Starting Taekwon-Do or kenpo karate At 27

thegoth

Hi,

I have two questions. I am 27.

1) I am thinking of taking up Taekwon or Kenpo Karate. Am I too old to start this ?

2) If I am not, which one should I do. From reading online, they seem very similar

Any advice greatly appreciated

Black Swan

I instruct TKD and we get students that are just beginning from age 4 to almost 60. If you have the will, you can develop the skill.

Which to choose? Suggest you visit TKD dojangs and Kenpo dojos and observe the instruction, and maybe take a few free or discounted lessons to see which one is best for you.

thegoth

Thanks for the advice. Thats great to hear

RedRaven

thegoth wrote: »

Hi,

I have two questions. I am 27.

1) I am thinking of taking up Taekwon or Kenpo Karate. Am I too old to start this ?

2) If I am not, which one should I do. From reading online, they seem very similar

Any advice greatly appreciated

My advice is come to Bridgestone Muay Thai...because we listen to the Neph..S.O.M.....Typo Negative..The Mission etc when we train!!!:D

Just kidding...like the name though!!;)

Baggio...

Both are a traditional martial art. 27 is a fine age to start!

TKD has more emphasis on kicks - great for sport, fitness and competitions. Semi- contact. You could PM Jon Mackey for more info - he's a 3rd Dan and really knows his stuff.

American Kenpo has a VAST syllabus (I'm not saying that's necessarily a good thing) - again, good for sport and fitness. Incorporates hands and kicking. It is a technique based system. Every belt you lean a different set of techniques with forms (traditional Kata), and patterns. And at higher levels they incorporate weapon training.

Either of them is cool for a hobby - try both!

But if you want all out self-defense, look to something else.

If you want a full contact sport - look to Boxing, Thai or MMA.

Gillo

Baggio... wrote: »

But if you want all out self-defense, look to something else.

If you want a full contact sport - look to Boxing, Thai or MMA.

What do you recommend for self defense?
I'm in a similar situation to the OP, 29 years old and looking to start something primarily for self defense, but also to be able to "put up a good fight" -I don't mean kicking the $hit out of someone just enough to be able to walk away. Sizewise I'm pretty small, 5'6" 10 stone work out a 4-5 days a week so it's muscle but I'm still a light build.

Baggio...

Hey Gillo,

I know a few light guys who train with us, and they can hit pretty darn hard. So it's not a concern.

Here's what we do at www.ucireland.com

It's geared specifically for self-defence. If you've been following "best WWII Combatives books" thread that might give you some idea. Just ignore the negativity .

We also practice "self-protection" (geared towards civilians). As well as the "hard skills" (striking and impact generation). We add elements such as "soft skills" - so the students get an understanding of real violence and how career criminals operate, and how best to avoid such incidents. If you are in Dublin and it sounds like something that you might be interested in contact Jon Mackey (jon@ucireland.com).

Your bound to get a lot of different opinions here, as to what's best for SD (just wait for the torrents ). You can always pop down to a club or phone up an instructor for more information. Personally I'd veer away from "sporting arts" as they concentrate on "match fighting" and competitions.

However if you are interested in the sporting side, Boxing and Muai Thai are very good! The only thing is that they teach strategies geared for the ring, as opposed to outside for the street (which are very different entities as I mentioned ealier). That said - you could easily add some street type strategies to these particular arts, and you'd have some great material to work with.

All the best,

R.

Pride Fighter

Baggio... wrote: »

Both are a traditional martial art. 27 is a fine age to start!

TKD has more emphasis on kicks - great for sport, fitness and competitions. Semi- contact. You could PM Jon Mackey for more info - he's a 3rd Dan and really knows his stuff.

American Kenpo has a VAST syllabus (I'm not saying that's necessarily a good thing) - again, good for sport and fitness. Incorporates hands and kicking. It is a technique based system. Every belt you lean a different set of techniques with forms (traditional Kata), and patterns. And at higher levels they incorporate weapon training.

