if you move job, house or have child during a degree level year you will have a major problem getting the time to do the 2 modules at the same time- you could easily fall behind and end up with a pass 3rd Degree.

The OU has a straight policy of 8 years to complete your degree. At 360 points -60 points a year means that if you are doing a 60 point module you don’t have your attention split onto 2 unrelated modules. To clarify this point – if you sit down at your desk and reach to select the stuff you are going to study – in Oscail you will reach in a fire brigade way to study the module you are most behind with whereas in the OU you will be doing just the one module and can continue from where you last left off.

Also you should consider the fact that Oscail have dramatically reduced the number of support centres in the last 7 years due to declining student numbers. Support centres are now only in Cork and Dublin. Completion of any assignment without attending a tutorial is next to impossible and is therefore compulsory if you wish to get your degree. The timetable for these tutorials will vary randomly during the year and can be changed at the drop of a hat - so don’t make any plans to attend Six Nations matches etc.

Finally if you don’t like the areas you are studying with the OU –you can switch possibly avoiding being divorced by your long suffering spouse - whereas the Oscail degree you have to take what you are given. If you are not extremely interested in what you are doing your degree in you will be like a bear with a sore head for 7 years and not easy to live with. Choose your degree AND WHERE YOU GET IT carefully !!!!!

Hamilcar

Vcom wrote: »

Completion of any assignment without attending a tutorial is next to impossible and is therefore compulsory if you wish to get your degree.

Phew! I hope this is not the message of encouragement for doing the Oscail degree. If it is, I'd hate to see the discouraging one!

The diploma level assignments are very possible without attending any tutorials. In any event Powerpoint presentations of the tutorials are sent to the class. As I said before, the modules involving maths are the only ones that might trip you up, but you can always do the maths foundation module to bring you up to speed. Regarding the degree itself. Of course the employer knows that having the degree, doesn't make you a software engineer etc, but it does show you had the discipline to work and study for a long period to obtain the qualification, even moreso while holding down a fulltime job.

kippy

Right lads,
Just to let you both know, I got accepted onto the MSC today. (Wasnt expecting not to to be honest).
Going to ring them with this query tomorrow, but at what stage to I apply for the exemptions (ie before I register and pay for the modules or after)?
Kippy

kippy

I have arranged a call with the student advisor next week to discuss exemptions.
I d love to get straight into the degree stage. Does anyone know of anyone who managed to get straight into the degree with a certificate(distinction), five years of experience in the sector and a number of Microsoft and Comptia exams behind them?

Vcom

kippy wrote: »

I have arranged a call with the student advisor next week to discuss exemptions.
I d love to get straight into the degree stage. Does anyone know of anyone who managed to get straight into the degree with a certificate(distinction), five years of experience in the sector and a number of Microsoft and Comptia exams behind them?

Hi kippy,

Just wondering how you got on in terms of getting exemptions?

I would say that, as with all third level courses, it is unlikely that work experience would be taken into account in terms of getting exemptions for undergraduate courses- it would of course be of greater importance say if you were trying to get into an MBA course as a post graduate.

In terms of vendor certs the only place these count towards a third level qualification is for Foundation level degree qualifications at the Open University.

Your Cert in IT support will probably get you some exemptions in directly related modules such as C1 & CT1 .....and possibly MS1-if you can show that the mathematics content of your IT Support cert course exceeded by a large amount a Leaving Cert honours maths standard ...and would be on a par with the 1st or 2nd year University maths standard.

BTW sorry for delay in replying- been away from the boards.ie website for a while. (I had been looking into options for burger flipping courses that i could do to earn some money...to pay back all that money i wasted on archaic Oscail IT courses;))

Interestingly, even though i completed the Oscail IT course a couple of years ago, a friend of mine recently classed my knowledge of basic IT infrastructure as "hopeless" and equivalent to someone working in the Information Technology industry circa 1982.:(

kippy

Vcom wrote: »

Hi kippy,

Just wondering how you got on in terms of getting exemptions?

