Torrents & DVD Ripping?

JayC5

Why were the two threads concerning torrents & DVD ripping locked? Both of these are used for legal purposes also (I for one use them legally myself) ?

If I own a movie on DVD surely I'm entitled to rip it to avi format for personal use & there are also many legal downloads that utilise torrent technology for eg - http://www.archive.org/index.php

Discussing how to use legal software is hardly open to censorship. I don't understand why these conversations were banned - it doesn't seem fair play?

aidan_walsh

JayC5 wrote:

If I own a movie on DVD surely I'm entitled to rip it to avi format for personal use

A popular misconception, but incorrect none the less. Ripping a DVD that you didn't create yourself involves circumventing copy protection that is written into the DVD format specifications.

Sherifu

JayC5 wrote: »

I don't understand why these conversations were banned - it doesn't seem fair play?

It's against the forum charter, leaves boards open to prosecution and is illegal.

JayC5

aidan_walsh wrote: »

A popular misconception, but incorrect none the less. Ripping a DVD that you didn't create yourself involves circumventing copy protection that is written into the DVD format specifications.

So you never made a mix tape on cassette then either? Of taped films off the TV....?

mickoneill30

aidan_walsh wrote: »

Ripping a DVD that you didn't create yourself involves circumventing copy protection that is written into the DVD format specifications.

To stir a bit what if I create a DVD with no copy protection (like, say my wedding video) and give it to JayC5?

aidan_walsh

Yes, but I didn't have to ask on the internet how to.

Anyway, taping movies off the television is slightly different as it is more likely to be deemed fair use as timeshifting, unless proven to be used for distribution (like seeding a file on BitTorrent).

aidan_walsh

mickoneill30 wrote: »

To stir a bit what if I create a DVD with no copy protection (like, say my wedding video) and give it to JayC5?

You own the content and so are entitled to distribute it as you wish. However, if JayC5 were to rip the DVD and share it with others, you have the right to claim copyright infringement if you wish. Alternatively, you can effectively waive those rights by doing nothing about it.

Khannie

Best to get this done out in the open.....

JayC5 wrote: »

If I own a movie on DVD surely I'm entitled to rip it to avi format for personal

As aidan pointed out, to the best of our (mods) knowledge it's actually not legal for you to do that.

JayC5 wrote: »

Discussing how to use legal software is hardly open to censorship. I don't understand why these conversations were banned - it doesn't seem fair play?

Honestly, personally, it seems perfectly reasonable to me that I should be able to back up a dvd or game or whatever that I've bought and paid good money for but it seems that the law isn't on my side.

mickoneill30 wrote: »

To stir a bit what if I create a DVD with no copy protection (like, say my wedding video) and give it to JayC5?

Of course this is legal (assuming you own copyright on the video) but it's an edge case. The reality is that dvd backup is mostly used for copyright infringement (let's not kid around here folks) and boards.ie can't be seen to promote / condone / etc. that practice.

I'm sure it seems harsh as a user of the board but you should be aware that boards.ie has had a number of legal threats leveled at it over the past few months. This is pre-emptive avoidance of legal trouble really.


edit: The torrents one was a no-brainer. The guy said s/he was downloading a movie. Sure, there's /some/ chance that it was legal content, but the reality is that legal movies make up a tiny tiny percentage of the total number of movies available by torrent and we're all well aware of it. If it's reasonable to infer copyright infringement then I'm going to close the thread.

Anti

in b4 lock

irlrobins

No reason to lock this imo.

Khannie

irlrobins wrote: »

No reason to lock this imo.

Totally agree. Best to be open about these things. We're all users of this forum at the end of the day.

Anti

Well... I'm shocked. Usually threads abotu this type of malarky get locked very quick. But i agree, having a thread to clear the air around the romours is a great idea.

Beelzebub

CD ripping is now illegal in Britain.

Ok let me rephrase/correct that.

Under current UK copyright law CD ripping is illegal but the Government may be about to change that.
http://www.tech.co.uk/gadgets/portable-audio/digital-audio-players/news/go-ahead-rip-as-many-cds-as-you-like?articleid=1206082924

Makaveli

Link?

Beelzebub

Makaveli wrote: »

Link?

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080108-uk-wants-to-make-cd-rips-legal-at-last.html

AlmightyCushion

Beelzebub wrote: »

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080108-uk-wants-to-make-cd-rips-legal-at-last.html

The BBC notes, however, that the Association of Independent Music—a group one might expect to be more sympathetic to consumer concerns—isn't pleased. The group would rather see copyright holders paid when a copy is made, even if it's for moving to an iPod.

