Institute of Technology or University Degree?

Sully

I made a point that University Degrees are often chosen by employers over IT Degrees. One person disagrees, and says it doesn't make any difference to employers that a degree is a degree at the end of the day. I agree with that he said, but I personally thought that was not the reality of it all.

So, has anyone here graduated with a IT Degree and found that when you applied for a job a person with a Uni Degree was picked ahead of you?

bleg

a degree is a level 8 qualification no matter what type of institution awards it to you

Madison breslin

Sully wrote: »

I made a point that University Degrees are often chosen by employers over IT Degrees. One person disagrees, and says it doesn't make any difference to employers that a degree is a degree at the end of the day. I agree with that he said, but I personally thought that was not the reality of it all.

So, has anyone here graduated with a IT Degree and found that when you applied for a job a person with a Uni Degree was picked ahead of you?

I have an IT Degree in legal studies with taxation and had no problem getting a job - my degree course was 4 years which meant we covered more areas than most degrees of a 3year duration. i do know that Uni degree people also applied for this job. but i do c what ur saying re a uni degree - it sounds better but is the content of the degrees any different? this is probably what they look at b4 deciding whats best? although mayb not as there is alot of people who will always believe a uni degree is way better. if only we all knew what employers were looking 4!

Red Hand

Depends on the discipline you choose. For instance, the IT I went to had a great emphasis on lab practicals in the science based course I did. Plus, classes are smaller and the lecturer usually knows your name (which is good-they often got on people's cases if they didn't show up for class).

Maybe its different for other disciplines, but most of the people in my section at work which is science based are from ITs.

helimachoptor

IT (Institute of Technology) Degree

In my company, most of the guys have their qualifications from IT's, Maybe about 15% have degree's from Uni's, me being one of them.

I dont think it bothered the company what qualfication you had aslong as you can do the work.

We all started out on the same pay but I've done things and gained good experience which would put me ahead in the pay stakes i would imagine (i should hope!) Come September I will be applying to do a new BSc in an IT, I would have done it in a Uni but now they are awkward for me to get to.

TBH i think there is a stigma attached to getting your degree from an IT rather than a Uni, but in my case someone from an IT got a job before me as they're degree was seen as more practical based than mine so its not every employer.

bleg

bleg wrote: »

a degree is a level 8 qualification no matter what type of institution awards it to you

Unless it's a level 7 degree

For the OP, it depends what you want to do really.

Sully

Sully wrote: »

I agree with that he said.

Moonbaby conjures up images of a hairy beer belly for you?

Sully

Moonbaby wrote: »

Moonbaby conjures up images of a hairy beer belly for you?

Hush baby, hush

buckfast4me

Doesn't matter

dont think it really matters to be honest. The managar where I did my work placement with IT)seemed to prefer graduates from an I.T. because the grads had more "hands on" kinda work. But if its something like business studies, then maybe a manager would prefer the degree from a university.

I think your poll would be more effective if it had a it doesn't matter option.

Sully

Myth wrote: »

For the OP, it depends what you want to do really.

Okay, so it does happen but not all the time - where then, does a Uni degree be picked over an IT Degree? I know the degree is the degree but I thought employers might feel the Uni one would be of "better quality" with regards to material and lecturers?

buckfast4me

buckfast4me wrote: »

But if its something like business studies, then maybe a manager would prefer the degree from a university.

I have alot of friends in Business, it doesn't seem to matter a bit. Except for accountancy where it is more beneficial to do it in an IT.

Sully

Moonbaby wrote: »

I think your poll would be more effective if it had a it doesn't matter option.

My bad - ill get it sorted.

Sully

Sully wrote: »

Okay, so it does happen but not all the time - where then, does a Uni degree be picked over an IT Degree? I know the degree is the degree but I thought employers might feel the Uni one would be of "better quality" with regards to material and lecturers?

Not specifically down to the Uni, it's more down to the course. I'm working at the moment with plenty of people who went to the same college as me (though from different years - Trinity btw) but there are also plenty of people from other colleges (including ITs). In the end, they would probably care most about the course itself then the college, and even still they're generally more interested in you and what you can do instead of what letters you have after your name.

