Like your ballygowan/perrier/evian?

nilhg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/7247130.stm

Producing and delivering a litre of bottled water emits hundreds of times as much greenhouse gas as a litre of tap water.

Then you've got the plastic, only one quarter of which is recycled or the glass that eats so much energy to make and re-use.

Seems as if one of the great marketing successes of our time is going to come under pressure.

SeanW

I very rarely buy bottled water - primarily because I can get nearly as good from the tap without the €1.50 cost. Bottle refilling FTW!

I always wondered why bottling water became such a big business?

djpbarry

SeanW wrote: »

I always wondered why bottling water became such a big business?

It's a triumph of marketing alright; I've never quite understood it myself. I think a lot of people genuinely believe it's healthier than drinking tap water.

Tails142

I always used to laugh at people buying bottled water - but then I moved into an apartment where the water tastes like cock flavoured lollipops and I understood. Always have a few bottles around the place and when I'm out I sometimes buy bottled water as I've grown sick of buying fizzy drinks.

piraka

I have taken to drinking and using bottle water in cooking ever since tap water started to smell and taste of chlorine, especially after heavy rainfall

djpbarry

Tails142 wrote: »

I always used to laugh at people buying bottled water - but then I moved into an apartment where the water tastes like cock flavoured lollipops and I understood.

piraka wrote: »

I have taken to drinking and using bottle water in cooking ever since tap water started to smell and taste of chlorine, especially after heavy rainfall

Lads, if ye're water really tastes that bad then your local council should be doing something about it - complain to them. In the mean time, why not buy a water filter?

DadaKopf

Yeah! Bottled water makes me wanna wretch! Now, I have a bottle of Volvic on my desk at work, but in the past 3 months I must have filled it 200 times.

Triumph of marketing alright. I've often wondered about the psychology behind it. I'm sure it has something to do with purity and advertising-induced insecurity. 'Drink this bottled water and you will be cleansed'.

Have you guys noticed how advertising doesn't sell products or lifestyles, it sells insecurity.

piraka

djpbarry wrote: »

Lads, if ye're water really tastes that bad then your local council should be doing something about it - complain to them. In the mean time, why not buy a water filter?

I'm sick in the face complaining. Why should I have to install a water filter. That's akin to buying bottled water.

djpbarry

piraka wrote: »

Why should I have to install a water filter. That's akin to buying bottled water.

Not really - it's a hell of a lot cheaper.

DadaKopf

You're right, you shouldn't have to when local authorities should provide clean, fresh water themselves.

ircoha

Just watched the programme.

The main problem I see with this issue is that there is no attempt to promote some form of a viable alternative for the situations where liquid, not just water is required. All very fine for the DEFRA head to replace bottled water with a servant running around with jugs of prozac tinted thames tap water.

Take anything from a simple walk in the countryside to sporting events: what is the alternative to liquid replenishment using plastic bottles?.

Glass seemingly has an even bigger carbon footprint.

So what is the alternative: there are serious health issues with refilling plastic bottles unless they are properly sterilised, which usually shrinks them:)

stick-dan

Pity for you al not leaving in the country side, well those that dont. It is a common find that pure country water is much nicer than everyday bottled water. I love country water. Hate living in the town and drinking its water during the week but its ok because once the weekend comes i get the best water in the land again

blindman

Reading this thread made me thirsty.

djpbarry

ircoha wrote: »

So what is the alternative: there are serious health issues with refilling plastic bottles unless they are properly sterilised, which usually shrinks them

Why can't you just wash the thing? Or sterilise it with white spirit if you want to be REALLY safe.

Parnassia

You can buy reusable bottles, e.g. Sigg bottles. Just wash them after use.

probe

Most bottled water sold in Ireland is of poor quality. Just look at the label (not to mention the price ticket) before you buy.

I have a bottle of Vittel in front of me, purchased in France. Delivered by low CO2 electric rail freight.

