Civil Eng conracting and consultancy career progressions

breadmonkey

I know there are a couple of people on here working in both areas and I'd like to know what the progression is like from graduate up in both fields. I have a reasonable idea for the consultancy but no idea at all about site.

Even though I have no site experience I'm really beginning to think that I would enjoy the work. I've been thinking about giving contracting a go for a year or so and then re-evaluating.

Any wisdom greatly appreciated!

Voodu Child

It varies. Typically you're looking at spending a couple of years as a site engineer (doing all the setting out, checking levels and dims etc), and then moving towards Senior Engineer (helping the junior engineers, keeping an eye on everything on site, looking ahead on the drawings, querying problems, doing a lot of paperwork, ordering materials etc.).

Once you've been a site engineer and senior engineer long enough to have a good feel for how the industry works, you tend to move towards project management. You don't see that many young project managers around, typically early/mid-30s would be about the youngest ive seen, so that gives an idea of how the progression goes.

As with all things, it can vary a lot. I've seen guys stay on the tools their whole careers (effectively becoming surveyors rather than engineers), other guys are way too green (or useless) for site work and move straight into office-work. Depends what you're good at and what you like doing.

Giving it a go for a year is a mistake a lot of guys make, and end up jacking it in when they cant hack it. It's just not enough time to get a feel for what it's like, that could be just one single project - not an accurate reflection of the job.

breadmonkey

Thanks for the reply. I mean no disrespect but surveying, checking levels etc seems like something that I could have done when I was in 6th year. Just seems like it's a case of grinding it out for a long time before getting into a position of any real responsibility. Have I picked you up wrong?

Voodu Child

For one thing, even a junior site engineer is a position of 'responsibility'.

Unless it's a job/company big enough to have dedicated surveyors, the young site engineer is usually the man setting all points out and checking levels. (Among other things, that's not the only thing you'd be doing). Chances are, the only person double-checking your work is yourself.

A dimensional innacuracy on site can be a f*cking disaster, setting things back weeks and costing huge money, and it's all on the head of the young setting out engineer. If you don't consider that enough responsiblity straight out of college, I don't think you'd be satisfied with any level of responsiblity.

You said in yout first post you thought you'd enjoy site work, but then you said you don't like the sound of using levels and EDMs... what do you think a site engineer does?

You're the guy on the ground making sure all aspects of the construction are technically correct and in accordance with the specs. Whether that means checking a level, setting out points with a total station, marking ope's on shutters, checking the fixers are putting the right steel in....yadda yadda. That's what site engineers do, sure if you don't like the sound of that, there's your question answered, stay away from site work.

And if you consider a couple of years 'a long time' before moving up the ladder, no disrespect, I think you've got an unrealistic view of the real world and/or the working world. Even young design engineers in consultancies can spend a long time doing menial work like checking other engineers calcs etc. before moving up in the world. Your degree doesnt mean squat in the working world, it's experience and results that count, and the only way to get that is with the hard slog.

Irjudge1

Go do the year on site whether you love it hate or are indifferent to it it will be of benefit to you in your career. In the UK the ICE require engineers to gain site experience, something that should be introduced here. Equally site engineers should spend some time in a design office.

By the way if you are starting out now is the time to do it. Before you become dependent on your wage level. In a couple of years it's unlikely you will be able to sustain the same level of wages during a move, as an experienced design engineer is not so useful on site and vice versa.

breadmonkey

For one thing, even a junior site engineer is a position of 'responsibility'.

Unless it's a job/company big enough to have dedicated surveyors, the young site engineer is usually the man setting all points out and checking levels. (Among other things, that's not the only thing you'd be doing). Chances are, the only person double-checking your work is yourself.

That seems a bit odd. I would have thought that everything would get double checked especially given the consequences as you described.

You said in yout first post you thought you'd enjoy site work, but then you said you don't like the sound of using levels and EDMs... what do you think a site engineer does?

Yeah I think the problem is that I don't really have a good understanding.

You're the guy on the ground making sure all aspects of the construction are technically correct and in accordance with the specs. Whether that means checking a level, setting out points with a total station, marking ope's on shutters, checking the fixers are putting the right steel in....yadda yadda. That's what site engineers do, sure if you don't like the sound of that, there's your question answered, stay away from site work.

I suppose I'm looking too far down the line.

And if you consider a couple of years 'a long time' before moving up the ladder, no disrespect, I think you've got an unrealistic view of the real world and/or the working world.

I didn't really explain myself properly. What I meant was that it seems to me that a few years spent surveying/setting out etc. seems like a long time given the type of work. Is it more a case that you're gaining experience by observing what's going on around you even though you yourself might only be involved at a basic level?

Even young design engineers in consultancies can spend a long time doing menial work like checking other engineers calcs etc. before moving up in the world. Your degree doesnt mean squat in the working world, it's experience and results that count, and the only way to get that is with the hard slog.

Believe me, I'm trying not to come across as some gob****e who thinks he automatically gets some sort of entitlement with his degree. I know it doesn't make a difference when it comes to working on the ground.


Anyway, thanks for the insight. I don't know if I'm asking too much here but if you're up for it I'd be really interested to hear your own experience to date (basically how your job changed as you progressed).

