Anyone else think Cork are a disgrace?

The Chessplayer

Dave Billings was complaining about Cork not showing any respect to Dublin and I agree. The whole issue in Cork is embarrassing - the players ought to be ashamed of themselves. The county board have every right to appoint whoever they want, selectors or otherwise.

I would be totally in favour of lengthy bans being handed out to the Cork panels.

molby14

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Dave Billings was complaining about Cork not showing any respect to Dublin and I agree. The whole issue in Cork is embarrassing - the players ought to be ashamed of themselves. The county board have every right to appoint whoever they want, selectors or otherwise.

I would be totally in favour of lengthy bans being handed out to the Cork panels.

its not just dublin so far its meath kilkenny and waterford.... meath gave them a week to sort out the mess and it was basically thrown back in there face
if the dublin match goes ahead they should lose home advantage ... that goes for the other counties aswell

popebenny16

I havent posted on the Cork issue so far, but now its over its time to draw the line.

I've been on committees, political, social and GAA, ever since i was in school. If you are on a commitee too long - county board is a prime example - you see players or members come and go from year to year and you form an inate opinion that you know better than they and you are more committed than they. This is, or course, not correct, but many good men and women have made incorrect value judgements.

I have also been a player, but a long time ago, only in schools and DIT, but there you go. I remember the work I out in and i remember the general mixture of unflinching fear and respect for committee members from players and admiration and a tinge of disrespect flowing the other way.

When this dispute got going, both sides would have seen everything focused through very narrow sightlines. It is over now, and yes, some counties have been affected badly by it. Problem is, and Billings is just stirring it in my humble opinion, Dublin players can sit up, Carlow players the same, and may start demanding their own input into selecting a manager.

Obviously there is no specific rule in the book that only a county board had the power to appoint a manager. Congress in April should put one in. This dispute has resulted in the worst of all solutions, and when Caffrey steps down, who is to say there will not be a posse of Dublin players knocking on the door in Parnell Park demanding an input into the selection of the new manager? Will we have a resentful County Board in Dublin as well as Cork?

One fact remains. Teddy Holland shouldn't have taken the job, but his statement reads like a man who was of a very low opinion of the Cork Footballers. Funny how they ended up with an input of choosing a manager, who, undoubtedly, will never be as hard on them as Holland looked like he was going to be.

molby14

billings stirring it?dont know where you got that from . they were not told untill 10.40 am on the friday that the match was off. to do that to a junior 8 team is a disgrace let alone a senior intercounty team that were bring a few thousand fans
as regards dublin county board pulling a stunt like cork its highly unlikly considering we were one of the first counties to let the manager pick his own selectors. back in the 70s
lets not for get that cork have a history of trying to hold the gaa to ransom like demanding a all ireland replay be held in cork (83)
refusing to play extra time in a league play off (87)
demanding a league final be played in cork(99) that had more away fans than home
this had nothing to do with the four other countied yet they have suffered from it . dont forget this vote that caused all the trouble took place on the 16th of october a full four months ago

REBEL CORK

We're just too powerful baby

MrJoeSoap

Despite the fact I've no allegiance to Cork, quite the opposite in fact, I have to say that there was nothing disgraceful in their reasons for striking. The only really disappointing aspect was that the issue was left for so long before being resolved and ultimately led to the trouble that both the hurling and football sides find themselves in today.

KerranJast

Players willing to sacrifice their playing careers for their principles and the right for their successors to have the best possible chance at winning All Irelands? Yeah really disgraceful. :rolleyes: I'd say the majority of Cork fans would be happy if Dublin/Meath/Waterford were given walkovers as this mess isn't their fault. I'm not even going to argue with your attempt at "debate generation" Chessplayer. You obviously aren't familiar with the full timeline of events like most people from outside Cork. The Sindo are still insisting the majority of Cork fans are angry with the players. Bunch of incompetent hacks :mad:. If ye want a proper reasoned debate on the issue the Sports board on the PROC forum has a lengthy debate on the matter.

eigrod

molby14 wrote: »

lets not for get that cork have a history of trying to hold the gaa to ransom like demanding a all ireland replay be held in cork (83)
refusing to play extra time in a league play off (87)
demanding a league final be played in cork(99) that had more away fans than home

It's ironic that you should mention those incidents. The person behind each of those decisions is the one who the players have the biggest gripe with (just read any of Tom Humphries recent articles on the subject).

