Apple macbook

Toon--soldier

Hi i im lookin for advice on the macbook, are they any good or are the overpriced? and is there any sort of alternitive? most of the dell laptops seem to be really heavy, the main thing i would be using it for is autocad(engineering student) so i would like something light and compact, is it hard to get windows onto them? Cheers

BanzaiBk

Have a read of this thread in the Mac forum. There is an educational discount for people in 3rd level education/employment and there is a refurb store where you can buy machines that have been refurb'd for a fairly nice discount.

Most people will tell you that it is over priced and reccommend a 13" Dell XPS M1330 - See here. Both are very capable laptops, in the end it will come down to personal choice. If you want the mac, get the mac. If you would prefer a non-mac then the XPS is a great choice. You can use Windows if you need to on a mac using the included Bootcamp software. Both of them are 13" and in my experience quite light and compact.

majiktripp

IMO Macbooks are overpriced to the hilt but thats just my opinion. They do look nice and have a lot of software as standard on them but at the end of the day it all comes down to personal preference. Probably the best thing you could do is go into a 3G store or Apple reseller and have a tinker around with the macbook first hand and see what you think yourself.

grodge

recently got the macbook pro and while it a great machine, mine is giving me trouble. seems like an isolated incident, so maybe hardware.

anywho my advice to you is this. if you tend to use autocad alot be very aware that Autodesk AutoCAD is a windows programme and there aint a mac version yet or by the looks of it coming soon.

you have options however. with the new OSX 10.5 (operating system) there is a programme called bootcamp installed which will allow you so run windows on your mac. what happens is when you start the machine the option to boot to OSX or WINDOWS is available.

you also have another option. you can get software that allows you to boot windows while the OSX is running. think of it as going to the start menu in windows and picking a programme to open, but the programme just happens to be another operating system. these programmes are called Parallels and VMWare Fusion. have a look on the net for the kind of specs you will need.

anywho ill give you my experience of running autocad on the mac (architecture tech student). im not sure if it because of the problems i listed above but windows runs ok but a little jumpy at times. i have allocated 2gb of memory to Vista and as much graphics power as i could. im currently running vmware fusion. was running parallels but it a pirate version and gave me trouble. vmware seems ok but because the machine is dodge it struggles a bit. im going to try to use bootcamp in a few weeks to see if it works better and so that all the resources of the machine can be given to windows. if it dosent work then apple are getting some calls.

my advice: dont listen to stupid fanboys saying macs are the greatest ever. macs are great and really easy to use but for your situation they are awkward. my friend uses parallels and cad and has no trouble ever with it, i have had trouble. if a mac is something you really want only get it if you plan to keep it for a long time and take good care of it because they are expensive and you will need to spend about 70 euro extra for windows to work. my advice on dell - heavy ugly but they work! sony - well spec, nice design but pricey for what is in it. hp/compaq - good machine, good price, good support service. its what i would have if not using a mac.
remember if ur using cad best get at least 2gb memory and an INDEPENDENT GRAPHICS CARD ie. one that has its own memory.

hope this helps you a little bit. if you need more info ill be more than happy to help :D:D

projectmayhem

Toon--soldier wrote: »

Hi i im lookin for advice on the macbook, are they any good or are the overpriced? and is there any sort of alternitive? most of the dell laptops seem to be really heavy, the main thing i would be using it for is autocad(engineering student) so i would like something light and compact, is it hard to get windows onto them? Cheers

i have the macbook pro, which is what you need for autocad (in terms of spec).

if that's all you'll use it for, save the cash and get an XPS laptop or equivalent. you'll get more use out of it since you're running windows (and as such can play games with the machine, etc. etc.).

having said that, if you're dead set on a macbook, then you can install windows operating systems under something called "bootcamp", which will work like a charm for you (autocad and everything else)...

having bought the macbook pro recently myself, my "big" pc has become an expensive games console for me as most of my work is done on the mac. i love it to bits. the usual argument from a mac user, and from me is that "it just works". i have XP and ubuntu installed on this machine too... so anything that doesn't run under mac i can run with bootcamp.

the only issue i can pick up on is that you want light and compact. the macbook pro is as compact as any 15" laptop (the model i have, there is a 17" model too)... but it is quite heavy. i would describe it as a mercedes to the dell XPS' audi. both are excellent machines, but the mac just has that little bit more...