I would say that, as with all third level courses, it is unlikely that work experience would be taken into account in terms of getting exemptions for undergraduate courses- it would of course be of greater importance say if you were trying to get into an MBA course as a post graduate.

In terms of vendor certs the only place these count towards a third level qualification is for Foundation level degree qualifications at the Open University.

Your Cert in IT support will probably get you some exemptions in directly related modules such as C1 & CT1 .....and possibly MS1-if you can show that the mathematics content of your IT Support cert course exceeded by a large amount a Leaving Cert honours maths standard ...and would be on a par with the 1st or 2nd year University maths standard.

BTW sorry for delay in replying- been away from the boards.ie website for a while. (I had been looking into options for burger flipping courses that i could do to earn some money...to pay back all that money i wasted on archaic Oscail IT courses;))

Interestingly, even though i completed the Oscail IT course a couple of years ago, a friend of mine recently classed my knowledge of basic IT infrastructure as "hopeless" and equivalent to someone working in the Information Technology industry circa 1982.:(

Hey vCom, I hadnt seen this reply so sorry for the late response.
As of today I still dont know if I got the exemptions. I took a chance and applied for 4 exemptions which is as many as I think I should get after doing a Cert. Still leaves me with two years for the Diploma.
While I appreciate your comments on the content (its something which I am aware of) it is the only viable option I have to get a diploma. After the diploma I may go for a degree in a different field depending on how I feel.
Thankfully I have enough real world experience and vendor certs to know that what I learn here will be of absolutely no relevance to my work. But this piece of paper is worth take home pay to me hence my need to do it.
Will let you know how the exemption application goes, should know this week.
Kippy

Vcom

kippy wrote: »

Hey vCom, I hadnt seen this reply so sorry for the late response.
As of today I still dont know if I got the exemptions. I took a chance and applied for 4 exemptions which is as many as I think I should get after doing a Cert. Still leaves me with two years for the Diploma.
While I appreciate your comments on the content (its something which I am aware of) it is the only viable option I have to get a diploma. After the diploma I may go for a degree in a different field depending on how I feel.
Thankfully I have enough real world experience and vendor certs to know that what I learn here will be of absolutely no relevance to my work. But this piece of paper is worth take home pay to me hence my need to do it.
Will let you know how the exemption application goes, should know this week.
Kippy

Well actually Kippy- if you chose an open degree with the OU you might be able to finish your honours degree in about 3 years. An open degree is like the horizons option thingy with UCD- you chose options and modules that interest you and combine them with study you have already done and as long as you have completed 360 points worth of study you can claim you degree. About halve of all OU students are doing open degrees rather than named degrees-it has advantages in allowing you to get full credit for previous study and chosing areas that interest you most. I am not a salesperson for the OU or anything...there are lots of things i don't like about the OU ..especially their email and virtual learning enviroment "firstclass". (Oscail's Moodle beats its hands down- however in the OU system it is the course writers who have to answer all the students queries... so you are getting stuff straight from the horses mouth...and they will put their hands up when they get something wrong. ) However the OU do not really advertise how their open degree thing works at all and it might well be worth your while giving one of their student advisors in Dublin a ring to have a chat and look at your options. The open degree option is certianly something to cosider- see my other post on the topic of OU versus Oscail
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055320288

Oh! another thing -with the OU you will not have to attend their tutorials- the OU believe that the notes should be so well written and with the virtual contact in firstclass so good that those people who are able to attend course tutorials should not attain any extra benefit over those who can't. I been to a few OU tutorials to test this out and sure enough nothing of any course value is dicussed to any extent at them- they are just kind of a social thing - where you get to meet your tutor in person and dicuss general study methods etc and nothing much that is course specific.

Vcom

kippy

Just an udpate.
I got 4 modules exempted from the Diploma level.
Will be doing 2 per year and have a diploma in two years. After that I will review my options again.
Thanks for all the advice, I am sure I will be back to this post again with updates.
Kippy

agibbons

Hi Kippy, what module exemptions did they give you in the end?

btw, I think you are correct in choosing Dublin City University over the Open University. DCU is very well regarded by industry, especially their IT degrees.