So, in a roundabout way, the points you make actually add further to the justification for the players' strike.

The Chessplayer

Cork should be severely punished for wasting everyone's time. First they waste our time by producing a lily-livered performance in the worst All-Ireland final in living memory, then they hog the airwaves for about 2 months whinging about their management team. They cheated their way to an All-Ireland football final and Kerry made an example of them. Now it's time for the GAA to make an example of them for this latest debacle.

What if it had have been someone like Longford who were embroiled in such a dispute? I wouldn't say anyone would have paid any attention whatsoever. This may sound severe but I would advocate the Cork Co board axing both the football and hurling panels in their entirety, and the GAA relegating them to the lowest divisions. Give it a year and Cork would be fielding half decent teams -there's about 250 clubs down there afterall.

corcaighcailin9

Very easy to be so critical when it's not your own county involved, lads. The simple fact is that these players have very strong principles and are sticking to them. Imagine what ye would all be saying if they backed down... Noone can argue with the fact that they made it very clear prior to Teddy Holland's appointment that they would strike and it was nothing personal against Holland himself but they felt they had to take a stand. If the Dublin and Waterford players even half listened to the sports bulletins last week they would have been in no doubt that the games would not be going ahead. Any sympathy for Mr. Holland has well and truly been eroded after his pityful comments this weekend. How on earth does this man think anyone will want to play for him now? The county board is run by dinosaurs.

blackbelt

I think you are being way too harsh Chessplayer,Cork did not cheat their way to an All-Ireland Final,they got an arguably easy run to it but that doesn't mean they cheated.That All Ireland Final had no atmosphere to it and it was a blessing in disguise that I didn't waste money or couldn't get a ticket to it.I also see your point of view of being annoyed to see such a shambles of a Final.I'll gladly look at 2005 (My first AI Final I attended) as the only final in recent years that was memorable.

There is still a possibility that Cork may be thrown out of the league.The CCC have yet to come to a decision and I'd imagine the other county boards already affected may have some input.Colm Coyle and Meath have already publicly stated that they will not be bullied into honouring a Cork fixture next month and with the constraint of time against them,it would be hard to stuff all those fixtures in week by week.Dublin (apart from Billings) haven't said they wouldn't honour a deferred fixture or gave out about the situation.Alan Brogan said that the players may have needed the break in play.

The minimum which should happen is that Dublin and Meath get walkovers and let Cork play the rest of their fixtures.We're still early enough into the league and I think it would be best to give Cork their chance to save their place in Division 2 for the competitive nature of the league.

If they throw them out of the league,teams like Cavan and Roscommon will be given more hope of staying up.Six of one and half a dozen of the other and those two prospects are fair in my opinion.

Erin Go Brath

I would be against lenghty bans for Corks panel, or indeed any ban. It should suffice that Cork be relegated to the division below them in both codes as punishment for failing to fulfill their fixtures.

Kerranjast, I wouldn't pay heed to the Sindo. The quality of journalism in general in that paper is a joke. In fact if i went into the shop on Sunday and discovered it had become a 'red top' i'd hardly bat an eyelid. Doesn't surpise me in the slightest that they'd make a balls of coverage of this.

corcaighcailin9

I don't think a ban or relegation is called for. To be fair, the circumstances behind why the hurlers and footballers didn't take to the field were extenuating and there wasn't a [recent] precedent as to how best to deal with the situation. The bottom line is that they want to play GAA and have the best possible chance at winning. They didn't want to be on strike.

eigrod

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Cork should be severely punished for wasting everyone's time.

Yes, they should be punished. I'm sure they will. At the very least they should be made travel to Dublin for that game.

The Chessplayer wrote: »

First they waste our time by producing a lily-livered performance in the worst All-Ireland final in living memory,

I think Mayo might put up a strong challenge to that assertion.

The Chessplayer wrote: »

then they hog the airwaves for about 2 months whinging about their management team.

At least it took 2 months off the annual October-August "Dublinfest" on the airwaves (thankfully, the Dublin team themselves have put an end to it in July/August for the past 12 years).

The Chessplayer wrote: »

They cheated their way to an All-Ireland football final and Kerry made an example of them.

Really ? Do share with us how you come to the conclusion that they cheated their way.

The Chessplayer wrote: »

What if it had have been someone like Longford who were embroiled in such a dispute? I wouldn't say anyone would have paid any attention whatsoever.