Toon--soldier

Would the graphics card be that important though? the macbook im looking at is the black 2.2ghz and the only difference between that and the macbook pro 15 inch is the resolution and grahpics card, this really wouldnt be a problem because im not really gamer unless it would interfere with autocad? i assume such a small difference in resolution wouldnt make a differnce in watching dvds? other than the bootcamp option theres no way to just have windows by itself, as it would seem a waste to have 2 os's and only use 1?

BostonB

Some times, you can pick up one of those XPS machines almost half price and with a great spec on the Dell outlet. Which is what I did. You have to spend a lot more to get the same spec on the Apple Outlet. Both are decent machines. I prefer the Macbook Pro over the MacBook though. The only way to know is to play with them in a shop, or if a friend has one etc.

conzy

Nice Hardware, Crazily overpriced....

Get a M1330 or M1530

Hugh_C

Toon--soldier wrote: »

Would the graphics card be that important though?

Yes, the macbook has an integrated graphics processor and I'd imagine that AutoCad needs something a bit meatier.

Toon--soldier wrote: »

other than the bootcamp option theres no way to just have windows by itself, as it would seem a waste to have 2 os's and only use 1?

In that case don't get a macbook or any other mac, get yourself the Dell. OS X is pretty much the only reason why I use macs on a daily basis, it does everything I need it to do, and it does it well. It's intuitive and it just works. As regards the cost, crazily overpriced is a bit simplistic and wide open to debate.

If you do decide to get the mac, don't buy RAM from Apple because that is crazily overpriced, get it from crucial or somewhere similar.

conzy

Dell XPS M1330:

T7250 2ghz
2gigs of 667mhz ram
160gig HDD
8400m GS Discrete graphics
Biometric fingerprint reader
8in1 Memory Card reader
remote control
HDMI
Wifi Catcher
Vga Port
Express card slot
2mp Camera

1079 euro


Apple Macbook:


T7250 2ghz
2gigs of 667mhz ram
160gig HDD
integrated graphics
Vga Camera

1328 euro


Sacrificing a lot for that Apple logo now aren't you? So i wholeheartedly stand by my argument that the Macbook is crazily overpriced, 300 euro more and half the features?! Nice!!

Hugh_C

conzymaher wrote: »

So i wholeheartedly stand by my argument that the Macbook is crazily overpriced, 300 euro more and half the features?

OK for a start you're not quoting Apple's educational prices, which the OP gave the impression he might qualify for. Secondly you've specced it using Apple ram which is unreasonably expensive as I said above, much cheaper from crucial and thirdly you've up-specced the drive, again from apple, again much more expensive than 3rd party.

Look at your Dell, wtf's a wifi catcher? It's an in-built part of OS X, so trifling I wouldn't even bother to refer to it as a feature. Bio-metric fingerprint reader - mmm - nice gadget but I prefer FileVault (automatic on-the-fly encryption), again part of OS X. I guess neither is going to stop someone robbing a laptop though. 8-in-one card reader? Get one for ten quid on eBay. Remote control? Again, every mac comes with one but it's too trifling to call a feature - it'd be like calling USB and firewire ports a feature. HDMI? meh, you'd have to have hdmi gear to hook up to it. VGA? old hat my friend. Oh, and the Dell comes with some flavour of Vista. Shudders.

So if I was buying the macbook system you specced I could knock off a couple of hundred quid off your price and still be happy. Plus I get to use all the included, integrated software. Horses for courses I suppose.

conzymaher wrote: »

Sacrificing a lot for that Apple logo now aren't you?

Me? No. Not at all.

