Irish Skeptics as viewed from Atheist.ie

Yossie

Hi folks,

An interesting perspective on ourselves, from the good folks at atheist.ie (see link below). It hasn't been my experience that ISS are full of right-winger and corporate suits. Where has the PR gone wrong? Surely ourselves and Atheist.ie should be naturally close allies?

http://www.atheist.ie/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=809&highlight=skeptics

Myksyk

Fairly old thread that I saw at the time of its writing. Didn't think there was much to comment on to be honest. I can guarantee we're not right wing corporatists . . . where did that come out of?!!

pH

Two points

I'm sure that you could construe the situation and a bunch on conservative doctors in suits fighting the new age liberals with their holistic medicines if you wanted - and I can see how some folks could buy that - I'm afraid that's just the way it is.

Secondly I agree with the ISS decision to stay well clear of religion, even though it could be argued that religious skepticism is within their remit. You just don't want to end up in religious fights, it's pointless, no ones ever going to win and it's just more muck for those who have grievances with ISS to throw around.

Anyone debating with an ISS member in a public forum (say the Late Late) would throw any statements that ISS made about religion in the debater's face, and there's no way a meaningful debate on issues that ISS members want to address could happen in that context.

Yossie

I could construe that situation, which is a shame since it’s far from the truth about ISS. It’s a situation that would be resolved upon attending one of the ISS meeting (or reading the mag), so I would encourage those on atheist.ie who reject all other forms of irrationality, not just god, to come along to a meeting sometime. Over the few years that I’ve been an ISS member I’ve been impressed by the universally high standard of the ISS talks and equally impressed by the fair and balanced (and dare I say liberal) tone which is normally taken - well worth the membership fee too! (Like all groups, there are one or two people who love the sound of their own voice.;))

On your second point: I not aware that ISS have made a decision to “stay clear of religion”, although I agree it would be a mistake to make it our primary focus.

I wouldn’t be happy with religion been given a privileged, untouchable position by ISS. I’m not overly comfortable with how it’s dealt with on the website and I’ve made these arguments before in a debate with ISAW here
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=259388. Essentially, god is such a key component, and justification of the most strongly held irrational beliefs, that to completely ignore the part it plays in irrational beliefs would be silly.

There might be something to the point made by someone on atheist.ie that they suspect there are some religious members of ISS. But as skeptics we shouldn’t be arbitrarily selectively skeptical about issues, while at the same time we can still avoid the worst of the pointless religious fights pH refers to.

pH

Yossie wrote: »

On your second point: I not aware that ISS have made a decision to “stay clear of religion”, although I agree it would be a mistake to make it our primary focus.

I suppose you could debate my choice of words "stay clear", but here's the relevant bit of the ISS website.

http://www.irishskeptics.net/?page_id=101 wrote:

Are Skeptics Anti-Religious?

No. People are sometimes concerned that skeptics are, by definition, anti-religious. This is not the case.

There are many skeptics who have religious beliefs and who distinguish clearly between questions concerning the material world (the realm of science), and a non-material world in which they believe and for which there is no physical evidence. Such belief is a matter of choice or faith and the majority of skeptics accept and respect this.

There are however, areas of overlap. If claims are made in the name of religion that concern physical phenomena and that can be tested, skeptics may engage in such testing. For example, claims of statues moving or of miraculous appearances or cures may be challenged.

So I take that to mean yes they'd engage in claims about religious phenomena (weeping/moving statues etc) but they are "staying clear" of the "does god exist atheist/agnostic/theist debate", rightly so in my opinion as a position of "we're skeptics and you're all delusional about God" would not help when entering into debates about homoeopathy, crystals or ESP.

Tim Robbins

I have gone to quite a few talks run by the ISS.
Some feedback which I would hope to be constructive
1. There seems to be a massive bend to psychology. I appreciate it was set up by pyschologists, but I would think the ISS wouldn't have such a statistically high number of pyschologists.
2. The ISS rarely use the media. Frequently many media outlets, newstalk, Irish Times etc have sections with what's going on in the city. I have never heard about the skeptics in any media edifice. That includes the Annual skeptics conference yeld in Dublin last year. One not about one or two of the inner members as a press officer(s).
3. Give a discount to students (not that I am one, but it would be a good way of getting more people from the universities etc. along).
4. It might be a good idea to survey members and ask them how they found out by the skeptics society. I would imagine most people found out through a pyschologist friend. Myself, I found out through boards.ie. Anyway it would give an indication as to how people are finding out about the ISS and not finding out about the ISS.
5. If it is meant to be a club, should it not be a bit more social. If you join up as member, whose job is it to introduce to a few people or welcome you.
Any of the talks I go to it just seems the only people who know each others names are a few pyschologists who presumably know each other through their work.
6. As for the religion thing, the current stance is spot on. It's a big enough job to tackle psuedo Science. Having a go at belief systems which help people deal with death, I think is just too much for most people. The are other groups e.g. the irish humanist society which deal with securalisation.