Quay St carpark fine because ticket wasn't visible

martipants

I park in the Quay St car park in Balbriggan every weekday at about 6:50am before taking the train. One morning last month, the ticket I'd bought must have fallen out of sight from the dashboard as I closed the door. I returned to my car that evening to find a fine on the windscreen.

As I found the purchased ticket easily enough and it had the time and date on it I sent it off with the fine and a nice note Fingal Co. Co., asking them to reconsider. Today I received notice that my appeal has been rejected due to the fact that the ticket wasn't displayed correctly and that the €40 fine is to be paid in the next 10 days. If that's left unpaid I think it'll go up to €60 and if that's not paid I suppose it will go to court?

I'm half considering paying the fine for a quiet life, but it galls me that Fingal Co. Co. get almost €500 a year from me alone, in that carpark alone. It's got to count for something that I bought my ticket as usual that morning, fine, I should have double checked it was in sight, (believe me, I do so now!) but I feel that I fulfilled my part of the transaction.

I'm writing this partly to warn anyone who uses paid public parking like me and partly to see if there are any others out there who've had the same experience. Has anyone gone as far as court with this (I'm realy tempted!)

Happy commuting!:)

wow sierra

When I first read this I couldn't believe how unfair to you they were and thought you should ring them to complain etc.

But then I realised there is no way for them to know if you actually baught that ticket - you could have got it from anyone who was parked in that carpark at the same time as you as there is no Reg no or anything on the ticket. I dont know if anyone would think to send in a friends used ticket to get out of paying a fine but I suppose they have seen every scam going. Your best bet is to pay the fine - even though it is so unfair.

giddyup

what wow said - yeah this would piss me off but if it wasnt visible it wasnt visible - what can the car park do about it? A fair-minded person might give you the benefit of the doubt but if they have already refused then you are probably scuppered. For those pay and display car parks I usually check that the ticket doesnt get blow off the dash as I'm closing the door.

The tickets or rules on the pay/display box ususually state that the ticket must be visibile so when you say "but I feel that I fulfilled my part of the transaction" strictly speaking you didn't. It's harsh, I know. Again, you really do have my sympathy but just pay the 40 and forget it happened.

Wishbone Ash

martipants wrote: »

I feel that I fulfilled my part of the transaction.

While I have every sympathy with your predicament, you didn't technically fulfil your part as the ticket purchased must be displayed.

In saying that, you may get a sympathetic judge should you decide to pursue it.

Morgans

Same thing happened me. We queried it in the same way. We had the ticket and received the same message today. We were supposed to get a record of the photo taken of the dashboard to prove that our valid ticket wasnt visible. We havent received this photo, and I will check with a friend who is a solictor for some free advise.

To those with the responses backing up those dispensing the fines, we park there most mornings for the past year, placing the ticket in pretty much the same area of the dashboard every time. Creatures of habit that we are. After a week, we clean the cars of the tickets. This days ticket may have blown over, it may have done, but to be honest, its a long shot. I would tend to notice this as I was closing the door. I think that it is as likely that the inspector looked at the dashboard and saw the previous days ticket, (which could have been lying around visible) and seeing that as evidence enough to warrant a fine. We got notice of the fine about 3 weeks after the day we were caught. (We had been on holidays and it was waiting for us when we got back, posted 2 weeks after the day in question) Those suggesting that we went around to people who possibly parked at 9 am on the morning seeking to get their ticket as a method of getting out of the fine are nuts.

I understand and would accept the fine no problem, if someone produced something to prove that I deserved the fine (that the ticket wasnt displayed correctly) They are the terms and conditions of the ticket. But given that we have a valid ticket, I think I need to see that proof that it wasnt visible before paying.

Seems like a mail merge of reject letters went out. Think we will wait until we get the photographic confirmation. As I said, I will check with a couple of solicitor friends.

Wishbone Ash

Morgans wrote: »

To those with the responses backing up those dispensing the fines, we park there most mornings for the past year, placing the ticket in pretty much the same area of the dashboard every time

I don't think anyone was backing up the dispensing of fines but merely offering an explanation.

Place youself in the shoes of the warden. Let's say there is a problem with illegal parking in Malahide Station and you are dispatched there. It is your duty to issue a fine to any vehicle not displaying a valid ticket. You don't know whether they have purchased a ticket or not. The only thing relevant to you is that there is no ticket displayed. You are unlikely to know if the vehicle is parked there every day. It's nothing personal. It's just a 'registration' to you.