Hardly Cork's fault.

The Chessplayer wrote: »

This may sound severe but I would advocate the Cork Co board axing both the football and hurling panels in their entirety

and provoke another strike. Brilliant :rolleyes:

molby14

eigrod wrote: »

It's ironic that you should mention those incidents. The person behind each of those decisions is the one who the players have the biggest gripe with (just read any of Tom Humphries recent articles on the subject).

So, in a roundabout way, the points you make actually add further to the justification for the players' strike.

strange how no cork players like say anthony lynch were complaining when he got the off suspensions they should have serverd.
my point had nothing to do with the rights or wrongs of the players strike. it was of how croke park were willing to allow cork away with disrupting other counties seasons . as pete finnerty said tonight on sunday sport would a smaller county be allowed away with it..... i think not
it was an internal matter that cork dragged other counties in to and for that they should be punished

Keano

I had a post written but when I read it over it made me think!!

The county board were wrong to do what they did... They had to have known the players reaction???

The footballers of Cork were right to air their grievances but could have handled their protest in another way

I for one would like to see Cork given some sort of punishment....

Tomthepost

Alot of people had probably booked hotels/train tickets etc in Cork to go down to league games.
Do you think the Cork county board or the players give a damn?
I think the punishment should definitely be that they have to play all league and championship games in both codes away from home for the season.
The players decision to strike was away too rash. I hope that the lessons have been learned.

Orizio

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Cork should be severely punished for wasting everyone's time. First they waste our time by producing a lily-livered performance in the worst All-Ireland final in living memory, then they hog the airwaves for about 2 months whinging about their management team. They cheated their way to an All-Ireland football final and Kerry made an example of them. Now it's time for the GAA to make an example of them for this latest debacle.

What if it had have been someone like Longford who were embroiled in such a dispute? I wouldn't say anyone would have paid any attention whatsoever. This may sound severe but I would advocate the Cork Co board axing both the football and hurling panels in their entirety, and the GAA relegating them to the lowest divisions. Give it a year and Cork would be fielding half decent teams -there's about 250 clubs down there afterall.

With good reason, Cork is the most decorated county in GAA history.

However, the Cork County Board is indeed a disgrace, as they have been for years.

The players have been proven justified in heir actions, and this nonsense about punishing the panels for exercising their rights is ludicrous, and would set a dangerous precedent for GAA generally.

molby14

Orizio wrote: »

With good reason, Cork is the most decorated county in GAA history.

However, the Cork County Board is indeed a disgrace, as they have been for years.

The players have been proven justified in heir actions, and this nonsense about punishing the panels for exercising their rights is ludicrous, and would set a dangerous precedent for GAA generally.

agreed the cork county board have been a disgrace
but i will ask you this if donal og cusack or graham canty were to be sent off in an all ireland semi and due to miss the final who would they run to first to get around that suspension? ...... frank murphy
they cant have it both ways nows

The Chessplayer

Orizio wrote: »

With good reason, Cork is the most decorated county in GAA history.

However, the Cork County Board is indeed a disgrace, as they have been for years.

The players have been proven justified in heir actions, and this nonsense about punishing the panels for exercising their rights is ludicrous, and would set a dangerous precedent for GAA generally.

Alot of Cork people seem to be backing the county board, and stating that it is the players would have disgraced themselves. Seems to be a big-time charlie attitude with the Cork players. Not just looking to slag off Cork players, but the O'Halpins have set a bit of a precedent with their tv shows. Next they will be doing David Ginola-style shampoo ads.

Mr. Incognito

Cork players are going to be picking soft "likeable" managers from here on in and you know what they say about management- If everyone likes you you're doing a piss poor job. They can give it up in the football if that's the road they are going to go down. Player power is all well and good- especially for an organisation that, bluntly, milks these players commitement for money.

Only time will tell the ramifications of this move- but I can see it back-firing on the panel in a huge way.

WannaST

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Alot of Cork people seem to be backing the county board, and stating that it is the players would have disgraced themselves.

I think if you talk to someone from Cork you'll find its the other way around...
Public demonstrations, on the street radio and tv interviews etc, will all confirm this, although some people will say that it could have been handled better but any blame rests firmly with the board

eigrod

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Alot of Cork people seem to be backing the county board, and stating that it is the players would have disgraced themselves.