Either of them is cool for a hobby - try both!

But if you want all out self-defense, look to something else.

If you want a full contact sport - look to Boxing, Thai or MMA.

Kenpo is one of the best TMA for self -defence and generally well taught. It encourages cross-training and all the instructors I've had have been brilliant. The syllabus is just there for grading purposes, we are taught use what works.

Baggio...

Pride Fighter wrote: »

The syllabus is just there for grading purposes, we are taught use what works.

Hey PF,

What type of strategies does your Kenpo employ for the street? I did it for quite a while - but I'm more interested in the "self-protection" side of things these days.

Cheers,

R.

SorGan

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Kenpo is one of the best TMA for self -defence and generally well taught. It encourages cross-training and all the instructors I've had have been brilliant. The syllabus is just there for grading purposes, we are taught use what works.

best TMA for self -defense does not inspire confidence:)

Roper

Baggio... wrote: »

It's geared specifically for self-defence. If you've been following "best WWII Combatives books" thread that might give you some idea. Just ignore the negativity .

Or, take the negativity into account, read about what Baggio does, read the arguments against and then make an informed decision.:)

If you're looking for a good semi-contactsport OP than TKD is the way to go. I have to say it really depends on the club what you'll be doing though. Some do lots of padwork, some do lots of patterns. If you post up where you're living and what you want it for I might be able to pm you some reccomendations on where to train.

Baggio...

Roper wrote: »

Or, take the negativity into account, read about what Baggio does, read the arguments against and then make an informed decision.:)

Actually Roper is correct.

Do listen to the negativity then listen to what we have to say. One problem about the negativity is that it's often made by guys who don't train in it, or have just watched a DVD or read an article - It's not an informed opinion, but that's OK. As I have always said, on these forums, NEVER take my word for it. Try out some of the concepts we use under pressure - and then you'll see for yourself whether they work or not.

One thing I forgot to mention in my first post was (regardless of the style). If you want to train for self-defense make sure your instructor has had a lot of real world violent experiences and looked beyond the Dojo. So they wont be teaching you from "theoretical" aspect. It's the difference between a flight simulator and actually flying the plane.

Gillo You're always welcome to come and try it out.:)

I can offer you a free lesson, the only thing is that I live in Kildare. Jon Mackey is a great instructor and a very cool guy - he operates in Dublin.

Cheers,

R.

David Jones

If you want to train for self-defense make sure your instructor has had a lot of real world violent experiences and looked beyond the Dojo. So they wont be teaching you from "theoretical" aspect. It's the difference between a flight simulator and actually flying the plane.

Or you could find someone who has real world experiences but has 9 out of 10 managed to avoid such situations with either good use of verbal skills or simply not escalating the situation by being having the mindset "I have killer street skills". Alcohol, drugs and poverty are the cause of most of the assaults in this country. Dont drink to much, or hang out with people who cant control their consumption, dont do,sell or buy drugs, and dont flash your cash or material posessions in the face of those who dont have such things. Young men 18 - 30 are the most likely victims of a violent assault and most of these happen at night or in the early hours of the morning in,near or around, pubs, fast food outlets, bus stops and taxi ranks. Very easy to avoid the above for the majority of the time if you put a bit of thought into it, it aint rocket science!

Killer senseis with their tales of real world encounters should be avoided at all costs imho. Find a friendly place to train in something that you like where preferably your skills are tested in a competitive realistic environment, so your confidence is built but not falsely and your ego is always kept in check and follow the above advice and your chances of a violent encounter will be minimised. Oh and if someone bangs into you because they are drunk and spills your drink or theirs on you, find somewhere less packed.

Baggio...

Deleted... Apologies.

David Jones

I dont think its necessary a skill, soft or otherwise, its common sense, if you have to go to a class to be taught how to avoid violent situations I think you need to watch and read the news more often, its that simple, oh that and dont be a d*ck to people and most of the time they will return the favour.

