Paddy Wallace

Goodluck2me

I thoguht the point was a good one, regarding keeping paddy wallace off the pitch for so long, surely its ridiculous sending on 6 subs and leaving him until the 76th min for a stupid cap.
Is there any way we can blood a player to back up O Gara if we dont give them game time, surely his confidence will be shot to pieces, much like many of the intl soccer players when they play for Ireland.

I think he should have been on for the last 20 at least, if he is good enough to sub, he should be coming on.

Who else is there apart from him? Johhny Sexton is the only I could think of, although I reckon Kearney would have made a decent 10 had he any experience there, obv he doesnt so its a moot point.

Podge_irl

goodluck2me wrote: »

if he is good enough to sub

He's not really though. He's there through lack of other options. I imagine Sexton would not have been far off the bench had he not injured himself. As things stand, I'd probably try Dunne there - I'd feel mildly more secure with him coming on than Wallace (who is a pretty decent IC, but lacks the control of an outhalf).

Niall O'Connor is apparently doing pretty well, though is another year or two off this level.

tHE vAGGABOND

Is there any way we can blood a player to back up O Gara if we dont give them game time

Sexton was in the training squad, and Im quite sure would have been on the bench. But he got injured on one of the first days of Irish training..

toomevara

goodluck2me wrote: »

Is there any way we can blood a player to back up O Gara if we dont give them game time,

That raft of substitutions at the end of the game were utterly idiotic, both tactically and in terms of the morale of the individuals involved....just emptying the bench for the sake of it...

But in terms of Wallace, and with all due respect, you can give the lad all the game time you like but he will never cut it at international level..he's an honest journeyman,no more...

It is the doomsday scenario that dare not speak its name for Irish rugby...O'Gara gets injured and we're shagged, but there is no one coming up at all...really worrying. I've seen O'Connor play for Ulster. he's solid enough and shows promise.... but way, way off 6N level.

Goodluck2me

It has to be relatvie to how O Gara is playing too, if O Gara wsant playing at the top of his form and arguably the best OH in the 6N, then the gulf in class mightnt be so evident, but again as I say, if the unthinkable were to happen, surely you`d prefer Wallace with game time V Wallace with 3 mins v Scotland.

Eoin

toomevara wrote: »

That raft of substitutions at the end of the game were utterly idiotic, both tactically and in terms of the morale of the individuals involved....just emptying the bench for the sake of it...

Apart from Wallace, were they not mostly made with 10 minutes or so to go? That doesn't seem too idiotic, and it's what EOS has been given out to for not doing in the past.

I think the only time not do carry out those subs is if it's a very close game, and you don't want to disturb the balance of the team. When you're up by 15or so points against a team that's scored one try in 5 games, I don't see much wrong with giving the other guys a run.

toomevara

eoin_s wrote: »

When you're up by 15or so points against a team that's scored one try in 5 games, I don't see much wrong with giving the other guys a run.

Ordinarily I'd agree, but i think in this case we were bedding in a lot of key combinations like heaslip, Reddan and the back three who need game time to gel with the 9/10 combo and get under each others skin...

From that perspective I think, tactically it was wrong to make a raft of substitutions..It also ruined the momentum which the team had built up over the previous 70, and from a purely selfish perspective finished the game as a spectacle/contest. In the main, I'm not an advocate of emptying the bench for the sake of it and giving away a whole raft of what are, imo, cheap pointless caps.

Sangre

eoin_s wrote: »

Apart from Wallace, were they not mostly made with 10 minutes or so to go? That doesn't seem too idiotic, and it's what EOS has been given out to for not doing in the past.

I think the only time not do carry out those subs is if it's a very close game, and you don't want to disturb the balance of the team. When you're up by 15or so points against a team that's scored one try in 5 games, I don't see much wrong with giving the other guys a run.

I thought they were so bad it actually tainted the game for me. One of the worst things I've seen Eddie do as a manager.

He emptied the bench and threw on all the guys who had loads of experience for no reason. They didn't need the time, the people who came off the bench did though. Also wholesale subs are usually a bad thing for a game momentum. Also considering the need for a big win from the Irish thing for confidence doing that at the end and accepting that margin as enough was silly. The new subs were put on only for the sake of subbing, they added nothing tactically.

It is as if Eddie has gone the complete opposite from his old position.

toomevara

Sangre wrote: »

I thought they were so bad it actually tainted the game for me. One of the worst things I've seen Eddie do as a manager.

He emptied the bench and threw on all the guys who had loads of experience for no reason. They didn't need the time, the people who came off the bench did though. Also wholesale subs are usually a bad thing for a game momentum. Also considering the need for a big win from the Irish thing for confidence doing that at the end and accepting that margin as enough was silly. The new subs were put on only for the sake of subbing, they added nothing tactically.

It is as if Eddie has gone the complete opposite from his old position.

Completely agree, couldn't have put it better or more eloquently myself...(I tried and failed above...*sigh*)

death1234567

I'd prefer dunne at 10 than wallace TBH, but without O'gara we'd probably lose every game. (except when we played scotland cos they are dismal)

toomevara

death1234567 wrote: »

I'd prefer dunne at 10 than wallace TBH, but without O'gara we'd probably lose every game. (except when we played scotland cos they are dismal)

Well just imagine for a minute the ultimate nightmare scenario (and i dont want to sh1t anyone up here) a long term injury to O'Gara. God between us and all harm, what do we do??..I mean is poor oul' Eddie gonna have to go knocking at old humpty-dumtpies door? An horrendous vista...