That is totally wrong. All the local polls & vox-pops were hugely in favour of the players.

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Seems to be a big-time charlie attitude with the Cork players. Not just looking to slag off Cork players, but the O'Halpins have set a bit of a precedent with their tv shows. Next they will be doing David Ginola-style shampoo ads.

Again, factually inaccurate. They did one show and two of the three of them weren't even Cork players when they did that show. Why begrudge them anyway making some money for themselves ? Charlie Redmond & Jason Sherlock were making tv shows long before those guys anyway. Tony Doran & Dick O' Hara were making ads back in the 70s. DJ Carey has made money out of the media. But it's only Cork people who do it that are "big-time Charlies" ?????? More power to any GAA player, from whatever county, who can make a bit of money out of their image.

Keano

eigrod wrote: »

That is totally wrong. All the local polls & vox-pops were hugely in favour of the players.



Again, factually inaccurate. They did one show and two of the three of them weren't even Cork players when they did that show. Why begrudge them anyway making some money for themselves ? Charlie Redmond & Jason Sherlock were making tv shows long before those guys anyway. Tony Doran & Dick O' Hara were making ads back in the 70s. DJ Carey has made money out of the media. But it's only Cork people who do it that are "big-time Charlies" ?????? More power to any GAA player, from whatever county, who can make a bit of money out of their image.

Most of the players above are "big time charlies". To brand all Cork players with that is wrong but certainly O'Halpin is a big time charlie and indeed a very powerful influence amongst the hurlers

jank

Frank Murphy's nickname in cork is "GOD!". And it has been this way since the mid 80's at least. So you can imagine the feeling of the modern players towards this dinosaur .
Define big time charlies??

Golferx

Cork Co Board have a history of treating their players like dirt. The players were perfectly correct in their grieveance, if they hadn't stood up for what was right they would have been driven into the dark ages by Frank M and his buddies.

As for O'Halpins' TV shows? What shows were they? I remember one, what were the others?

Sean óg is a perfect example of how a sportsman should play and behave. He's acredit to his family, his club and his county. It's a pity Frank Murphy didn't and doesn't reciprocate. Frank Murphy hides behind the GAA rule book, it's no harm to see him get a comeupance.

Teddy Holland was very foolish to take the job while there was a dispute between the players and the County Board. He has now paid the price. (Although it was funny to see a binding arbitrator issue a "recomendation" w.r.t. Teddy's position)

Chessplayer, here, obviously has an agenda into which his criticism of Cork fits.

It's unfortunate on Monaghan, Cavan, Armagh, etc, that Meath and Dublin have got two points they might not otherwise have won, placing them in an unfair competitive situation.

niallo32

Golferx wrote: »

It's unfortunate on Monaghan, Cavan, Armagh, etc, that Meath and Dublin have got two points they might not otherwise have won, placing them in an unfair competitive situation.

It's also unfortunate on the Dublin hurlers, but people seem to conveniently forget that.

molby14

Golferx wrote: »

Cork Co Board have a history of treating their players like dirt. The players were perfectly correct in their grieveance, if they hadn't stood up for what was right they would have been driven into the dark ages by Frank M and his buddies.

As for O'Halpins' TV shows? What shows were they? I remember one, what were the others?

Sean óg is a perfect example of how a sportsman should play and behave. He's acredit to his family, his club and his county. It's a pity Frank Murphy didn't and doesn't reciprocate. Frank Murphy hides behind the GAA rule book, it's no harm to see him get a comeupance.

Teddy Holland was very foolish to take the job while there was a dispute between the players and the County Board. He has now paid the price. (Although it was funny to see a binding arbitrator issue a "recomendation" w.r.t. Teddy's position)

Chessplayer, here, obviously has an agenda into which his criticism of Cork fits.

It's unfortunate on Monaghan, Cavan, Armagh, etc, that Meath and Dublin have got two points they might not otherwise have won, placing them in an unfair competitive situation.

a fact that many cork players, some still involved with the teams today,have taken advantage of over the years

Orizio

molby14 wrote: »

a fact that many cork players, some still involved with the teams today,have taken advantage of over the years

So...?

molby14

Orizio wrote: »

So...?

so!!!!!!
bit cheeky of the players to complain of what frank murphy is when at the drop of a hat they will use him and his knowledge of the gaa to get out of trouble..... cant have it both ways