Morgans wrote:

This days ticket may have blown over, it may have done, but to be honest, its a long shot. I would tend to notice this as I was closing the door.

In some cars, especially hatchbacks, the ticket can blow down with the gust of air caused by the rear boot door being closed. Some people check the ticket after closing the car door but then retrieve something from the boot and don't recheck it.

Morgans wrote:

I think that it is as likely that the inspector looked at the dashboard and saw the previous days ticket, (which could have been lying around visible) and seeing that as evidence enough to warrant a fine.

He/she would only be interested in a valid ticket for the day in question. It would be irrelevant how many other day's tickets are on display.

Morgans wrote:

Those suggesting that we went around to people who possibly parked at 9 am on the morning seeking to get their ticket as a method of getting out of the fine are nuts.

No one was suggesting that you or the OP did that. They were merely pointing out that it was a possibility - hence the need to Pay and DISPLAY. Any of the regulars on the Motoring Forums will know that a huge percentage of people are constantly seeking advise on how to avoid penalty points, parking fines etc which were merited. The parking attendants, clampers, Gardai and those involved in the issue of fines etc have heard all the excuses and have no real way of knowing who is a chancer and who is honest

Morgans wrote:

I understand and would accept the fine no problem, if someone produced something to prove that I deserved the fine (that the ticket wasnt displayed correctly) They are the terms and conditions of the ticket. But given that we have a valid ticket, I think I need to see that proof that it wasnt visible before paying.

That's a fair point.

I have no doubt that you and the OP had paid your parking ticket but I'm just giving the perspective that a parking warden might have.

Get one of those little office spring loaded clips. The weight of it will keep the ticket on the dashboard.

Morgans

Oh I know Wishbone Ash that the wardens have to do a job to do, and as I said, if it it blow over, I would pay the fine without a quibble. I would like to see the proof that it did. Given that a gust of wind hasn't blown over my valid ticket any other day we have parked there.

LouOB

Warden does not really give a flying ****. I seen the lazy ars*s on them
Same has happened to me - ticket blown over and sent out letter with copy of ticket. Got big f off letter from council

Other times machines did not give me ticket after I put in my ONLY 2eur - id ring up office to let them know their machine broken. They would still give me a fine.
Bunch of f**king wasters the lot of them - rant rant rant
OH but it doesnt stop the little scumbags from beating up my car the same carpark - 2 new windscreens - plus dents in doors. Hope the lot of them get chronic sh*ts an die of dehyration.

Gillo

At the end of the day the wardens have a job to do, a lot of people don't like the fact that they do their job, a lot of people also don't like to get parking tickets.
TBH I am always amazed at the number of people who nedlessly drive to teh station anyway, ok so Balbriggan is a country town with people living outside of the built-up areas who do have to drive in, there are also people who for some health reason cannot walk much distance, why don't they rest of you just walk down.

So what if it's winter, wear a warmer coat!!

martipants

All valid points, and thanks for taking the time to reply.
I should have checked and will do so from now on!
I've invested in some bluetac for the dash!
I'll pay the fine, but you can be sure I'll make sure I'm down there early enough to park for free in the station carpark to 'make' my money back off them. It's petty, I know but it makes me feel a bit better and I really like the idea of paying it back in coins...i and 2 cent pieces methinks

Gillo, you obviously live a cosy stroll from the station

tbh

as with so much in life, sometimes a good guy has to take a hit so that the system can run smoothly

Gillo

martipants wrote: »

Gillo, you obviously live a cosy stroll from the station

Beside Dunnes, I'm not sure what your definition of cosy is, never timed it but I give myself twenty five minutes walk to the station and never miss a train.

Bluetonic

martipants wrote: »

I'll make sure I'm down there early enough to park for free in the station carpark to 'make' my money back off them.

What the problem with parking in the towns free car park at the Church which is 500 meters away?

martipants wrote: »

It's petty, I know but it makes me feel a bit better and I really like the idea of paying it back in coins...i and 2 cent pieces methinks

They don't have to accept paying in 2 cent coins.

martipants

Yep, just found out 50 cent is the lowest denomination they have to accept.

Wishbone Ash

LouOB wrote: »

Other times machines did not give me ticket after I put in my ONLY 2eur - id ring up office to let them know their machine broken. They would still give me a fine.
Bunch of f**king wasters the lot of them - rant rant rant
OH but it doesnt stop the little scumbags from beating up my car the same carpark - 2 new windscreens - plus dents in doors. Hope the lot of them get chronic sh*ts an die of dehyration.