Plus, as has been said in another thread in this forum about useless degrees, experience is really what employers are after. However, if you're looking to go into academia then the Uni is better, simply down to the whole point of an IT. But then again, if you can show that you're an excellent student from an IT etc. etc. etc... there's no one answer here

Btw, this would really suit the Education forum.

buckfast4me

Doesn't matter

Moonbaby wrote: »

I have alot of friends in Business, it doesn't seem to matter a bit. Except for accountancy where it is more beneficial to do it in an IT.

true. im in my final year of a degree in an I.T. , it was a 4 year course (level 8 / 60 ECTS credits) and writing my thesis at the moment which has to be minumum 25,000 words excluding reference. My friend doin business degree in a uni only has to do a 10,000 word 1 for the same level 8 degree.!

Red Hand

Sully wrote: »

Okay, so it does happen but not all the time - where then, does a Uni degree be picked over an IT Degree? I know the degree is the degree but I thought employers might feel the Uni one would be of "better quality" with regards to material and lecturers?

Well, I guess in certain disciplines, there would be bias towards Unis. I mean, ITs as a rule don't have much to do with the humanities, do they? At least not as much as Unis. Plus, it may look good if you say that you Professor so and so was one of your teachers...Professors sound so much better than lecturers!

ellenmelon

id say it depends on the course and to an extent the person. some people prefer the purely written based stuff over the practical side..some people the opposite (a broad generalisation i know..just an example) im currently at a private training institution doing a degree but we arent a university, neither are we a IT. our degrees are accredited through a major university here so theyre 'real' degrees. so are the diploma's and advanced diploma's available. its a highly practical/'real world situations' course with assignments etc also so i am lucky to get the best of both worlds. some people that have come from university find the lack of straight book work hard, whereas i find it good that i dont have the pressure of many essays etc. im not stupid by any means, im quite intelligent but i just dont enjoy pure bookwork.

aaaand i think ive gone off topic.

Sam Vimes

IT (Institute of Technology) Degree

i have the unusual experience of having been to both an IT and a uni. I did a cert in an IT and then transferred to the uni for the degree.

when i transferred to uni there was a massive leap in both the amount and difficulty of work that had to be done. I'd been able to coast along in the IT getting As and Bs without doing any real work but the same wasn't true in the uni. I considered dropping out in the first semester and going back to the IT. I'm glad i didn't though because i ended up with a first

there was a lot of what could be best described as hand holding in the IT but i was expected to do a lot more on my own in uni.

in my case i think the uni degree was better because i was pushed a lot harder. And contrary to what a previous poster said, there was a good bit of personal attention because there were only 20 in the class. That wouldn't be true of all courses though

Jeebus

IT (Institute of Technology) Degree

Different circumstances for different degrees.

ScumLord

Ele.. san seo, are onboat,. but sure tghat's the craci. ?

Whats can thosua do abiout it likr ansoe

Sam Vimes

IT (Institute of Technology) Degree

ScumLord wrote: »

Ele.. san seo, are onboat,. but sure tghat's the craci. ?

Whats can thosua do abiout it likr ansoe

now that's a drunken post

buckfast4me

Doesn't matter

Commander Vimes wrote: »

i have the unusual experience of having been to both an IT and a uni. I did a cert in an IT and then transferred to the uni for the degree.

when i transferred to uni there was a massive leap in both the amount and difficulty of work that had to be done.

Err.. it also might be due to the fact that certs are generally much easier than degrees? lol !!

Naikon

Doesn't matter

Why does the poll not include non university/IT institutions such as DIT or the private colleges?.
A "traditional" University degree may be seen in the eyes of employers to carry more weight, but at the end of the day the person should be taken on their own merits and not which college they emerged from.
A person does have other desirable attributes besides their academic qualifications.

There is a common misconception that non university degrees are "easier". I would argue that a large number of low points courses can't fill their courses due to the diffiulty of the said courses.
Low points course != easy ride so to speak, at least not in my course.

I have a friend studying arts who is shocked at the number of contact hours I have per week in my course(DIT).
To the point though, it really depends on the course and goals.
Would people disagree that say for example a degree from MIT in the states is any less valuable than a "real" Institution?
I have to go with the IT option due to lack of choice tbh.