Price: 57c for a 1.5 litre bottle

Calcium 203.8 mg/l (very high, good for you)
Magnesium 43.1 mg/1 (very high, good for you)
Sodium 5 mg/l (very low – the lower the better – it causes high blood pressure and cardio probs)

Compare with your average bottle of water in Ireland:

The price will be around twice as high in IRL.
The calcium levels in bottled water in Ireland are typically about a quarter of the above.
The sodium levels in Irish bottled water are typically 3 to 6 times as high.

Even the Vittel branded water sold in Ireland (by Coca Cola) has far lower calcium and far higher sodium than the real Vittel sold in France. Fake Vittel? One wonders where they get it from?

There is no point in buying bottled water if it has nothing to offer over tap water.

There is one area where bottled water beats tap water in Ireland. It is not compulsorily medicated.
This is 2008 – not 1948. Most people wash their teeth regularly. Despite this fact, the Irish state continues to medicate the masses via the public water supply with fluoride. A chemical virtually everybody is receiving a more than adequate dose of in their toothpaste. Ireland – a nation overdosed with fluoride due to government incompetence, intrangence and out of date thinking.

Is it too much to expect a clean, healthy, drugfree, un-medicated water supply in Ireland 2008?

.probe

Capt'n Midnight

probe wrote:

There is one area where bottled water beats tap water in Ireland. It is not compulsorily medicated.
This is 2008 – not 1948. Most people wash their teeth regularly. Despite this fact, the Irish state continues to medicate the masses via the public water supply with fluoride. A chemical virtually everybody is receiving a more than adequate dose of in their toothpaste. Ireland – a nation overdosed with fluoride due to government incompetence, intrangence and out of date thinking.

Dental health down here is better than up north, major difference is Flororide.

Tesco's have some Italian water in glass bottles at a daft price somethng like €6 a litre !

AngryHippie

ircoha wrote: »

The main problem I see with this issue is that there is no attempt to promote some form of a viable alternative for the situations where liquid, not just water is required. All very fine for the DEFRA head to replace bottled water with a servant running around with jugs of prozac tinted thames tap water.

Take anything from a simple walk in the countryside to sporting events: what is the alternative to liquid replenishment using plastic bottles?.

Try a platypus bag. Many outdoor pursuits avail of these, many cyclists, canoeists, triathaletes etc that I know use these.
I do drink bottled water myself, I buy 1 bottle of volvic per week, and refill it from the 22 litre fountain at work, 2 or 3 times a day, I make no apologies, It's far nicer to drink than the tap skank, Its chilled and costs me feck all. Is the C02 footprint on the larger containers much less ???
I also use a platypus when I'm going off for a few hours in the countryside, they're expensive initially, but well worth it ..

probe

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Dental health down here is better than up north, major difference is Flororide.

Government spin, put out by the "health" board mafia!

Consumption of fluoridated water can lead to:

1) Dental Fluorosis
2) Bone cancer – particularly in males
3) Kidney disease
4) Brain damage – IQ deficits
5) Damage the pineal gland affecting sexual maturation, cancer and psychiatric diseases
6) Impair the function of the thyroid gland
7) Causes osteodystrophy
8) Increases the risk of bone fracture

http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/

Dental health in Continental Europe where water is not fluoridated is on a par with the US where drinking water is heavily fluoridated.

http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/teeth/caries/who-dmft.html

Only dumb countries like Australia, Ireland, New Zealand and the US poison their public water supply with fluoride.

.probe

Xennon

Tis that diluted stuff ye have to watch out for. :rolleyes:

considering that most people drink ice with their drink in bars, one would wonder how many would do so knowing that its tap water, or is it just one of those 'what you dont know wont kill you' kind of scenarios.

Xennon

Tis that diluted stuff ye have to watch out for. :rolleyes:

considering that most people drink ice with their drink in bars, one would wonder how many would do so knowing that its tap water, or is it just one of those 'what you dont know wont kill you' kind of scenarios.

Since we've been on a boil notice for the past 2 years, I cant trust the mains supply.

