Is there any come back on a medical operation

siochain

Hi all,

Is there any come back on a medical operation if you’re not happy with the results?

Lets say you had 3 constant visits (e100 each) and a knee cartilage operation and the results are not what you expected. If I want to have some follow up visits with the consultant should I be charged for the appointments?

UrbanFox

Yes and no.

In simple terms, the standard required of a doctor is that they will bring all reasonable skill and care to bear on the matter they are dealing with.

The law does not require doctors to bring an absolutely superb standard of care to bear. Some situations may require the exercise of a very high degree of skill but if the doctor brings such skill to bear as it is reasonable to expect they will be regarded as having discharged their duty of care. This may appear somewhat subtle but it is the general view on the issue.

Also, doctors have a duty to warn you of any potential hazards or limitations attaching to any treatment in order that you may make an informed decision in consenting to anything. I do not think that any doctor will actually tell you that they will guarantee a particular outcome for the simple reason that they can't !!

There is the option of a second opinion but that can often end up with a different person saying exactly the same thing as you were told the first time. Flippancy aside, a second opinion is a reasonable idea if you are seriously dissatisifed.

tallaght01

Just becuase the operation hasn't been a total success doesn't mean that the surgeon cocked it up. You can sometime sput all the stuff back in the right places, but it just doesn't work.

Operations have success rates. And that means some of them won't work. You should have been told this beforehand.

Plus, bear in mind that it can take ages for the benefits of an operation to kick in. Have a chat to your surgeon about any concerns you have.

siochain

tallaght01 wrote: »

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Plus, bear in mind that it can take ages for the benefits of an operation to kick in. Have a chat to your surgeon about any concerns you have.

but that chat will cost me E100, thats where my questions lies, should I have to fork out another E100 for a consultation on the same issue?

tallaght01

siochain wrote: »

but that chat will cost me E100, thats where my questions lies, should I have to fork out another E100 for a consultation on the same issue?

Yes, by and large.

N8

I would agree for the most part that you pay for the service not the result, for example if you had engaged an oncologist but you still die from the cancer it does not mean the physician has not done his best.

The only quandary in this is if your surgeon did not recommend a more conservative route i.e. one not requiring surgery and the resultant problem you have now is as a result of that surgery.

DrIndy

N8 wrote: »

I would agree for the most part that you pay for the service not the result, for example if you had engaged an oncologist but you still die from the cancer it does not mean the physician has not done his best.

The only quandary in this is if your surgeon did not recommend a more conservative route i.e. one not requiring surgery and the resultant problem you have now is as a result of that surgery.

a good doctor should recommend both - particularily a non-life saving operation where you can live albeit in pain or disabled.

For all the best treatment with the best surgeon, sometimes it just doesn't work. You should chat with your consultant about it anyway.

siochain

though as much, thanks for the confirmation.

hunnymonster

Not that it is any consolation to you but €100 is actually kind of reasonable for a consultant. The last two I've seen are a gynaecologist and an orthopaedic surgeon and they were both €160/10 min. Not that I begrudge them a single cent of it. No amount of money would pay me to do what medical doctors do.

N8

hunnymonster wrote: »

Not that it is any consolation to you but €100 is actually kind of reasonable for a consultant. The last two I've seen are a gynaecologist and an orthopaedic surgeon and they were both €160/10 min. Not that I begrudge them a single cent of it. No amount of money would pay me to do what medical doctors do.

Good attitude - I always wondered about those people wanting to bring their bodies for care to the lowest bidder....

siochain

N8 wrote: »

Good attitude - I always wondered about those people wanting to bring their bodies for care to the lowest bidder....

not sure how serious your comment is, but some people in this country struggle with these high medical costs, yes I fully agree that nurses and doctors do a great job in difficult conditions but GP and consultant fees are crazy.

N8

siochain wrote: »

not sure how serious your comment is, but some people in this country struggle with these high medical costs, yes I fully agree that nurses and doctors do a great job in difficult conditions but GP and consultant fees are crazy.

It was a serious comment and given the responsibility of the jobs you are commenting upon, the length of time to accumulate the knowledge required, the expense of maintaining premises, insurance and ongoing education, the pressure of expectation - how much is a plumber call out these days?

This is a wide ranging topic and probably one for a separate thread but my comment is serious and no reflection on people struggling with fees or their support but focused on justifiability of health care fees.

siochain

N8 wrote: »

It was a serious comment and given the responsibility of the jobs you are commenting upon, the length of time to accumulate the knowledge required, the expense of maintaining premises, insurance and ongoing education, the pressure of expectation - how much is a plumber call out these days?

This is a wide ranging topic and probably one for a separate thread but my comment is serious and no reflection on people struggling with fees or their support but focused on justifiability of health care fees.

We all make informed decisions about our careers, if you’re asking me to feel sorry for consultants churning out clients every 5-10minutes like a conveyor belt you’re knocking on the wrong door. Yes there are plenty of people in the health industry working hard and long hours and do an outstanding job and they have my up most respect.