Yes, the local County Council are responsible for damaging your car! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

martipants wrote: »

Yep, just found out 50 cent is the lowest denomination they have to accept.

Martipants - I thin k you misunderstand! They are not legally obliged to accept more than 50 coins ( regardless of whether they are 1c coins or €2 coins).;)

Chinafoot

LouOB wrote: »

Bunch of f**king wasters the lot of them - rant rant rant

Uhm...is that not a bit contradictory? You got stung for not displaying your ticket correctly which surely means they were doing their job properly, yet at the same time you call them wasters? Riiiight.

LouOB wrote: »

OH but it doesnt stop the little scumbags from beating up my car the same carpark - 2 new windscreens - plus dents in doors. Hope the lot of them get chronic sh*ts an die of dehyration.

I wasn't aware that traffic wardens were also responsible for car park security. Oh wait, they're not. Bit of a misplaced rant there Lou.

Morgans

Well, my story update.

Contacted the Fingal Co Co and asked to see evidence of me not displaying my ticket, and informing them that they hadnt sent me any photos as they had said they would. I was told that they were visible from a couple of websites, which werent working. While on the phone to the call centre, they said that they would walk to me through the process, only for them to find out that their system doesnt work.

Anyway, the photos - well photocopy of photos that we received today. I was expecting a photo of my dashboard to show that the traffic inspectors didnt just see the first ticket on the dash, and not check the others - that may have been left there. We got five photos. One from each angle of the car, something that you would see on carzone if you were selling the car, but nothing to do with our actual issue. (It did correctly identify that it was in fact our car that transgressed the rules. I'm sure that is an issue with some claims, but not sure why two photos from the front and two from the back are needed to establish this.)

So, onto the one photo that showed the dashboard. It was one small section of our dash. Now, the photo was grainy and showed an inconclusive image of a ticket. It looked like the date on the ticket was the 02/01/08. It is not clear but if there was a gun to my head, I would say that it was the 02/01/08. We were "caught" not displaying a ticket on the 09/01/02. When I first saw it, I said, ok, they havent taken a photo of the full dashboard, but fair enough. I was resigned to the fact anyway, as you cant fight city hall.

However, then my girlfriend spotted something. Again, remember, we have the valid ticket and have sent a copy of it to the Co.Co. But if this was the only ticket on the dash, then we would have every right to expect a fine.

What was obvious from the photo of this section of our dashboard is that there is clearly a second ticket on top of the ticket forwarded to us as evidence as wrong-doing. You cannot see the top of this dated ticket as there is the bottom of a second ticket overlapping on top of it. I hope that I am explaining this ok. I dont have a scanner but if I ever get a digital copy off Fingal Co.Co, I'll see if I can attach the photo here.

We place the tickets in the same area of the dash most days. Why its so clear is that the heavily inked black border that appears on some of the parking tickets is clearly visible. (I dont know if that heavily inked border happens on all tickets) but its clear that there is a second ticket.

Not only that, it was overlapping on top of the ticket possibly dated the 02/01/08. It was clear that it is a newer ticket. Why wasnt I shown a photograph of this ticket as evidence? Could the traffic warden take a photo of this, or was there something in the fact that a photo of clearly an old ticket was taken. We have checked the valid ticket we have for the 09/01/02 and it has that heavily inked border.

Now, I'm not sure why a photo was only taken of the ticket showing the 02/01/08 ticket when there clearly was another newer ticket on top of it. We parked in the car park on the 8th and the 9th of Jan, and if that ticket is the 8th, then once again, we would happily pay the fine, but given that the photo appears to almost deliberately miss the later ticket, I am beginning to wonder if this is seen as an easy way of gathering money.

So, another letter to the Fingal Co. Co. tonight, asking for them for evidence that a ticket displaying the 09/01/08 wasnt visible on the dashboard. All for the sake of 40 euro, but we will soldier on for the principle.

I would hate to think that there are traffic inspectors out there looking for cars with old out of date tickets on the dashboard (nothing illegal in that) and deliberately not taking photos of the legal tickets, before noticing fines hoping that they wouldnt be challenged on it. If it wasnt so clear to use from a grainy photocopy of a photo that their was a second newer ticket displayed on the dashboard, we would have paid tonight.