DublinWriter

Tails142 wrote: »

the water tastes like cock flavoured lollipops

LOL.

The water is exceptionally hard where I am in Meath and as a consequence tastes like gack and also furs up all the appliances and heating system.

Therefore I am normally forced into buying either Evian or San Pelegrano and calling out a plumber at least 4 times a year to clean out the boiler.

But in the long term I'm looking at getting a filter put on the mains and going back to tap.

Still, it's not as expensive as the water those crazy Japanese get by towing whole ice-bergs back to the Land of the Rising Sun and then flog it for about €500 a bottle. Anyone know what it's called?

Macha

probe wrote: »

Government spin, put out by the "health" board mafia!

Consumption of fluoridated water can lead to:

1) Dental Fluorosis
2) Bone cancer – particularly in males
3) Kidney disease
4) Brain damage – IQ deficits
5) Damage the pineal gland affecting sexual maturation, cancer and psychiatric diseases
6) Impair the function of the thyroid gland
7) Causes osteodystrophy
8) Increases the risk of bone fracture

http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/

Dental health in Continental Europe where water is not fluoridated is on a par with the US where drinking water is heavily fluoridated.

http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/teeth/caries/who-dmft.html

Only dumb countries like Australia, Ireland, New Zealand and the US poison their public water supply with fluoride.

.probe

Just thought you might want to read this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/feb/09/medicalresearch.health

Other great articles in this Bad Science column. I especially like the one that explains that in the 1800s pink was the colour for boys & blue for girls

Capt'n Midnight

San Pellingrino Six pack of glass bottles
Tesco have them for €2.90 / Litre

simu

Flown from Italy :P

I have some of those Sigg bottles - it's a pity they're not distributed better. They only seem to be available online or in sports stores.

Húrin

DublinWriter wrote: »

LOL.

The water is exceptionally hard where I am in Meath and as a consequence tastes like gack and also furs up all the appliances and heating system.

Therefore I am normally forced into buying either Evian or San Pelegrano and calling out a plumber at least 4 times a year to clean out the boiler.

Did any of you people who live in areas with crap water ever think of demanding clean tap water, as is your right from your county councils? Better than forking out for the bottled stuff all your life.

AngryHippie

you cant.
You can demand that the water be potable, but you have no gauranteed rights as to water taste or hardness. that is your lookout, from the local authority point of view.

skatz

I am annoyed with these questions about water. We all know that tap water is pure poison because of the chlorine (just having a shower gives you 1/3 of your RDA) and flouride - Lethal. I have done as much research as a man can do. Did you know that bottling companies are not obliged to display on labels how much flouride is in their water. The reason for this ..... you tell me ????
Does anyone know how much flouride is in bottled water ?????

djpbarry

skatz wrote: »

We all know that tap water is pure poison because of the chlorine

Try drinking water that hasn't been chlorinated and let me know how you get on.

Capt'n Midnight

skatz wrote:

I am annoyed with these questions about water. We all know that tap water is pure poison because of the chlorine (just having a shower gives you 1/3 of your RDA)

Sea water is 1.5% chlorine, just 5 litres of the stuff contains as much chlorine as the average human which has gotta be over the RDA . Let's ban seawater.

Anyone worried about ions in their water can use a ion-exchanger to remove them.

skatz

I understand that water has to have SOME chlorine in it to kill bugs and things, but not enough in evey glass to pollute a small harbour.

Flouride, no need for it at all !! Do we really need a toxic waste product of the aluminium industry .. a known carcinogen ... in our drinking water.

A water engineer friend of mine (works on large projects for various councils) has a well drilled in his garden because he would not drink the water coming throught the "tap system"

I ask again does anyone know how much (if any) flouride is in bottled water ???

BTW ... What has sea water got to do with it ??? FYI if you took the salt out of (clean) seawater you could live on it because of all the nutrients, vitamins and minerals in it.

AngryHippie

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Sea water is 1.5% chlorine, just 5 litres of the stuff contains as much chlorine as the average human which has gotta be over the RDA . Let's ban seawater.