If you want to talk about plumbers: If paid a plumber to fix my boiler I would expect it to work and if it didn’t work I would be expecting him get it right at no additional cost.

tallaght01

siochain wrote: »

We all make informed decisions about our careers, if you’re asking me to feel sorry for consultants churning out clients every 5-10minutes like a conveyor belt you’re knocking on the wrong door. Yes there are plenty of people in the health industry working hard and long hours and do an outstanding job and they have my up most respect.

If you want to talk about plumbers: If paid a plumber to fix my boiler I would expect it to work and if it didn’t work I would be expecting him get it right at no additional cost.

If your plumber tried to fix it, doing everything he was supposed to have done, but your boiler was just clapped out, do you think he wouldn't charge you?

As for cosultants churning out patients every 5-10 mins. Those guys were working their nuts off doing 120 hour weeks for crap money for donkeys years, while no-one gave a toss about what they earned. So, don't just start getting worried about what docs earn when they get to the top of the pile!

Dr Galen

siochain wrote: »

We all make informed decisions about our careers, if you’re asking me to feel sorry for consultants churning out clients every 5-10minutes like a conveyor belt you’re knocking on the wrong door. Yes there are plenty of people in the health industry working hard and long hours and do an outstanding job and they have my up most respect.

If you want to talk about plumbers: If paid a plumber to fix my boiler I would expect it to work and if it didn’t work I would be expecting him get it right at no additional cost.

unfortunatly the human body and a boiler don't quite equate, especially in terms of "fixing" them.

The simple fact is that we don't have a magic pill for every sickness or a magic x-ray that tells us whats wrong everytime someone walks into hospital or a dr's surgery......usually its a process of elimination, ruling things in and out til you come up with the right answer..Sometimes this takes 5 mins, sometimes 5 hours, or days, or months or in some unfortunate cases years.

thats not saying I don't have sympathy. On a personal level I've got my issues with paying so much for GP and Consultant fee's, but at the end of the day if they fix me up then I'll be happy.

siochain

tallaght01 wrote: »

If your plumber tried to fix it, doing everything he was supposed to have done, but your boiler was just clapped out, do you think he wouldn't charge you?

N8 introduced the plumber into the equation and is taking topic of track, I would expect a good plumber to decide the boiler is clapper out on the first visit. Then I could look for a second opinion or ask him to replace.

tallaght01 wrote: »

As for cosultants churning out patients every 5-10 mins. Those guys were working their nuts off doing 120 hour weeks for crap money for donkeys years, while no-one gave a toss about what they earned. So, don't just start getting worried about what docs earn when they get to the top of the pile!

Again the make in informed decision to join the medical profession maybe the handy golden pot at the end of the rainbow helps them get through it. I can certainly assure you I am in no way worried about.

siochain

Funny how this tread kind of reminds me of actually going to the doc or a consultant, you go in looking for advice and it you suggest something or challenge their recommendation they get up on their almighty high horse and don’t like it at all.

Chunky Monkey

siochain wrote: »

Again the make in informed decision to join the medical profession maybe the handy golden pot at the end of the rainbow helps them get through it. I can certainly assure you I am in no way worried about.

There are a lot more medical graduates than there are consultants posts. So not everyone gets that 'handy golden pot'. And I don't think 'handy' quite equates with 120 hour weeks, huge amount of pressure, high level of responsibility, trying to learn as you work and topped with the people you're helping saying 'sure you have a handy pot of gold coming up'.

Considering that work experience isn't a requisite for med school applications here, I think there are a lot of 17/18 year olds who aren't making an informed decision when they decide to apply.

I'm not saying that doctors always get it right and I'm not saying you should revere them and see them as gods but why would you challenge their decision when they have studied and had experience for years and you have probably just looked something up on the internet the night before?

2Scoops

Chunky Monkey wrote: »

I'm not saying that doctors always get it right and I'm not saying you should revere them and see them as gods but why would you challenge their decision when they have studied and had experience for years and you have probably just looked something up on the internet the night before?

Equally, if you know something your doctor doesn't, be it from the internet or anywhere else, there is no harm in challenging him/her. S/He should be able to defend his/her position easily, if s/he's right. If s/he isn't, the new information could improve your prognosis immeasurably. Respecting someone's experience does not, and should not, include blind trust.

Chunky Monkey

My dad suggested something to his GP once and he turned out to be right about it. I didn't say there was anything wrong about suggesting but there's a difference between suggesting something and challenging someone's decision.

siochain

Chunky Monkey wrote: »

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I'm not saying that doctors always get it right and I'm not saying you should revere them and see them as gods but why would you challenge their decision when they have studied and had experience for years and you have probably just looked something up on the internet the night before?

Because GP's can't possible keep up with all the latest developments in all areas of medicine, I have several examples of where a GP challenged about some decisions and they (GP) were wrong.