Tony.

kippy

Hi Tony,
Just an update. Apologies for the late reply.
I got exemptions in C1,C2,MS1,and CT1.


Doing two modules this year and 2 next year. I am hearing and seeing what vCom has already said up above. I will almost definetly NOT be continuing to degree level with this specific form of learning. I'll look into the OU this time next year.
Kippy

Agent J

I realise i'm a little late to this thread but it certainly gives me some food for thought.

I'd just finished my 1st year with Oscail IT and always started with allowing myself the consideration of jumping ship at the diploma level.

I did the 4 1st level modules in the diploma section this year and got between a 2-2 and 1st in all subjects. I could have done better but didnt attend the tutorials for the most part(Yes silly i know). I have a full time job and my sanity was possibly called into question

The only subject which i really wanted to tear my hair out and shove it down who ever wrote the material throat was HS1 which i felt was nothing more then self referencial wishy-washy BS.

I plan to finish out the diploma level and at current speed i should be finished next year and then review my options.

I guess im looking to know what the difficulty curve is from the 2nd level diploma stuff onwards. I have a bit of background in IT stuff hence having a bit of a grounding for it. In other words if i can handle 4 modules at level one and do pretty ok out of it, how long can i keep that up before hit a change in the difficultly curve?

kippy

Agent J wrote: »

I realise i'm a little late to this thread but it certainly gives me some food for thought.

I'd just finished my 1st year with Oscail IT and always started with allowing myself the consideration of jumping ship at the diploma level.

I did the 4 1st level modules in the diploma section this year and got between a 2-2 and 1st in all subjects. I could have done better but didnt attend the tutorials for the most part(Yes silly i know). I have a full time job and my sanity was possibly called into question

The only subject which i really wanted to tear my hair out and shove it down who ever wrote the material throat was HS1 which i felt was nothing more then self referencial wishy-washy BS.

I plan to finish out the diploma level and at current speed i should be finished next year and then review my options.

I guess im looking to know what the difficulty curve is from the 2nd level diploma stuff onwards. I have a bit of background in IT stuff hence having a bit of a grounding for it. In other words if i can handle 4 modules at level one and do pretty ok out of it, how long can i keep that up before hit a change in the difficultly curve?

Hey Agent J,
Well done with your results, thats excellent for four modules. I did two and found it tough enough, that said I didnt put a huge amount of effort in and just managed the pass.

Cant help you with your query but agree 100% on HS1. Nonsense.
I amnt looking forward to HS2 but apparently its not as obscure. Time will tell. I have that and MS2 this year.
Best of luck

Agent J

kippy wrote: »

Hey Agent J,
Well done with your results, thats excellent for four modules. I did two and found it tough enough, that said I didnt put a huge amount of effort in and just managed the pass.

Cant help you with your query but agree 100% on HS1. Nonsense.
I amnt looking forward to HS2 but apparently its not as obscure. Time will tell. I have that and MS2 this year.
Best of luck

Same to you. I've got both those modules as well. Im aiming for a clean sweep again of the 2nd year modules.

I've heard the same thing about HS2. Hope its true because to be honest i felt like i wasted so much time on those assignments. I got so annoyed by the time the 3rd one came around i litereal just wrote for 2 hours only and got the best mark out of all the assignments.

kippy

Agent J wrote: »

Same to you. I've got both those modules as well. Im aiming for a clean sweep again of the 2nd year modules.

I've heard the same thing about HS2. Hope its true because to be honest i felt like i wasted so much time on those assignments. I got so annoyed by the time the 3rd one came around i litereal just wrote for 2 hours only and got the best mark out of all the assignments.

I didnt actually submit a third one, which is why I barely passed the module.
Lets hope its that bit more clear this time around and not as time consuming.