I think that chlorine might be locked up in Sodium Chloride molecules though, Pool water contains 1.5-2.5 parts per million chlorine, thats would be 0.000015 per cent chlorine, The feckin sea would reek of the **** if the % was that high. And you want to be an awful foolish donkey to drink 2 litres of sea water a day, It would kill you from salt poisoning within a few days. Yeah, lets ban the ****. Worse than coke...:D

Húrin

I reckon that there is no need for the government to add flouride to the water in this day and age but some of the paranoia is ridiculous. I've been drinking Rathmines tap water all my life (22 years) and I've never got sick from it. Bottled water is a scam; truly marketing winning over common sense.

Carawaystick

skatz wrote: »

I am annoyed with these questions about water. We all know that tap water is pure poison because of the chlorine (just having a shower gives you 1/3 of your RDA) and flouride - Lethal. I have done as much research as a man can do. Did you know that bottling companies are not obliged to display on labels how much flouride is in their water. The reason for this ..... you tell me ????
Does anyone know how much flouride is in bottled water ?????

Maybe a few references from all the research you've done to show how chlorine gets into your body from the low concentration in shower water?

the WHO recommend more than 750mg per day of chlorine for adults. [1]

Most showers in Ireland get their water form the attic tank, so most of the chlorine will have outgassed into your attic


[1] http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/nutrientschap4.pdf

skatz

Chlorine is a biocide, it kills living things, I don't know about you but I don't want that s@*t in or around me thanks. I know there is allegedly only 'safe' amounts in tap water, but you could argue that topic forever, like a 'safe' level of radiation or a 'safe' level of pesticides in our food. 'Safe' levels of emissions from our cars ???? the list is endless :mad:

As for Flouride ... a known carcinogen and a neurotoxin, flouride has been proven to be in-effective in preventing cavities, in fact, in countries where they banned it in the water supply, dental health improved (By the way, it is in most toothpastes and some vitamin supplements as well !!!). It has never been properly-proven to be safe for consumption.

http://www.fluoridation.com/c-country.htm

So can anyone tell me does the bottled water on sale in Ireland contain flouride ?? Or better still does anyone know of a brand that definately does not contain it !

djpbarry

skatz wrote: »

Chlorine is a biocide, it kills living things, I don't know about you but I don't want that s@*t in or around me thanks.

In sufficiently high concentrations it can kill, yes. But then, so can oxygen.

skatz wrote: »

I know there is allegedly only 'safe' amounts in tap water, but you could argue that topic forever...

So don't drink it then. Why don't you collect rainwater and use that as your water supply?

skatz wrote: »

As for Flouride ... a known carcinogen and a neurotoxin...

Fluorides are not known to be either carcinogenic or neurotoxic.

skatz wrote: »

So can anyone tell me does the bottled water on sale in Ireland contain flouride ??

Most bottlers do not add fluoride:

http://www.medpagetoday.com/PrimaryCare/DentalHealth/tb/1756

skatz

Yep too much of anything is bad for us, but it would be nice for a glass of water not to smell like a swimming pool. Water has to have some chlorine, but not too much, Thanks

"So Don't drink it" --- Thats why I came here in the first place, to find an alternative.

"Flouride not carcinogenic or neurotoxin", come on, where do you want me to start ....

http://www.ewg.org/node/22429

http://www.nuresearch.net/?page_id=6

http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/brain/index.html#human

Finally my original question seems to be answered - "Most Bottlers do not add flouride" ... At last .. thank you

Capt'n Midnight

Back in 1964 the file Dr Strangelove was released, the plot involved starting a nuclear war over fluoridation of water. So two generations ago scaremongering over fluoridation was well known to the general public. Despite 100's of millions taking fluoride in the worlds richest countries, with most of the worlds lawyers , its still in use, because there aren't proven health risks.