Sam Vimes

IT (Institute of Technology) Degree

buckfast4me wrote: »

Err.. it also might be due to the fact that certs are generally much easier than degrees? lol !!

the cert was a two year course after which you could continue on to a diploma and then a degree. it wasn't possible to apply to the degree course. you had to do the cert and diploma course first so it was effectively a degree course that you could drop out of early with a qualification.

i did two years in the IT and then transferred into second year and they'd done more in one year than i'd done in two. there's no way the IT degree course could have covered the same amount of stuff as the uni course and from talking to my old class i know they didn't. so lol youself

Sam Vimes

IT (Institute of Technology) Degree

Naikon wrote: »

Why does the poll not include non university/IT institutions such as DIT

i'm confused. DIT is an IT institution. it says IT right there in the name

buckfast4me

Doesn't matter

Commander Vimes wrote: »

the cert was a two year course after which you could continue on to a diploma and then a degree. it wasn't possible to apply to the degree course. you had to do the cert and diploma course first so it was effectively a degree course that you could drop out of early with a qualification.

i did two years in the IT and then transferred into second year and they'd done more in one year than i'd done in two. there's no way the IT degree course could have covered the same amount of stuff as the uni course and from talking to my old class i know they didn't. so lol youself

You didn't say that in your first post, you compared a 2 year certificate course in an institute of technology, with a 4 year degree course in a university.

Obviously the degree is going to be more difficult, because those courss es with exit points after year 2,3,4 are a LOT differently structured from a 4 year straight degree course. Have a read of this thread about DT249 in DIT (it's the cert/diploma/degree course with exit points) and particularly BrandonBlock's post which I can say is true. The 4 year course with exit points (DT249) in 2nd year they have around 8 hours lectures/labs per week, whereas in the 4 year straight course (228) 2nd year consists of around 36 hours per week and doing 11 subjects. In general workloads are much higher in degree courses, compared to cert->diploma->degree courses, whethere you are in an IT or a university.

sunnyjim

I would like to introduce myself as the counterpart to Commander Vimes.

I did 3 years in a University, and this year have switched to an IT, after I dropped out. I have covered more and learned more in the past 6 months then I did in the previous 3 years. More opportunities to learn, greater staff dedication, better relationships with industry etc

Most importantly, less academic idiots. You know the type - no doddery types who can't run ****e.

Naikon

Doesn't matter

Commander Vimes wrote: »

i'm confused. DIT is an IT institution. it says IT right there in the name

Nah, it's a bit confusing but legally DIT is a seperate entity to the IT's and Universities. The Colleges follow the Dublin Institute of Technology Act 1992, which is seperate to the University of Ireland and Institute of Technology Acts.DIT is classified as a "National Institution" or something along that line.

The College has degree awarding powers whereas the IT's for example have the awards body HETAC, DIT awards degrees on their own merit without an external body.
Unlike the IT's and private Colleges, DIT awards Doctorettes so it can be lumped in with the private Colleges either.

Robbo

Naikon wrote: »

Unlike the IT's and private Colleges, DIT awards Doctorettes so it can be lumped in with the private Colleges either.

Doctorettes? Are they female doctors?

Naikon

Doesn't matter

buckfast4me wrote: »

In general workloads are much higher in degree courses, compared to cert->diploma->degree courses, whethere you are in an IT or a university.

When you apply for DT211/DT228/DT249 you are entering a Honours degree course regardless.
The DT249 is far more modular and is designed for people who have jobs, so it's bound to have alot less hours. This has no bearing on the difficulty of the course. I would imagine holding a 9-5 job and college is more difficult tbh.

Just becasue the DT211/DT249 have exit points doesent mean it's an easier course.

Naikon

Doesn't matter

Robbo wrote: »

Doctorettes? Are they female doctors?

Excuse the mistake :-) , I mean Doctorate.

Sam Vimes

IT (Institute of Technology) Degree

buckfast4me wrote: »

Obviously the degree is going to be more difficult, because those courss es with exit points after year 2,3,4 are a LOT differently structured from a 4 year straight degree course. Have a read of this thread about DT249 in DIT (it's the cert/diploma/degree course with exit points) and particularly BrandonBlock's post which I can say is true. The 4 year course with exit points (DT249) in 2nd year they have around 8 hours lectures/labs per week, whereas in the 4 year straight course (228) 2nd year consists of around 36 hours per week and doing 11 subjects. In general workloads are much higher in degree courses, compared to cert->diploma->degree courses, whethere you are in an IT or a university.

well that's really the point of this thread. my friends from the IT now have an honours degree the same as me but you're saying my workload was a lot higher for the same qualification. so are you saying uni courses are better? or are you saying that people do the whole ladder system thing have a lesser degree?

Naikon wrote: »

Nah, it's a bit confusing but legally DIT is a seperate entity to the IT's and Universities. The Colleges follow the Dublin Institute of Technology Act 1992, which is seperate to the University of Ireland and Institute of Technology Acts.DIT is classified as a "National Institution" or something along that line.

