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The "Border Fox" has seen the light.

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  • 25-02-2008 2:08am
    #1
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭


    Notorious republican terrorist Dessie O'Hare is reported to have become a 'born-again Christian' The man who severed a Dublin dentist's finger with a hammer and chisel when his ransom demands weren't met is reported to be attending gospel hall meetings in south Armagh and in Co Louth.

    Reliable sources have confirmed that the former INLA terrorist, who was dubbed the 'Border Fox', has attended services run by a small Protestant congregation in South Armagh in recent weeks and has professed that he has been 'saved'.

    More: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/border-fox-ohare-finds-god-in-a-gospel-hall-1296654.html


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    #2
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Thats nice, why is this here instead of polictic or humanites or the clebs forum ?

    You have given no reason ? no opinion ? so what is your point ?


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    #3
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    Thats nice, why is this here instead of polictic or humanites or the clebs forum ?

    You have given no reason ? no opinion ? so what is your point ?
    Its an interesting topic and is very much a topic for the Christianity forum. From someone who had a notorious past, It shows no matter how bad someone can get they can still turn around and repent. If he was living in the States he could have well been on death row or put to death already. Maybe he could show an example for the rest of these guys from the various organisations both sides of the border that plaged this country for so long.


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    #4
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    I understand he spent quite a bit of time with an evangelical prison chaplain when he was in the clink.
    Thats nice, why is this here instead of polictic or humanites or the clebs forum ?
    These boards never cease to amaze me. If a prominent criminal has reportedly become a Christian then the Christianity forum seem to be a suitable place to post about it. (The clue is in the name of the forum: 'Christianity')


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    #5
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    The op never said what angle he wished to present the information in.
    A post which is just a copy and past with out personal comment or opinion is frowned apon.


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    #6
    DinoBot
    Registered Users Posts: 699 ✭✭✭DinoBot


    as a "born-again" will all his previous sins be forgiven ?


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    #7
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    As Thaedydal said this is just news.

    What exactly are we supposed to be discussing?


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    #8
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    DinoBot wrote: »
    as a "born-again" will all his previous sins be forgiven ?
    That is a very good question. There's no certainty unless he goes to confession. I'd be fairly sure that he'll get a lengthy sentence in Purgatory "until he has paid the last farthing".


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    #9
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    kelly1 wrote: »
    That is a very good question. There's no certainty unless he goes to confession. I'd be fairly sure that he'll get a lengthy sentence in Purgatory "until he has paid the last farthing".
    The forgiveness of Dessie's past sins would be between God and Himself, I cannot see where a third party would get involved.


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    #10
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    The forgiveness of Dessie's past sins would be between God and Himself, I cannot see where a third party would get involved.
    Then you have to wonder why Jesus gave the apostles the power to forgive sins and why the tradition of confessing to a priest began.


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    #11
    pwd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,284 ✭✭✭pwd


    Protestants don't go to confession. Protestant vicars aren't considered to have any special holy powers like the ability to absolve sins and so on like Catholic priests.


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    #12
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    pwd wrote: »
    Protestants don't go to confession. Protestant vicars aren't considered to have any special holy powers like the ability to absolve sins and so on like Catholic priests.
    Yes, I know. He'd have to become Catholic.


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    #13
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Then you have to wonder why Jesus gave the apostles the power to forgive sins and why the tradition of confessing to a priest began.
    Catholicism teaches that it has the power and authority to forgive people's sins. Here are a few quotes from the Catechism. (Please note that whenever the Catechism mentions the "Church," it is referring to the "Roman Catholic church")

    "There is no offense, however serious, that the Church cannot forgive." Pg. 256, #982
    "By Christ's will, the Church possesses the power to forgive the sins of the baptized..." Pg. 257, #986

    "The Church, who through the bishop and his priests forgives sins in the name of Jesus Christ." Pg. 363-364, #1448