WTF? I've already paid for the thing once, I'm not gonna pay for the thing again just because I want to listen to it on my mp3 player. They probably want to charge people extra each time your ringtone goes off as you are broadcasting it to a crowd.

astrofool

All these guilds, unions and associations are braindead in their own way, and end up going too far to protect their own vested interests. If they made copying for personal use legal, then there would be plenty of scope to make money by allowing high quality downloadable music which can be easily burnt to cd for the car, or put on an MP3 player, or use the payment code to access the music video/discography/bonus feature online, but they're too short sighted to see that, and want to try and implement some crazy payment system into everything of which there is 0 infrastructure to back it up.

Underpants
???????
Money

JayC5

aidan_walsh wrote: »

Yes, but I didn't have to ask on the internet how to.

Anyway, taping movies off the television is slightly different as it is more likely to be deemed fair use as timeshifting, unless proven to be used for distribution (like seeding a file on BitTorrent).

I'd just like to point out that the guy who asked about ripping DVDs did have to ask about it on the internet - He specifically stated that he wanted to take multiple clips from DVDs to make a collage (perhaps an educational project..?!) to edit in Windows movie maker - now anyone who nows anything about ripping DVDs knows that to convert to this specific file type he needs to use the same software & procedure regardless of the DVD being a copy protected one or uncopyrighted & security free. (you can turn off the boards alarm bells, I haven't revealed how to do that in my previous sentence - dont worry!)

Therefore with all due respect I think it's completely legal to discuss this & would not stand up in court not alone make it there in the first place as an offence.

Clips and edits of movies are scattered around the net on youtube and various other sites, trailers and teasers etc and theres not a word about it.

I understand boards are bound by sponsors etc to police certain topics but at what point is our freedom of speech undermined - If Dixons sold me a TV do they have the jurisdiction to tell me what to watch on it? I think not.

For eg. would a discussion about guns be banned for here? They are used for both legal and illegal acitivities, crime & hunting, oh and also by security forces - so, discussions about how to operate, repair, maintain or use guns are not an offense I take it? The offense surely lies with how the owner chooses to use said gun & not with the item itself - the same can be said of torrent & ripping software. I think I've made a valid point.

I invite people to offer their opinions here also, perhaps start a poll - I think its a fair discussion & in no way breaches any regualtions surely?

:cool:

Khannie

I don't have time to reply right now (meeting in 6 minutes), but I will get back to you. You raise a point that someone was going to raise at some point and it's good to discuss these things in an open manner.

Khannie

JayC5 wrote: »

I'd just like to point out that the guy who asked about ripping DVDs did have to ask about it on the internet

I don't see how that's important tbh. If he wants to ask on boards.ie he's bound by the rules of boards.ie.

JayC5 wrote: »

- He specifically stated that he wanted to take multiple clips from DVDs to make a collage

And I thought it reasonably likely that this would involve copyright infringement, so I closed the thread.

JayC5 wrote: »

(perhaps an educational project..?!)

Perhaps. Not really that relevant. Do you honestly believe that the guy / girl wasn't going to infringe copyright in some way? I don't. I don't think s/he's a bootlegger flogging dvd's at the local sunday market, but the reality is that s/he was probably (in my estimation) going to infringe on copyright somewhere. Boards.ie can't be seen to condone or promote that.

This is separate from the argument that one should be legally allowed to rip dvd's that they own themselves. I think there's some movement going on on this point so I wont say any more right now.

JayC5 wrote: »

now anyone who nows anything about ripping DVDs knows that to convert to this specific file type he needs to use the same software & procedure regardless of the DVD being a copy protected one or uncopyrighted & security free.

That's wrong in fact. Unencrypted .vob files are just mpeg streams so there's no breaking of copy protection algorithms going on. You wouldn't need to use a tool that circumvents that copy protection. You _could_ still use them, but you're not required to.

JayC5 wrote: »

Therefore with all due respect I think it's completely legal to discuss this & would not stand up in court not alone make it there in the first place as an offence.

Who's going to go to court to stand up for it? Me? Guess again. I've better things to be doing. Who's going to pay the legal fees? etc. etc.

On whether it would make it to court: Boards.ie is a very publicly visible place. If there was a policy of allowing discussion of how to be a warez monkey on here, I honestly strongly believe that it would end up in court.

The best policy here is to just avoid legal confrontation. It's free to do that.

JayC5 wrote: »

Clips and edits of movies are scattered around the net on youtube and various other sites, trailers and teasers etc and theres not a word about it.

Wrong again. You stick up a clip about star trek on youtube and see if you get a slap on the wrist. I stuck up a (hillarious ) clip from the simpsons and it was removed and I got a warning for it.