Mineral water contains minerals, the clue is in the name. To sell mineral water without dissolved anions would probably break the trade descriptions act. And I'd much rather have Chloride / Fluoride ions than Nitrates / Nitrites.

skatz

Now we are quoting old films with some kind of historical significance ??????

Anyway ... A Chloride (salt) is not the same as chlorine

OK. Not many people know this .....

At the moment every person in Ireland is being charged for water ... OK .. bear with me on this.

Right now the EU is paying your bill for your water usage... that's nice of them eh ?

But from next year that will stop ... FULL STOP !!!
It was the government/EU plan to have all businesses water metered by 2007, most are by now. Ask your friendly restaurant/bar owner (or any business) are they better off !

Now for part 2 of this story.
By 2010 all households (ie every person) is to be Water Metered. Lets see how expensive bottled water compares when you have a water bill to compare it to. (Dont forget the standing charge, line rental fee, and of course VAT) just think how small your ESB bill would be without those !

If you do not believe how expensive water is going to get, try asking your local hospital, care home, or any large establishment where lots of people are 'stored', what future plans they have regarding water. There is surely to be a mention of a water recycling plant. (That is if they will talk to you)

Also included in the 2010 metering charge will be an individual fee for discharging sewage. (Tough sh1t) Need I say more !!!

They say ignorance is bliss ... Not really .. Ignorance is Stupid !!

Tomk1

The last few years I have had stomach problems, the other day I read that most of my local water supplies have been contaminated with e-coil and ongoing. mybe it is a council ploy to start charging, they already charge for recycling if you go to the council civic amenities here.

skatz

Like I said, councils are already charging you for your water, it's just that at the moment, the EU is picking up your tab. The fact that you will be getting a water bill directly from 2010 is hardly going to make the water any cleaner.

As far as your e coli goes, collidal silver seems to be an effective and safe antibiotic, have a look at this http://www.naturalnews.com/010038.html

djpbarry

skatz wrote: »

"Flouride not carcinogenic or neurotoxin", come on, where do you want me to start ....

Unless I am very much mistaken, fluorides have not been proven to be either carcinogenic or neurotoxic. There is SOME evidence that they MAY be, but certainly nothing that constitutes proof (beyond reasonable doubt). In fact, there is even evidence for the theory that fluorides PREVENT cancer.

skatz wrote: »

As far as your e coli goes, collidal silver seems to be an effective and safe antibiotic, have a look at this http://www.naturalnews.com/010038.html

Hang on now; you've spent this whole thread complaining about fluorides and chlorine in your water supply, but your happy enough to ingest silver?

skatz

If a garage said to you, "here's your car, I can't prove beyond reasonable doubt that the wheels wont fall off, but take it anyway" would you be happy to take to your nearest motorway just to see what happens..... I don't think so. But your quite happy to drink a potentially poisonous liquid !!!!

Flouride is a neurotoxin, Chloride kills all biological life that it comes in contact with. Silver is not a poison

Anyway I joined here a few weeks ago to find out if there is flouride in bottled water, I am still none the wiser, so I think I will be off.

Good Luck All ...

djpbarry

skatz wrote: »

If a garage said to you, "here's your car, I can't prove beyond reasonable doubt that the wheels wont fall off, but take it anyway" would you be happy to take to your nearest motorway just to see what happens..... I don't think so.

Of course not, but such a scenario is highly unlikely. If I bring a car to a competent serviceman, I'm quite sure that he can guarantee that the probability of the wheels on the car suddenly "falling off" is extremely low. He cannot prove that it DEFINITELY will not happen, but neither can he prove that the car will DEFINTIELY not suddenly take to the skies.

skatz wrote: »

But your quite happy to drink a potentially poisonous liquid !!!!

The potential risk to my health posed by tap water is acceptably low (i.e., there is virtually no risk) and as such, I am happy to drink it. Nothing you have produced thus far has convinced me otherwise.

skatz wrote: »

Flouride is a neurotoxin...