    Does the Catholic church have power to forgive sins? Let's see what the Scriptures say:

    "Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?" Mark 2:7


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    #14
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Catholicism teaches that it has the power and authority to forgive people's sins. Here are a few quotes from the Catechism. (Please note that whenever the Catechism mentions the "Church," it is referring to the "Roman Catholic church")

    "There is no offense, however serious, that the Church cannot forgive." Pg. 256, #982
    "By Christ's will, the Church possesses the power to forgive the sins of the baptized..." Pg. 257, #986

    "The Church, who through the bishop and his priests forgives sins in the name of Jesus Christ." Pg. 363-364, #1448

    Does the Catholic church have power to forgive sins? Let's see what the Scriptures say:

    "Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?" Mark 2:7
    My question still applies i.e. why did Jesus give the apostles the authority to forgiven sins? The answer is that Jesus conferred the authority to forgive sins in God's name. It is God who does the forgiving but He does it when a priest says the words of absolution and denies forgiveness when the priest denies absolution. It is God's will that we humble ourselves to confess our sins to another human. Do you confess your sins to anybody else?
    James 5:16 Confess therefore your sins one to another


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    #15
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    kelly1 wrote: »
    My question still applies i.e. why did Jesus give the apostles the authority to forgiven sins? The answer is that Jesus conferred the authority to forgive sins in God's name. It is God who does the forgiving but He does it when a priest says the words of absolution and denies forgiveness when the priest denies absolution. It is God's will that we humble ourselves to confess our sins to another human. Do you confess your sins to anybody else?
    I see no problem discussing our transgressions and faults among fellow Christians but I still see no place for another mediator such as a priest to intervene between God and ourselves. "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" 2 Timothy 2vs5.


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    #16
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    I see no problem discussing our transgressions and faults among fellow Christians but I still see no place for another mediator such as a priest to intervene between God and ourselves. "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" 2 Timothy 2vs5.
    Maybe you see no need for a mediator but as I've said already, Jesus did becuase He gave the aposltes the authority to forgive sins.
    John 20:21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

    Why would Jesus do this is He wanted us to confess directly to God? Do you think Jesus got it wrong, crossed wires???


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    #17
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Maybe you see no need for a mediator but as I've said already, Jesus did becuase He gave the aposltes the authority to forgive sins. Why would Jesus do this is He wanted us to confess directly to God? Do you think Jesus got it wrong, crossed wires???
    "Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained." -John 20:23

    John 20:23 is the verse relied upon as the strongest to support this position of the Roman Catholic and Luthern Church. This they claim is their right and power given to them by God to forgive your sins.

    To obtain the correct teaching of Verse 23, (as any person who studies the Bible should know), you must compare all other Scriptures that pertain to the same subject or verse in question.

    When all Scriptures pertaining to the same subject AGREE, then you have the correct teaching of that subject or verse. If not, then you have a wrong interpretation or application of the verse or subject in question. This would then lead to a false teaching perpetuated upon the unsuspecting congregation.

    Since all Scripture is given by "inspiration of God" (2nd Timothy 3:16), there can be no error or contradiction in God's Word. This is why Peter declared in 2nd Peter 1:20 that "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any PRIVATE INTERPRETATION."

    Anyway we are straying off topic. Back to the "Border Fox" I am glad to hear that he has made the decision to become a Christian.


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    #18
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Anyway we are straying off topic. Back to the "Border Fox" I am glad to hear that he has made the decision to become a Christian.
    Yes I'm glad too. Anyone else our there glad? :)


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    #19
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Yes, I know. He'd have to become Catholic.

    You really are set on division aren't you.

    Hmm, actually priests in the Anglican tradition are considered to have the power to absolve sins during a Church service or on any other occasion. That may be due to the understanding that the Anglican Church is both Catholic and Reformed in description I guess though.


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    #20
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Yes I'm glad too. Anyone else our there glad? :)

    I'm not. But not sure I count, being a heathen and all :)


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    #21
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Yes, I know. He'd have to become Catholic.