Trailers and teasers are another thing. The film companies want them spread around and seen by as many as possible.

JayC5 wrote: »

I understand boards are bound by sponsors etc to police certain topics but at what point is our freedom of speech undermined

It's nothing to do with sponsors (at least not that I'm aware). There is no freedom of speech on boards. Have a look at the sticky at the top of this forum in relation to a certain music company. You're not allowed to discuss them because they threatened legal action. There are other forums with similar companys having leveled legal threats (the self defence / martial arts forum for example). What we're trying to do here is prevent piracy. If it can be reasonably inferred that someone is going to break the law, we're going to close and/or delete that thread.

JayC5 wrote: »

For eg. would a discussion about guns be banned for here? They are used for both legal and illegal acitivities, crime & hunting, oh and also by security forces - so, discussions about how to operate, repair, maintain or use guns are not an offense I take it? The offense surely lies with how the owner chooses to use said gun & not with the item itself - the same can be said of torrent & ripping software. I think I've made a valid point.

Your point is based on there being freedom of speech. If that were the case we could all discuss the best ways to warez monkey games and videos to our hearts content. That's not the case. I'm bound by these rules like the rest of you. I use this forum like everyone else. I don't moderate it for the craic. For the most part it's not the best of fun being a moderator.

Torrents are not really used very often for legal purposes these days. You honestly can't expect me to believe that every single torrent related thread on here is there because people wanted to download linux distros etc. To be fair, the vast majority of people coming on here looking for help with torrents get nailed on downloading copyrighted material and we end up closing the thread.

"I downloaded a film....etc.". You really think I should assume that it was a freely available film? How likely do you think that is? I'd guess < 1% likely.

JayC5 wrote: »

I invite people to offer their opinions here also, perhaps start a poll - I think its a fair discussion & in no way breaches any regualtions surely?

Of course it's a fair discussion. There's no regulation saying we can't discuss things. I think it's really healthy. A poll isn't really very relevant though.

Cato

Copyright and royalties are a bloody awkward subject which often comes down to opinions or in legal terms "loopholes", i for one am of the thought that you are able to backup dvd or any media you have bought with your hard earned money.

something else i would like to mention as well but is propbably a bit of topic, it really annoys me when i pay full price for a DVD i expect to be getting a full polished product, i feel paying this sort of cash should be enough to not have to sit through 10 minutes of ads before the film reaches the menu, they disable the menu button so you cant skip only fast forward, but thats not the point, even if you could skip those ads, i still think they shouldent be there!

JayC5

Ok Khannie, I acknowledge your points on ripping DVDs even tho I still disagree with the ban. However, in relation to torrents I think it's a bit harsh. For example, www.publicdomaintorrents.com - I know many that use this "legal" site to download movies that are in the public domain - my point was that torrent software has many uses - I personally use Bitcomet to download any file whatsoever from the net regardless of it's type. This media induced suspicion around "torrents" has turned it into some sort of buzz word thats usually bandied about by people who know nothing about torrents or anything torrent linked.

What did we have before torrents..? Oh yeah I remember - wasn't it devil worshipping incantations found buried within the mix of Heavy Metal music when played in reverse. Pfffft! Then we had Manson, Eminem & fireworks & hoodies etc all scaremongering by people who surfed these controversial statements for their own sneaky purpose - usually attempting to garner attention in the political arena.

On a lighter note i'll make a point that will set me up to be shot down in a hail of wrath - I'm not too sympathetic to the movie/music industry for receiving a backlash courtesy of the common man & his trusty internet connection. For too long have we been exploited and ripped off by the same corporates that mark their wealth in billions. They line the pockets of artists such as Robbie Williams & REM with upwards of 80 million dollar deals and then complain of losses. It would make more sense to cut back on what they pay out to these grossly over wealthy musical acts/film stars to offer a better deal to the man on the street. After all, it was our collective humble dollar/euro/pound etc that bought their houses in beverly hills & paid for the lavish lifestyles wasn't it!

Anyway, I realise that ultimately it's a losing battle and boards hold the cleaver so I submit to the corporate wily ways of our world for now.....

PogMoThoin

JayC5 wrote: »

On a lighter note i'll make a point that will set me up to be shot down in a hail of wrath - I'm not too sympathetic to the movie/music industry for receiving a backlash courtesy of the common man & his trusty internet connection. For too long have we been exploited and ripped off by the same corporates that mark their wealth in billions. They line the pockets of artists such as Robbie Williams & REM with upwards of 80 million dollar deals and then complain of losses. It would make more sense to cut back on what they pay out to these grossly over wealthy musical acts/film stars to offer a better deal to the man on the street. After all, it was our collective humble dollar/euro/pound etc that bought their houses in beverly hills & paid for the lavish lifestyles wasn't it!