Baggio...

David Jones wrote: »

dick to people and most of the time they will return the favour.

please elaborate?

David Jones

Dont be a d*ck to people?? Substitute *ssh*le, ignorant person, w**ker if you prefer.

There are two types of people, those who look for trouble and those who choose to avoid it. If someone bangs into you in a crowded pub, you have a split second to make a choice, you can escalate the situation by "shaping up" to the individual ie being a d*ck or you can recognise the fact that you are in a crowded pub full of inebriated people the vast majority of whom are there to have a good time. Its your choice to be there, and its almost guaranteed the guy or girl didnt mean to bang into you. Its not that difficult to see which option avoids violence in almost all cases. If you train because you think everyone on a night out is out to get you and you need to be prepared for it when it happens, I think you are setting yourself up for a very sad existence. Go out less, or be selective of where you go and take up golf or something. You will be less paranoid, have lower blood pressure although your fashion sense will suffer terminally.

David Jones

I never said my manners were perfect. Apologies if your sensibilities were compromised by my real world bad language, have now inserted stars (no not street lethal ninja ones) to make it less offensive.

Baggio...

David Jones wrote: »

Dont be a dick to people?? Substitute asshole, ignorant person, wanker if you prefer.

Sorry I see what you mean now. Yes your right...

In a perfect world, you should just not be there in the first place, and common sense and instincts should be you guide. However, you can't always control what scumbags do or where they go. You can't always avoid places you know you shouldn't be in. An example I often use, was that I had to walk through a very dodgey area when I used to go to college in the UK. It was a notorious place, but as I was only a poor student and had no car so I had no other choice.

Lee showed me an article in a local newspaper last time I was over training with him in Southampton. An elderly woman opens her door to two young scummers - one punched her in the head repeatedly and ran off laughing. Apparently they did it for no other reason than to just have a laugh. She was also trying to recover from Gastric Cancer (she just had gastric bypass surgery). Yep - these are rare events, I know she should have not opened the door. Wrong time wrong place and all - but unfortunately it does happen.

Another article he showed me some time ago, an 11 year old boy approaches a middle aged man in broad daylight, and brandishes a sharpened screwdriver, demanding money. The man as expected, tell him to "F off!", and tries to grab the 11 year old - the kid panics and accidentally stabs the guy in the hart. Dead in minutes... he had a wife and two kids.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that it's pretty easy to avoid fighting, especially if you not an arse to people. The problem lies that there can be an awful lot of variables that no matter how well you try to avoid trouble, that it can some times find you regardless.

R.

Baggio...

David Jones wrote: »

I never said my manners were perfect. Apologies if your sensibilities were compromised by my real world bad language, have now inserted stars (no not street lethal ninja ones) to make it less offensive.

Sorry mate my fault - I got the wrong end of the stick. So I'm going to delete some of my "quick to judge" comments.

David Jones

Ok not being uncharitable, but the elderly woman or her relatives should have had a door view lense, or an external set of bars installed especially if the area was dodgy.

Totally agree that trouble may some times find you but more often than not if you apply common sense you can avoid it most of the time. Personally I dont carry cash more than a tenner and all my cards can be cancelled with a phone call, the actual wallet cost about 5 euro in greece, i buy a new one every year, so they someone brandishing a screw driver can have it if they think its worth it? It certainly isnt worth dying for on my part. Most stuff is replaceable so ego damn sure shouldnt make it irreplaceable. I guess my point is that a certain healthy respect for violence is needed if you practice martial arts but I think that training in a certain environment and with certain types of people can make that respect turn to paranoia or worse still a liking for violence. When I first opened my club, I had all and sundry of the locals down to basically put it up to the guy teaching that stuff from the UFC. There were two types those who could cope with having a dent made in their ego and are now some of my best students and those who couldnt who crawled back to wherever they train or talk about training and maiming and hurting people with their mates.