    Technically he probably still is a Catholic since he was baptised as a baby and has never been excommunicated. Would this be correct?


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    #22
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    PDN wrote: »
    Technically he probably still is a Catholic since he was baptised as a baby and has never been excommunicated. Would this be correct?
    Same with me :)


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    #23
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Wicknight wrote: »
    I'm not. But not sure I count, being a heathen and all :)

    So would you prefer it if he was still kidnapping people and cutting their fingers off?


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    #24
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users Posts: 10,245 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    Wicknight wrote: »
    As Thaedydal said this is just news.

    What exactly are we supposed to be discussing?

    One would imagine we are encouraged to discuss 'the news' ;)


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    #25
    santing
    Registered Users Posts: 671 ✭✭✭santing


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Notorious republican terrorist Dessie O'Hare is reported to have become a 'born-again Christian' l

    It is great news if Dessie has had this life changing experience! We can praise God for that.
    It is understandable though that his former victims are suspicious - I would probably be too in their case.


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    #26
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    PDN wrote: »
    So would you prefer it if he was still kidnapping people and cutting their fingers off?

    That is the alternative is it ... :rolleyes:


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    #27
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Wicknight wrote: »
    That is the alternative is it ... :rolleyes:

    For many people it is. Often those who are trapped in lifestyles involving serious crime, alcoholism, drug addiction, violence etc. find that embracing a religious belief gives them the incentive and power to break out of their destructive patterns of behaviour.

    I would add that this does not just apply to Christianity - it can apply to those who convert to non-violent mainstream Islam as well. As far as I know there are few, if any, instances of where a commitment to atheism has helped an alcoholic, addict, or criminal to radically improve their lifestyle. Of course this says little or nothing about the truth claims of religion or atheism - but sociologists would generally agree that atheism lacks the transforming power of a strong religious faith.

    I would be happy to hear that Mr O'Hare had converted to, say, Buddhism and was now pursuing a life free from violence. While, in my personal opinion, such a switch may have little impact on his personal salvation, it would undeniable be better for society as a whole, and particularly for any potential future victims, that he renounced violence.

    Therefore I found it strange that your dislike of Christianity would lead you to express your unhappiness that an extremely dangerous individual appears to be following a path that is undoubtedly more beneficial to society.


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    #28
    mossieh
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭mossieh


    PDN wrote: »
    I found it strange that your dislike of Christianity would lead you to express your unhappiness that an extremely dangerous individual appears to be following a path that is undoubtedly more beneficial to society.

    Sorry for the truncated quote but that line interested me. It didn't strike me that Wicknight was unhappy 'that an extremely dangerous individual appears to be following a path that is undoubtedly more beneficial to society' but that he saw no particular reason to be happy that Dessie O' Hare was now a christian. He doesn't have to be a christian to contribute to society you know. If anything, it's just swapping republican brainwashing for religious brainwashing. You're smart enough to argue without putting words in peoples mouths PDN.


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    #29
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    That Christianity is brainwashing, is your opinion, nothing more.


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    #30
    mossieh
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭mossieh


    kelly1 wrote: »
    That Christianity is brainwashing, is your opinion, nothing more.

    Quite true Noel.
    It is only my opinion. I think that indoctrination to a religion from early childhood is akin in method (not purpose) to the enrolment of children in the hitler youth. It's hard for people to shake off beliefs that are drilled into them as kids. It is brainwashing, in my opinion.


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    #31
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    mossieh wrote: »
    Quite true Noel.
    It is only my opinion. I think that indoctrination to a religion from early childhood is akin in method (not purpose) to the enrolment of children in the hitler youth. It's hard for people to shake off beliefs that are drilled into them as kids. It is brainwashing, in my opinion.

    Not sure how kids got into this thread. Actually Dessie O'Hare is not a child. He is 51 years old.


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