The College has degree awarding powers whereas the IT's for example have the awards body HETAC, DIT awards degrees on their own merit without an external body.
Unlike the IT's and private Colleges, DIT awards Doctorettes so it can be lumped in with the private Colleges either.

i see. very confusing

astrofool

It's going to depend on the course being done, e.g. Arts in a Uni is much less work than engineering or science, for example.

Institution's and their courses earn their name by the standard of the students they produce, either in industry, or through academia. Neither is directly better than the other unless you compare equivelant courses, e.g. Science at Trinity is better than DIT, which is better than UCD.

The best thing to do is look at the rankings of each department relative to the other. Cambridge and Oxford head the world in Arts, while MIT is where to be if you want to study science.

Toto Wolfcastle

My Dad works in IT (Information Technology not Institute of Technology!) and he is on the interview panel when they recruit. His company generally give first preference for work experience to IT students because they generally get to do more practical work in college than those who are doing the equivalent degree in the university.

When it comes to hiring someone for a full-time position, it doesn't bother him whether the person studied in an IT or a university. The results are important of course but, whether the person is from an IT or a university, the things that he looks at are the way the candidate presents him/herself (neat and tidy), friendly interview style, and, most importantly, something different on the CV. If 2 people have the same results and both do a fantastic interview it wont matter if they came from an IT or a University. If one has few hobbies/interests and the other does something really interesting in their spare time, then that person will usually get it.

I have a University degree and my BF has an IT degree. He has had to work so hard, and has had long hours in college for it, whereas I coasted through college. I fully believe that his degree is more valuable (they're not in the same category anyway) and more deserved than mine. Similarly, I have friends doing the equivalent degree to his in University and it is nothing compared to what he did.

Having said all that, some employers value University degrees over IT degrees, without realising that a lot of the course in ITs are fantastic and prepare students well with relevant work experience, practical/lab work, and small classes.

It should depend on the individual involved, but unfortunately some employers don't see it that way.

Black Swan

On a comparative note... In the USA, having a degree from Cal Tech or MIT in physics, biology, chemistry, engineering, computer science, aerospace, robotics, and other science and technology disciplines is a big plus when seeking employment in private sector, higher education, or research. Most traditional bricks-and-mortor universities will see a Cal Tech or MIT hire as grand indeed.

Stephen

Doesn't matter

I did an undergraduate honours degree in an IT and it was ****ing hard as nails. Roughly 35 hours per week of lectures/labs in each year. There was 58 or so of us at the beginning of first year. IIRC 17 were conferred after 4th year, and about half of those transferred in from cert/diploma courses in 2nd year.

Toto Wolfcastle

Stephen wrote: »

I did an undergraduate honours degree in an IT and it was ****ing hard as nails. Roughly 35 hours per week of lectures/labs in each year. There was 58 or so of us at the beginning of first year. IIRC 17 were conferred after 4th year, and about half of those transferred in from cert/diploma courses in 2nd year.

Ya, my boyfriend was in the same situation. He actually had more than 35 hours at one stage. People don't realise how tough IT courses are.

Naikon

Doesn't matter

janeybabe wrote: »

People don't realise how tough IT courses are.

QFT, I am in first year of Computing in DIT and the course has already turned some people off altogether
It's not a problem in most cases though if you put effort in. Not in all cases granted.
IT/Computer science apparently have the highest dropout rate of all courses in Ireland.

Sleepy

From my experience (B. Comm & H Dip Systems Analysis) I've noticed that for 'hands on' work, employers tend to prefer IT graduates but for roles which will progress to mid to senior level management they prefer the more theory/academic based degrees offered by the universities.

ianhobo

Doesn't matter

As was just echoed

I did a 5 year engineering honours degree (level 8) in an IT - average 33-35 hours of lectures/class time per time, then there was additional work to do on top of that . assignments and study etc

I then went on an did a masters in engineering (level 9) in DCU with 3 friends from my IT. We were leaps and bounds ahead of all the other engineering and computer students who had University degrees.

zuutroy

PhD FTW....I am smrt.

jimmycrackcorm

Doesn't matter

When I interview people for a job, neither type of degree matters as they are inexperienced anyway.

ianhobo

Doesn't matter

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

When I interview people for a job, neither type of degree matters as they are inexperienced anyway.

Well that probably depends on your business area. My company say they "tend to prefer" those with an institute of technology degree because of the amount of extra practical work that the student would have done. To them, it counts as experience, albeit a small amount. But it wouldn't go against you either way