I worked on the door for over 10 years in both Belfast and Dublin, but I can still count on the fingers of two hands the amount of serious violent situations that were unavoidable. I and one or two like minded guys who I always worked with were damn good doormen and were always in demand. Not because we fought a lot, quite the opposite, we were able to deal with people in a diplomatic manner even the complete drunken idiots who wanted to impress their mates by putting it up to the doorman. I also had the distinct displeasure of working with complete and utter tossers who just wanted to hurt people and always ended up making things worse, the guns and ammo subscriber types, the guys who made their own pepper spray and carried extendable batons. Completely paranoid, completely unable to relate to people and bloody useless as doormen.

Avoid violence wherever you can, its not that difficult, Most of it like I said is confined to one particular gender, one age group, a few places and a certain time of night or early morning. Life is for enjoying with your mates and family. Less paranoia and more respect will go along way. Train hard for the fun of it.

Rant over!

Baggio...

David Jones wrote: »

Personally I dont carry cash more than a tenner and all my cards can be cancelled with a phone call, the actual wallet cost about 5 euro in greece, i buy a new one every year, so they someone brandishing a screw driver can have it if they think its worth it? It certainly isnt worth dying for on my part. Most stuff is replaceable so ego damn sure shouldnt make it irreplaceable.

Good point. Don't carry anything you can't afford to loose.

I'd agree, "Ego" had led many people down a bad road. Including myself when I was much much younger. And if people still carry it around, it's a total trouble magnet.

Eire_freedom

I've done a bit of kenpo as a kid and started it again recently....I like it because it uses alot of nasty effecitve techniques, the very first technique you'll learn incorperate a shot to the groin which let's face it is one of the most painful things u can do to a guy, plus a chop to the neck/mastoid. I like it as it's fairly nasty and it encourages you to end the fight as quick as possible and then to get the hell away

thegoth

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the replys. My goals are just to do this as a hobby. I dont plan on getting into too many street fights !!! Both sound good. I think I might try both

Baggio...

thegoth wrote: »

Thanks for all the replys. My goals are just to do this as a hobby.

That's the best - try them both.

I must say at the time I enjoyed the 'auld American Kenpo (form a hobbyists perspective). The syllabus is very big and dynamic, it will keep you going for a long time. And if you like weapons training - yer' sorted (Sai, knives, Bo Staff, Nunchuk, etc). Just ignore the politics and enjoy the training!

I'm sure you'd probably get a similar kick from TKD (no pun intended).

Gillo

Agreed, I'd rather lose my ipod than get a hiding, I'm not looking to get into trouble, what I've always done up to now is to run and to be honest I'm quite happy with doing the same. The one or two fights I've got into have also in post club and happened when I've tried dragging friends / colleagues away from trouble and got dragged in. Without going into details basically a change in circumstances mean that for the next while I'm more likely to get a punch thrown at me, so what I'm looking for is to effectivly block and "disable" if thats the right word to use.

Thanks for the offer Baggio, unfortuately Kidlare is a bit far but after looking at the site I think I'll give Jon a shout during the week.

Thanks for the advice.

Baggio...

Gillo wrote: »

Thanks for the offer Baggio, unfortuately Kidlare is a bit far but after looking at the site I think I'll give Jon a shout during the week.

Thanks for the advice.

No worries man. Jon is a very talented instructor and a cool bloke, so drop him a line. Were planning to run monthly workshops at some point - so I might even meet you there sometime.

Cheers,

R.

To answer the OP's question, 27 is not too old to start. I took up kenpo at 27 and the age range in the adults classes I attend is from 17-45.

I love it. It has worked for me in a real-life situation with a drunk, aggressive bloke on the street (I'm female). Suffice to say he backed off real quick.

If blocking and disabling are your interests, give kenpo a shot but I'll give you a tip.... avoid instructors who aren't taking part in the sparring and push-ups!