Wishbone Ash

Morgans wrote: »

I would hate to think that there are traffic inspectors out there looking for cars with old out of date tickets on the dashboard (nothing illegal in that) and deliberately not taking photos of the legal tickets, before noticing fines hoping that they wouldnt be challenged on it

I very much doubt it. It's not as if they are on commission for each car they ticket. It was probably an oversight.

Morgans

Yes, as I said Wishbone Ash, I would hate to think that, but it is obvious from the poor photo that we did get that there was a second ticket on top of the one presented as evidence of our transgression.

Yes, it could have been an oversight. but it doesnt explain why a full dashboard was not presented as evidence, and how it looks as if an effort was made not to include the newer ticket, which would be full view of the ticket inspector, and was on top of the ticket presented as evidence.

Again, we have a valid ticket, (one with a heavily inked border on the correct side, and no heavily inked border on the underside) indicating that ticket on top is correctly displayed. If the traffic inspector missed it, it was remiss of him/her and their work.

There appears to be an attitude that the honest hard working traffic inspectors are being put down upon, and the wrong-doers need to accept that they cant break the rules and expect to get away with it. Its how a functioning society works after all.

I will repeat again we have a valid ticket, which we presented as evidence that we were legally parked. And as evidence that it wasnt correctly displayed, we were shown a poor photo of an old ticket, where you CAN see a newer ticket, but not the date. An oversight, indeed.

100gSoma

tut tut. Terrible carry on and I'm sure I'd be terribly bitter to be stung like this. I have often just closed the door of my car and its caused enough unsettling to knock the ticket from the dash.... For the money we pay for parking Im really surprised the machines do not give out the tickets with the peel off sticky area that you see in other parking machines. you just peel a strip off and stick it to your drivers door window then. no hassle. I guess you'll have to pay the fine as bitter as it will be.

Morgans

I think I have been resigned to the fact that I am going to have to pay the fine from the beginning, and I am pretty calm about the entire incident. But I dont really like thinking that because traffic inspectors are traffic inspectors, they are less likely to make a mistake than I am, in the tough job of displaying a ticket. When you query it, the attitude is "will you just accept the fine and be done with it" regardless of what actally transpired.

I know that the likelyhood is that I am going to have to pay the fine.

LouOB

LouOB wrote: »

rant rant rant

in order to reply to all

SuzyS1972

Bluetonic wrote: »

What the problem with parking in the towns free car park at the Church which is 500 meters away?


They don't have to accept paying in 2 cent coins.

Where is the church 500 meters away !

Bluetonic

SuzyS1972 wrote: »

Where is the church 500 meters away !

I won't dignify that with a response.

SuzyS1972

martipants

Sigh, I just paid my fine today.

Morgans, it sounds like you've got more of a case than me. My ticket was definitely out of sight

My boyf is pledging to make it to the station early enough for the next month to park for free and 'save' the €40 we've just handed over to the council...I'm not sure where our high horse is going to be at 5 in the morning

It's not going to happen again though!

Bluetonic

martipants wrote: »

My boyf is pledging to make it to the station early enough for the next month to park for free and 'save' the €40 we've just handed over to the council...I'm not sure where our high horse is going to be at 5 in the morning

Sorry to hear about the accident.

martipants

Bluetonic wrote: »

Sorry to hear about the accident.

cathy01

you could also park on sea point which is 5 mins walkaway from the station...ohhh did I say that out loud!!
I often,..like every day place a new ticket on top of the old.Somedays if its windy , they blow.I have invested in ..blu tac, its great.Cost .1.50 and works.
Still I 100 % agree with you.Unless they have proof of you not showing a vaid ticket, fight it.
I remember once, just one, I had to take my daughter age 4 to the doctor as an emergancy.turns out they had to call an ambulance for her as she had appendicities and needed surgery.
My big concern , not main concern was , my car,parked with a small ticket valid for 1 hour.I did pass the warden on my way in and told her , it was an emergency and I expect to be sent to hospital. She was very nice about it , and told me not to worry.I was and still am very grateful for her understanding.
But, if another warden had come along I would have been..f*****. or fined.
Anyway, my advice is, take a 4 year old with a temp of 104 and appendicitis or, walk next time!!!
Cathy

Morgans

Only 7 months later but we received a letter from Fingal Co.Co. confirming that our fine was issued in error and the have cancelled our fine.

Finally, I can get a decent night's sleep, and hopefully that will put to rest all your worried minds.

Thanks for the support.