Thanks again!

breadmonkey

voodoo_child wrote: »

Giving it a go for a year is a mistake a lot of guys make, and end up jacking it in when they cant hack it. It's just not enough time to get a feel for what it's like, that could be just one single project - not an accurate reflection of the job.

Irjudge1 wrote: »

Go do the year on site whether you love it hate or are indifferent to it it will be of benefit to you in your career

You guys seem to be at odds here!

I wanted to give it a year as I have some experience of what design is like and tbh it didn't really set my world on fire. I'm thinking about doing something completely away from Civil Eng but thought it might be a good idea to give contracting a go before I decide that. I figured it would be good experience regardless???

Voodoo, when you say that a lot of guys who decide to give it a go for a year "jack it in when they can't hack it", do you mean that they give up early or simply when their year is up? It's really not in my nature to throw in the towel so easily and since ideally I'd be working abroad somewhere, I'd be anchored to the job from a financial point of view!

Also, would it be better to go for a huge company with dedicated surveyors etc. since maybe then I would get more experience in other more interesting areas?

And is there anything I could do to give myself a chance of working on an "interesting project" (I'm thinking of dams, tunnels, maybe bridges) as opposed to supervising the laying of asphalt? Or do graduates always start off on something a bit more run-of-the-mill?

Look, I know it's obvious that I know nothing so please bear with me and resist the urge to laugh at me!

Voodu Child

breadmonkey wrote: »

Voodoo, when you say that a lot of guys who decide to give it a go for a year "jack it in when they can't hack it", do you mean that they give up early or simply when their year is up? It's really not in my nature to throw in the towel so easily and since ideally I'd be working abroad somewhere, I'd be anchored to the job from a financial point of view!

Also, would it be better to go for a huge company with dedicated surveyors etc. since maybe then I would get more experience in other more interesting areas?

All I mean is that one year wouldn't be enough time to get a feel for the job.

Yeah, some guys give up early. They finish college and arent sure if they want to go contracting or into consultancy, so they figure they'll 'give it a bash for a year'. You're thrown in at the deep end and it can be daunting and a rude awakening. Going from lazy college days straight into long hours in the pissing rain. One too many boll*ckings from the foreman, or the feeling that they're 'better' than what they're being asked to do etc. And some guys are just plain green, not cut out for site work.

But like I say, your first year won't give you an accurate feel for the job.

A smaller company would be much better than a larger one imo, you'll get a broader range of experience.

Clueless 2

Just my two pence work.

I spent 12 years on site and was a project manager when I finished up.

You will get a lot of experience and a lot of responsibility fast on site. You will screw up some where along the line and cost your company a lot of money. But that is to be expected. Consider it part of your training.

I suggest you try and get in with one of the bigger contracting firms. You will have a much bigger staff set up on site from which to seek advice and a formulised training scheme. With smaller contractors you will just be thrown out onto site and expected to 'multi task'.

Also be aware that site hours can be 7:30 to 5:30 or later. You will be expected to work saturdays as well. It is a tough path and definitely a young man's game. However, the experience you gain will be invaluable and the money is pretty good. Also you could end up working on some big prestigous jobs either here or abroad. Those big jobs can be very interesting.

Best of luck with your decision.

Dundhoone

Well worth getting a short time on site (even a year) as early on as possible. The best experience (also the toughest , but you do get the cash reward) is by working for a contractor. The easier way to go is to get a site supervision job via a consultancy or through the council, but you wont learn as much as fast.

Progression? Same as consultancy - you have to serve you time to get up the chain. Most site guys come into project management desk jobs eventually. But with regard to getting up the ladder, its the best feeling to eventually get your own project,and team, and to be given full control of delivery of that - for me it was a totally different job and one I was much happier to do.

Im glad I stuck it until I got there.

sham08

I highly recommend that you get out on site and experience life as an engineer on the ground, its has huge benefits for your career even if you go back to consultancy as you will have a greater appreciation of how things fit together and your designs will become more practicable ie. specifying crazy reinforcement sizes etc... Yes the hours are long and the work is tiring but it is hugely rewarding and the experience you gain is invaluable. Even in a year you will learn a huge amount and in my opinion be in a much better position to decide whether you want a career in consultancy or contracting,. I think go for a larger contractor as they will have all the proper equipment and better resources for you to learn and you won't have to try and make do with inferior equipment. Best of luck with your decision.

aquascrotum

My experience on this - I've spent the guts of 4 years in a design consultancy and am bored out of my tree, even though I've probably gained a lot more experience than people who graduated with me and am earning a fair bit more. I've been lucky enough to fall in with a small/middlish sized consultancy that rewards ability and effort rather than attendance at ICE / IEI meetings. I've had a fair bit of part time RE work in the last year and its the site work thats the only thing keeping me going - I'm currently trying to get into some of the bigger contractors at the minute as a site engineer.

From the outside looking in it definitely seems as though there is significantly better money to be made, a far greater degree of day-to-day variety in your workload, and theres no doubting that putting something physically in the ground gives a massive sense of achievement and job satisfaction. I was working 50hr weeks in consultancy anyway so the hours and workload really isn't an issue.