Once again, that is not a matter of fact. If scientific evidence is produced that shows conclusively that fluorides have significant neurological effects, then I will certainly alter my position:

"To determine the possible adverse effects of fluoride, additional data from both the experimental and the clinical sciences are needed."
from Fluoride in Drinking Water: A Scientific Review of EPA's Standards authored by the Board on Environmental Studies and Toxicology and Earth and Life Studies.

Besides, fluoride ions are naturally present in groundwater.

skatz wrote: »

Chloride kills all biological life that it comes in contact with.

I believe you're referring to chlorine. I imagine just about everyone reading this thread has come into contact with chlorine at some point in their lives, most on a regular basis, but everyone's still here (and in good health too, I'll wager).

skatz wrote: »

Silver is not a poison

It most certainly is; in large enough doses it causes argyria.

AngryHippie

Yeah, I work in a pool, I deal with High test Hypochlorite everyday, Its nasty stuff in high concentrations, but the levels necessary in water treatment do not rise above 2.5 Parts per million, Most of this reacts pretty swiftly with any Biological content in the water and becomes locked into a salt molecule (chloride) Free Chlorine ions are the potentially dangerous ones, and by the time it gets to tap, the levels of these are low. Very low. There is a good chance you get more chlorine from your dishwasher if you use one than from the water supply. Besides, If its gonna kill you it'll do it very very slowly, so slowly that you would probably have died from genetic predisposition before it gets ya, so I wouldn't get carried away with moaning about it. Without it you would have a variety of water borne illnesses that would remove the young and old without remorse. Unless you want to go boiling the entire water supply, But that would be another green issue entirely imo.

Capt'n Midnight

skatz wrote: »

If a garage said to you, "here's your car, I can't prove beyond reasonable doubt that the wheels wont fall off, but take it anyway" would you be happy to take to your nearest motorway just to see what happens..... I don't think so. But your quite happy to drink a potentially poisonous liquid !!!!

see more on http://dhmo.org

Flouride is a neurotoxin, Chloride kills all biological life that it comes in contact with. Silver is not a poison

Oh boy - don't even know where to begin, Chloride in an biological /enviromnental reference would most likely refer to sodium chloride which is essential for life.
please post some MSDS info

Anyway I joined here a few weeks ago to find out if there is flouride in bottled water, I am still none the wiser, so I think I will be off.

Good Luck All ...

RTFM - if chlorides are listed then
fluorides will be too.





Back in 1964 was the film Dr Strangelove. Part of the plot was a military commander so freaked out by fluoridation that he was prepared to launch a nuclear war over it. Even then it was seen as scaremongering rather than a real issue
1964 , anyone old enough to have seen the film has probably retired by now. Two generations since and hundreds of millions of people still use it every day.

yoshx

you were right about the water charge , u just got the dates wrong

skatz wrote: »

Now we are quoting old films with some kind of historical significance ??????

Anyway ... A Chloride (salt) is not the same as chlorine

OK. Not many people know this .....

At the moment every person in Ireland is being charged for water ... OK .. bear with me on this.

Right now the EU is paying your bill for your water usage... that's nice of them eh ?

But from next year that will stop ... FULL STOP !!!
It was the government/EU plan to have all businesses water metered by 2007, most are by now. Ask your friendly restaurant/bar owner (or any business) are they better off !

Now for part 2 of this story.
By 2010 all households (ie every person) is to be Water Metered. Lets see how expensive bottled water compares when you have a water bill to compare it to. (Dont forget the standing charge, line rental fee, and of course VAT) just think how small your ESB bill would be without those !

If you do not believe how expensive water is going to get, try asking your local hospital, care home, or any large establishment where lots of people are 'stored', what future plans they have regarding water. There is surely to be a mention of a water recycling plant. (That is if they will talk to you)

Also included in the 2010 metering charge will be an individual fee for discharging sewage. (Tough sh1t) Need I say more !!!

They say ignorance is bliss ... Not really .. Ignorance is Stupid !!

djpbarry

yoshx wrote: »

you were right about the water charge , u just got the dates wrong

There is rarely a good reason for dragging up a five year-old thread.