BostonB

I bought our M1330 with a similar spec as above but with on board gfx for about €520 inc vat/del on the Dell outlet. If you shop at retail prices theres not much between Mac and PC. But who does that?. If you shop around for outlet/refurbs, vouchers and special offers you can easily get better spec for far less than Apple.

That said when you buy a Mac you are buying into OS X & Mac. So its not just about the hardware its about the system and the Apple ethos. While I use XP and Vista no problem, though I think Vista is a dis-improvement over XP. Its a no brainer to realise that OS X is basically Unix with a nice GUI which just has to be better. I like using OS X, but then I like XP too. XP suits me better at the moment.

conzy

Hugh_C wrote: »

OK for a start you're not quoting Apple's educational prices, which the OP gave the impression he might qualify for. Secondly you've specced it using Apple ram which is unreasonably expensive as I said above, much cheaper from crucial and thirdly you've up-specced the drive, again from apple, again much more expensive than 3rd party.

Look at your Dell, wtf's a wifi catcher? It's an in-built part of OS X, so trifling I wouldn't even bother to refer to it as a feature. Bio-metric fingerprint reader - mmm - nice gadget but I prefer FileVault (automatic on-the-fly encryption), again part of OS X. I guess neither is going to stop someone robbing a laptop though. 8-in-one card reader? Get one for ten quid on eBay. Remote control? Again, every mac comes with one but it's too trifling to call a feature - it'd be like calling USB and firewire ports a feature. HDMI? meh, you'd have to have hdmi gear to hook up to it. VGA? old hat my friend. Oh, and the Dell comes with some flavour of Vista. Shudders.

So if I was buying the macbook system you specced I could knock off a couple of hundred quid off your price and still be happy. Plus I get to use all the included, integrated software. Horses for courses I suppose.



Me? No. Not at all.

haha typical mac user bull****

So what you are saying is, If the OP buys the mac, then buys a 3rd party 160gig Hard drive, Installs it, re-installs the operating system, buys 3rd party ram, installs that, then if he buys an external card reader for some more money, lugs that around with him, He will have a mac that still has less features than the Dell for MORE money and LOTS of hassle?!

Nice! real nice! And how can you dismiss HDMI, an internal card reader, and finger print scanner as features? Maybe you dont need them, it doesn't take away from the fact that the laptop has them and you don't need to buy additional accessories..

Also the Wifi catcher allows you to scan for Wifi hotspots without booting the laptop...

So the Mac costs 1049 + a new HDD + an extra gig of ram + Hassle?

I thought it should "just work" ?

BanzaiBk

conzymaher wrote: »

haha typical mac user bull****

So what you are saying is, If the OP buys the mac, then buys a 3rd party 160gig Hard drive, Installs it, re-installs the operating system, buys 3rd party ram, installs that, then if he buys an external card reader for some more money, lugs that around with him, He will have a mac that still has less features than the Dell for MORE money and LOTS of hassle?!

Nice! real nice! And how can you dismiss HDMI, an internal card reader, and finger print scanner as features? Maybe you dont need them, it doesn't take away from the fact that the laptop has them and you don't need to buy additional accessories..

Also the Wifi catcher allows you to scan for Wifi hotspots without booting the laptop...

So the Mac costs 1049 + a new HDD + an extra gig of ram + Hassle?

I thought it should "just work" ?

lol. Calm down, as Boston said most people buy a mac for OSX. If you don't want a mac that then don't buy it.

BostonB

I kinda like the finger print scanner myself. Apart from the security its great for switching profiles when theres a couple of you using the same computer. Swipe finger and it auto switches to your profile.

conzy

BanzaiBk wrote: »

lol. Calm down, as Boston said most people buy a mac for OSX. If you don't want a mac that then don't buy it.

Just dont look people being forced onto the apple band wagon, especially when it isnt the best option, the OP wants the notebook for AutoCad and the Dell system is clearly the better machine in terms of value, performance and suitability to the task

BanzaiBk

For definite, I didn't know that the Autocad programme doesn't have a mac format so I wasn't best placed to advise. If you need to use Windows a lot then you're better off with a non mac.

