Buyer Beware

Silent Partner

Hi,

I amn't sure if this covered in stickys or what but something was highlighted to me yesterday in such a horrible example:

A Chinese girl was trying to sell her jeep. She was heading back to China for 6 months. We ran some checks on the jeep and it was still showing up as having finance attached to it. She said she didn't know anything about any finance. She'd bought the vehicle privately from an ad on the internet and didn't speak a huge amount of English. She couldn't really remember the name of the chap she bought it from and she paid cash for it. She seemed very shook and if she was in on the scam, she's a bloody good actress.
Anyway, in the end, the vehicle, which is worth abut €13k at most, had €18k finance against it. She'd paid €11k for it. All she could do was to surrender the jeep to the bank and go to her local Gardai.
So she's out her €11k and I'm sure will not recover much from the original seller if she can barely remember the guys name. I had to drop her to the train station and she was sobbing all the way. I'd say she's bringing a great impression of Ireland back to China with her.

For those of you who are buying a car privately:
- Finance can often be tied to the vehicle, not the person. (Think of a mortgage as an example). If there's outstanding and defaulted finance on the car, the bank will look for the car, not the person. Please be vigilante. Run a full check on the history of the vehicle through a proper channel. This will check any recorded mileage (so you can see if the car has been clocked) and any outstanding finance. You will be charged a small fee but how much is peace of mind worth?

Wook

sorry to ask, but how do you check this ?

Silent Partner

Wook wrote: »

sorry to ask, but how do you check this ?

There are various websites. I'm not out to promote them but cartell.ie is one.

-Chris-

Silent Partner wrote: »

Hi,

I amn't sure if this covered in stickys or what but something was highlighted to me yesterday in such a horrible example:

A Chinese girl was trying to sell her jeep. She was heading back to China for 6 months. We ran some checks on the jeep and it was still showing up as having finance attached to it. She said she didn't know anything about any finance. She'd bought the vehicle privately from an ad on the internet and didn't speak a huge amount of English. She couldn't really remember the name of the chap she bought it from and she paid cash for it. She seemed very shook and if she was in on the scam, she's a bloody good actress.
Anyway, in the end, the vehicle, which is worth abut €13k at most, had €18k finance against it. She'd paid €11k for it. All she could do was to surrender the jeep to the bank and go to her local Gardai.
So she's out her €11k and I'm sure will not recover much from the original seller if she can barely remember the guys name. I had to drop her to the train station and she was sobbing all the way. I'd say she's bringing a great impression of Ireland back to China with her.

For those of you who are buying a car privately:
- Finance can often be tied to the vehicle, not the person. (Think of a mortgage as an example). If there's outstanding and defaulted finance on the car, the bank will look for the car, not the person. Please be vigilante. Run a full check on the history of the vehicle through a proper channel. This will check any recorded mileage (so you can see if the car has been clocked) and any outstanding finance. You will be charged a small fee but how much is peace of mind worth?

A very important cautionary tale - always make sure the person selling you anything is the same person who owns title to it (be it stolen goods of financed cars)!

I would presume it's easy enough to track the seller - banks don't give credit to people without verifying who they are, where they live etc. The Gardai would also know who the previous owner is.
If the previous owner hasn't reported the car stolen, then it's pretty likely that they're the seller. If it was reported stolen, then that's a much more fundamental problem than outstanding finance...

Atomic Pineapple

same thing happened my cousin, he bought privately off a chinese guy that was returning home and only found out when he went to sell it on that it had 3k finance left on it so he had to go and pay that off to keep the car, finance checks are well worth the money

TwoShedsJackson

If you're interested in a private sale and the seller seems reluctant to give you an address and wants to come meet you with the car instead, would you regard this as dodgy? A friend of mine was in this situation a couple of weeks back and ended up not checking the car etc.

Atomic Pineapple

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

If you're interested in a private sale and the seller seems reluctant to give you an address and wants to come meet you with the car instead, would you regard this as dodgy? A friend of mine was in this situation a couple of weeks back and ended up not checking the car etc.

no, alot of sellers wont want to be giving strangers access to where they live, if you perform a full check like hose on cartell.ie and get the car checked over then theres no need to be concerned about not meeting the seller at there house

timemachine

Just thought I would throw this one into the mix to, as I had car checked out, as I was planning on buying it. If anybody is interested in buying it, be careful. Time belt hasnt been done, despite what seller will tell you. i had an assesor check it out, and did all the other checks on it.