Eoin

Sangre wrote: »

I thought they were so bad it actually tainted the game for me. One of the worst things I've seen Eddie do as a manager.

He emptied the bench and threw on all the guys who had loads of experience for no reason. They didn't need the time, the people who came off the bench did though. Also wholesale subs are usually a bad thing for a game momentum. Also considering the need for a big win from the Irish thing for confidence doing that at the end and accepting that margin as enough was silly. The new subs were put on only for the sake of subbing, they added nothing tactically.

It is as if Eddie has gone the complete opposite from his old position.

I think that's hyperbole to say that's among the worst things he's done - his previous stance on tactical subs was far worse for me.

O'Connell and Horgan both needed match time pretty badly after coming back from injuries, so it's not as if all the changes were completely arbitrary. I don't know if Brian O'Driscoll is still carrying a knock, so that could have been a valid change. Buckley needs the game time as well.

jhealy74

in this instance i agree with keeping ogara on the pitch as long as possible this thing might come down to points difference yet!

dc69

toomevara wrote: »

O'Gara gets injured and we're shagged, but there is no one coming up at all...really worrying.

johnny sexton will be a fine player in a few years

Crash

Pity he got the fracture, he'd have earned his first cap this 6n.

phog

The only subs I'd have made were POC (gametime needed), BOD (rest his injury) and give gametime to Shaggy, Mushy and P Wallace (both need gametime). What was the idea of putting on Stringer and Easterby - Reddan and Heaslip weren't injured and the two lads have enough caps that 15 minute cameos at the end of a game is crazy.

Ulstermell0

i agree with the view that most subs were pointless, but just wondering - how many posters with that brilliant 20 20 hindsight would be moaning if ROG got injured in the last ten mins - i can see it now 'we had a big lead, i can't believe he left our most important player on the field.'

Sangre

I think I can safely say I wouldn't have said 'if only Paddy wallace had been on the pitch'.

suppafly

Sangre wrote: »

I think I can safely say I wouldn't have said 'if only Paddy wallace had been on the pitch'.

well said sangre i'd be saying the same too. I wonder is there any chance that Paul Warwick(munster reserve OH) could declare for ireland. He's a very decent player. Very physical. Just needs to sort out penalty kicking

Podge_irl

Warwick isn't eligible. And he's not that good anyway.

Hickie is doing well enough for himself apparently.

Goodluck2me

Podge_irl wrote: »

Warwick isn't eligible. And he's not that good anyway.

Hickie is doing well enough for himself apparently.

Eoghan Hickey?

How is he doing in England?

Podge_irl

aye (knew I'd spell his name wrong).

Seemingly he has only started two games for Irish, thought it was more. I've heard reports that he did well enough in those games though, haven't seen them myself. We're not overflowing with options though.

fguinan

What about young Ian Humphreys? Anytime i have seen him play for the tigers he has done well enough! Definitely as viable an option as Wallace...

Stev_o

fguinan wrote: »

What about young Ian Humphreys? Anytime i have seen him play for the tigers he has done well enough! Definitely as viable an option as Wallace...

Very good attacking OH but cant tackle for his life. It wont be worth getting Wallace to help me out all the time because we will suffer against the top nations.

Hickie did very good against Leicester 5/5 at shots at goal and they were no means easy kicks. If he gets more game time id have him on the Summer Tour.

But very honest regardless if there is a decent fly half that we can play he wont get any game time and will just warm the bench as EOS hates OH rotation with a passion

Crash

Ok well to sum it up, who we have who'd be capable of someday taking over:

Eoghan Hickey
Ian Humphries
Niall O'Connor
Johnny Sexton

Personally my preference would be Sexton, but then again i'm biased on that one, and he is the one i've seen a lot more of. Humphries has impressed in a few games on the attack. Hickey I just haven't seen enough of, and the same with Niall O'Connor.

Stev_o

çrash_000 wrote: »

Ok well to sum it up, who we have who'd be capable of someday taking over:

Eoghan Hickey
Ian Humphries
Niall O'Connor
Johnny Sexton

Personally my preference would be Sexton, but then again i'm biased on that one, and he is the one i've seen a lot more of. Humphries has impressed in a few games on the attack. Hickey I just haven't seen enough of, and the same with Niall O'Connor.

They ALL need game time for us to really start nit picking though. But your also forgetting Andy Dunne

Goodluck2me

Stev_o wrote: »

Very good attacking OH but cant tackle for his life. It wont be worth getting Wallace to help me out all the time because we will suffer against the top nations.

Hickie did very good against Leicester 5/5 at shots at goal and they were no means easy kicks. If he gets more game time id have him on the Summer Tour.

But very honest regardless if there is a decent fly half that we can play he wont get any game time and will just warm the bench as EOS hates OH rotation with a passion

Hickey has a HUGE boot too, and from my experience 60m easily, touchline inside his own half for UCD when he was there.
Very nice guy too, with a great head on his shoulders. I hope he gets more game time with Irish as he really could progress well.

conman78

Hickey is doing very well. Started 5 of last 6 before he got injured against against Leicester. Irish games on sky sports this week and next against gloucsester and wasps. good opportunity to see him in action if fit!