+1
I've no sympathy for the music/film industry either, they've been shooting themselves in the foot for years. Radiohead have reported that they (the artists) made more money from their latest album, than they have on all their other albums put together, which they offered for download on their website & let the downloader name their price.

Khannie

JayC5 wrote: »

However, in relation to torrents I think it's a bit harsh.

For what it's worth there's actually no ban on discussing torrents or torrent technology...BUT....a lot of the threads on here get closed because eventually someone lets slip that they want to download a movie or links to a place that specialises in copyright infringement. Yaarrrr!

JayC5 wrote: »

This media induced suspicion around "torrents" has turned it into some sort of buzz word thats usually bandied about by people who know nothing about torrents or anything torrent linked.

I've used torrents for really good purposes lots of times. When game patches or demos get launched (for example) torrents are regularly the best way to get your hands on them. Unreal.ie used torrents to get the UT3 linux server at a wopping 9MB/s (that's right, 9 megaBYTES per second). Torrents are actually a great technology. That's why the warez monkeys use them so much.

JayC5 wrote: »

I'm not too sympathetic to the movie/music industry for receiving a backlash courtesy of the common man & his trusty internet connection.

I don't think you're alone there tbh.

JayC5 wrote: »

Anyway, I realise that ultimately it's a losing battle and boards hold the cleaver so I submit to the corporate wily ways of our world for now.....

Don't give up. It's good to get these things out in the open and discussed. Like I said before, I use this board too. I also (personally) firmly believe that I should be able to make backups of dvd's I've paid good money for. I have kids and they're not the kindest to my david attenborough box sets.

Khannie

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Radiohead have reported that they (the artists) made more money from their latest album, than they have on all their other albums put together

Holy crap! :eek:

JayC5

So, just out of curiosity... If I created my own thread detailing how to maximize torrent download speeds but specify that I am by no means suggesting or supporting illegal downloads then its ok for me to do so?

Like a software tutorial so to speak -
ie. portforwarding, tweaking of routers, software tweaks etc?

AlmightyCushion

JayC5 wrote: »

So, just out of curiosity... If I created my own thread detailing how to maximize torrent download speeds but specify that I am by no means suggesting or supporting illegal downloads then its ok for me to do so?

Like a software tutorial so to speak -
ie. portforwarding, tweaking of routers, software tweaks etc?

There has never been a problem with these threads as far as I remember. There have also been threads were people recommend the best torrent program.

Khannie

JayC5 wrote: »

So, just out of curiosity... If I created my own thread detailing how to maximize torrent download speeds but specify that I am by no means suggesting or supporting illegal downloads then its ok for me to do so?

Yeah, go for it.

JayC5 wrote: »

Like a software tutorial so to speak -
ie. portforwarding, tweaking of routers, software tweaks etc?

Sounds good to me.

Cato

ok so can a mod open up my thread and bump it back up top? the one were i asked how exactly i can get video of a dvd and on my hardrive?

irlrobins

No, because you're definitely breaking copyright there.

PogMoThoin

PogMoThoin wrote: »

+1
I've no sympathy for the music/film industry either, they've been shooting themselves in the foot for years. Radiohead have reported that they (the artists) made more money from their latest album, than they have on all their other albums put together, which they offered for download on their website & let the downloader name their price.

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but as a follow on to this............... Nine Inch Nails left copies of their new album on memory card in the toilets at their concerts, uploaded their own music album Ghost to a torrent site, and now this, all to defy their record company.

Soundman

Khannie wrote: »

As aidan pointed out, to the best of our (mods) knowledge it's actually not legal for you to do that.


The reality is that dvd backup is mostly used for copyright infringement (let's not kid around here folks) and boards.ie can't be seen to promote / condone / etc. that practice.

If that is the case then why is there open talk of DVD "back-up" in the Mac sub-forum of the Operating Systems Forum with people giving answers on what software to use to do this??

eg:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055214687&highlight=rip
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055194544&highlight=rip

Just two examples I found though I believe there is also software mentioned in the Mac reference sticky too.

I just find there to be certain double standards around which seems unfair. It seems that the PC type forums have more stringent moderation (which I don't mind as I know how to use Google if I need to know anything) but that the Mac fora aren't as strict. Or have I got completely the wrong end of the stick?

irlrobins

Like Khannie says, the process of backing up a DVD can be discussed. But if it's apparent that copyright laws are breached then the mods will lock/delete/ban. And this is what happened with OP's threads.

Soundman

Fair enough. Understood now.

irlrobins

Good, glad that's all cleared up. I think this thread has served its purpose.