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=867407

promethius

good post tm, 88k on the clock on one elt, not good and your experience shows the worth of a good inspection!

pete4130

First ever car I went to buy, met the guy at his "brothers house" which he didn't come out of. Said the car was in his wifes name the past 6 months but she didn't want it (tax was more than 6 months out of date) and he bought the car from his "neighbour" and it was in his "neighbours" name to keep the number of owners down. He seemed pretty eager to shift the car. Said he would get his "neighbour" to sign the vehicle reg documents that afternoon and put it in my name and send it off if I was to buy.
His story just had too many holes in it. Ended up googling his mobile number and it returned a dozen or so old or running ads selling cars. He was obviously an unregistered small time car dealer which would make his bullsh!t story with his brothers house, wife name, neighbour fit into place.

It's always a good idea to google phone numbers on private sales.
Google the mobile number (with and without gaps between the 087 from this "private sale". The guy seems to have a fair few cars for sale for a private seller!?

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=819488

Tiriel

Thinking of getting a car by private sale shortly - the posts above are great help! Is there anything else that I should be aware of? Meeting in a half-way location to see the car, the photos that were put up don't have the reg. shown (blurred out) so I can't do a check yet anyway.

Is it expensive to get a mechanic to come see it with me? I know I will have to do this as I havne't a clue..

any tips / advice would be great!!!

pete4130

If they are genuine, then they won't have any problems with you seeing the car at their house, bringing you in for a cup of tea etc... if your genuinely interestd and intend to buy. Meeting halfway in a random location sets alarm bells ringing for me. Ask to see some ID to varify that they are the person on the vehicle ownership document. Don't be afraid to ask questions about the car, have a good look at it, lift carpets if you want to etc.... Don't buy on first viewing either or seem too keen. I'm always skeptical of reg's not being shown in pics. Why hide it? Get the reg when you view it and do your cartell.ie or whatever check on it for finance, write off, mileage etc..... Check if the VIN numbers match form the engine and on the chassis etc.

When you ring him up, enquire about "the car" as a private seller should really only have 1 car for sale at a time. If the seller asks "which car?" then that might indicate he is a back street trader, and he's already been dishonest about being a private seller, so why trust anything else he tells you about the car?

I think the AA can do an inspection for about €100, or there are garages (Frank Fahey's) that specialise in it.

Omcd

Silent Partner wrote: »

Hi,

...Run a full check on the history of the vehicle through a proper channel. This will check any recorded mileage (so you can see if the car has been clocked) and any outstanding finance....

How do you know whether or not the mileage on the 'proper channel' is correct ? Are 'proper channels' immune to being clocked ? (Question asked out of bad experience)

colm_mcm

a verifyable main dealer service history is about the only way to verify mileage. NCT could be done after the car was clocked.

JHMEG

Cork_girl wrote: »

Meeting in a half-way location to see the car, the photos that were put up don't have the reg. shown (blurred out) so I can't do a check yet anyway.

It's easy get the reg: phone the seller and ask.

Steve

Omcd wrote: »

How do you know whether or not the mileage on the 'proper channel' is correct ? Are 'proper channels' immune to being clocked ? (Question asked out of bad experience)

Ask to see all of the NCT certs, not jusy the current one. Most good tyre / exhaust places record the milage on the invoice. Look for service stickers on the car and ask to see the invoices - any genuine seller will not have a problem with this.
Old school mechanics will mark somewhere on the timing belt cover when the belt was changed (normally 40-60k mines) e.g. TB54 scratched on the side of the t/b cover.

pred racer

colm_mcm wrote: »

a verifyable main dealer service history is about the only way to verify mileage. NCT could be done after the car was clocked.

main dealer service is useless also, there are guys who work in main dealers that will stamp the book. also, just because it went back to the main dealer every 10k doesnt mean there was only 10k done in that time. a guy I used to know did that- dealer service, run up 10k service it himself, disconnect the clock, run up approx another 10k then back to the dealer!

so the way I do it is. has the car been well looked after? does everything work? does the mileage match the wear on the car? is all the paperwork correct? if all these are yes I will take it for a test drive and consider buying. If any one is no ill walk away.. there are loads of cars out there. I consider myself a fair judge of a car (or I'm a jammy git:)), but none of us are infallible so if there is even a hint of doubt, find something else.

unkel

JHMEG wrote: »

It's easy get the reg: phone the seller and ask.

Indeed. The simplest solutions are often the best. If the seller is at all hesitant to give the reg, you know it's dodgy. If the seller gives the reg, you can run the usual checks

galwaytt

unkel wrote: »

Indeed. The simplest solutions are often the best. If the seller is at all hesitant to give the reg, you know it's dodgy. If the seller gives the reg, you can run the usual checks

I dunno, having had a close shave where I reckon my bike was being lined up for a later 'visit' to take it, I wouldn't volunteer the reg to you over the phone. Too many people have access to database's these days.......

Ditto on meeting at my house, early on. I usually meet in a neutral place, and then make a decision on whether to 'show my hand' as it were.