I kinda like the finger print scanner myself. Apart from the security its great for switching profiles when theres a couple of you using the same computer. Swipe finger and it auto switches to your profile.

I know people usually lambast the finger print scanner, but I recently got to see one on my friends new laptop and thought that the profile switch was a really nice feature.

conzy

You can also bind a different finger to each Application, Wonder if it works with toes?

grodge

he/she is looking for help on what laptop to buy to run a specific programme. i dont think OP is to bothered if he/she gets a finger print scanner or not.

conzy

cool, The Dell is still cheaper and more powerful and comes with windows, which is required to run AutoCad....

Hugh_C

conzymaher wrote: »

Just dont look people being forced onto the apple band wagon, especially when it isnt the best option, the OP wants the notebook for AutoCad and the Dell system is clearly the better machine in terms of value, performance and suitability to the task

Which I clearly suggested further up the thread. Maybe you're being blinded by the glare off your fingerprint scanner S/he doesn't need a Mac.

I do.

ZENER

I can only guess Tom Dunne is away on his holliers or something !!:D It isn't often you see a Mac mentioned in here !

I agree though, the original poster needs a Windows based laptop - simple as. The 13" screen on any computer won't seem such a good idea after a while working in Autocad. Once all the apps panels and pallets are on screen there won't be much space left over. A feature like Spaces on the Mac would be useful - I'm sure there's a similar feature on Vista somewhere.

There are some light 15" laptops around if you search enough but anything that light will cost you. Some of the tidier Sonys are nearly 1600 quid !

ZEN

BostonB

Hugh_C wrote: »

Which I clearly suggested further up the thread. Maybe you're being blinded by the glare off your fingerprint scanner S/he doesn't need a Mac.

I do.

What light? It doesn't work like the movies.

hoolamoppa wrote: »

Norton !!! ...

I hope your being sarcastic.

ZENER wrote: »

I can only guess Tom Dunne is away on his holliers or something !!:D It isn't often you see a Mac mentioned in here !

I agree though, the original poster needs a Windows based laptop - simple as. The 13" screen on any computer won't seem such a good idea after a while working in Autocad. Once all the apps panels and pallets are on screen there won't be much space left over. A feature like Spaces on the Mac would be useful - I'm sure there's a similar feature on Vista somewhere.

There are some light 15" laptops around if you search enough but anything that light will cost you. Some of the tidier Sonys are nearly 1600 quid !

ZEN

When I'm doing design or graphics, or CAD I always want the biggest screen possible. Thats doesn't really work with "light and portable". If thats the prime requirement. That said I have a 17" with 1920x1200" screen and I have no problem carrying it between jobs. I wouldn't want to walk a lot with it. But for just carrying around from car to work and throwing in a bag its fine. But the screen it great for any kind of work. Over 2 hrs battery life too. I have a 13" M1330 aswell and I wouldn't want to use it for CAD tbh. Of course you can get a 13" and then plug it into a large monitor when back at base. I use dual monitors at work and it great. But for home its too much clutter. Avoiding clutter is one of the main reasons I went with a laptop in the first place.

Tom Dunne

ZENER wrote: »

I can only guess Tom Dunne is away on his holliers or something !!:D It isn't often you see a Mac mentioned in here

Oh, I'm here all right.

I have no problem discussing Macs as long as it is done in a fair and objective manner. The problem I have is with blinkered Mac evangelists, thankfully none of which have "contributed" to this thread.

conzy

If you need portability and good screen real estate then the M1530 with the 1680*1050 screen is probably your best option, its priced similarly to the M1330

BostonB

conzymaher wrote: »

If you need portability and good screen real estate then the M1530 with the 1680*1050 screen is probably your best option, its priced similarly to the M1330

You should try that res somwwhere before you buy. Some don't like hi res on a 15".