etiquette question: leaving a tournament early

El Stuntman

so I went in to play the IO sat in the Fitz tonight...

I get stacked in a lol kind of way before the break (Lloyd can confirm) and rebuy. Shortly after the break, the table breaks and I get moved downstairs. I win a couple of decent pots to move into contention-ish

I then get a call from Mrs S to tell me that our daughter is sick (turned out to be false alarm thankfully) and that I should get my ass back home. I naturally say OK. No-one at table hears this conversation as a big pot is playing out.

I debate internally to myself - how do I leave the tournie?

I decide to go all-in pre-flop every hand until someone busts me. I say nothing to anybody.

Very next hand, I'm on the SB and pick up 67o.

There's two limps in mid-position and a late position player makes it 1200 (blinds are 150/300 with 25 ante)

I say nothing and ship my stack over the line (10k-ish)

All fold around to the initial raiser and he goes into the tank. I stare at the felt. Eventually he finds a call with AQo.

Naturally everyone says 'wtf?' when they see my cards revealed.

The AQ holds up, I'm busto and I then explain that I had to run and was going to go AIPF until I was knocked out.

One guy makes some comment to the effect that 'you could have told us' and seemed quite annoyed.

Just wondering is there any etiquette to cover this scenario? What would YOU do - have you seen similar happen before? How can you handle this is in a way that is fair to the other players? Should you let the TD sort it out?

bohsman

Fairer not to mention that you're pushing any 2 I think. Probably easiest to mention it to TD that youre leaving and dont bother losing your chips.

That also means if the false alarm comes through early enough you can go back.

El Stuntman

bohsman wrote: »

That also means if the false alarm comes through early enough you can go back.

lol, didn't think of that

Goodluck2me

El Stuntman wrote: »

One guy makes some comment to the effect that 'you could have told us' and seemed quite annoyed.

of course he is, he could have called. A guy was annoyed at me once for calling for a flush draw, i dont do that anymore.

ditpoker

do it old school dit poker soc ways, basically, if you gotta go, get your mate to play your stack! horribly against all the rules in theory, but sure if everyone does it once in a while it grand, and this is way back before any really knew it was a bad thing...

Marq

bohsman wrote: »

Fairer not to mention that you're pushing any 2 I think. Probably easiest to mention it to TD that youre leaving and dont bother losing your chips.

That also means if the false alarm comes through early enough you can go back.

.

eoghan104

Theres been loads of times when ive tried a move with a muck hand and then when I lost pretended I had to rush off so don't worry about it your not alone!

Blip

eoghan104 wrote: »

Theres been loads of times when ive tried a move with a muck hand and then when I lost pretended I had to rush off so don't worry about it your not alone!

El Stuntman

eoghan104 wrote: »

Theres been loads of times when ive tried a move with a muck hand and then when I lost pretended I had to rush off so don't worry about it your not alone!

yeah - like shoving A7 over AA pre-flop?

oh wait you won that one :eek:

Ollieboy

This happen to me at a final table in Vegas last year, the guy was on major tilt and it was 10k fir first, when I double up of him in a massive pot all-in preflop and my hand held up, he got up and walk back to his room.

His stack got blind away and he end up getting 3rd as his stack was still in play. I dont think he even came back for his money. But if he decided not to play, I felt the correct action for him was to leave his stack there instead of just open push with any 2 cards.

eoghan104

El Stuntman wrote: »

yeah - like shoving A7 over AA pre-flop?

oh wait you won that one :eek:

That was just a standard move, what you didnt realise at the time was that aces had not been coming out much where as 5's 6's 8's and 9's had been coming out all night so it was obvious I was going to hit a straight! Its just poker on a different level you will get there someday.

ollyk1

You payed your money and the only person effected is you. Do whatever you want. There are no etiquette issues as far as I'm concerned.

The guy was probably just annoyed because either
a) his piece of crap hand would have hit the flop
or
b) you had just given chips to a good player.

3 times I've called a all-in push by a player following a phone call very light.

The first two times I was right as the opponent in the hand was in a rush off.

The third time my A2 got pwned by AK and the whole table looked at me like I was crazy. I felt the need to explain and said I thought he was leaving and my opponent in the hand just said "No, she actually told me that it was a false alarm and that I could play on". D'oh!

dannydiamond

ollyk1 wrote: »

You payed your money and the only person effected is you. Do whatever you want. There are no etiquette issues as far as I'm concerned.

The guy was probably just annoyed because either
a) his piece of crap hand would have hit the flop
or
b) you had just given chips to a good player.

3 times I've called a all-in push by a player following a phone call very light.

The first two times I was right as the opponent in the hand was in a rush off.

The third time my A2 got pwned by AK and the whole table looked at me like I was crazy. I felt the need to explain and said I thought he was leaving and my opponent in the hand just said "No, she actually told me that it was a false alarm and that I could play on". D'oh!

.

5starpool

Ya, if I had to leave I would just tell the TD and have them take my chips off the table or whatever they thought was appropriate.

El Stuntman

eoghan104 wrote: »

That was just a standard move, what you didnt realise at the time was that aces had not been coming out much where as 5's 6's 8's and 9's had been coming out all night so it was obvious I was going to hit a straight! Its just poker on a different level you will get there someday.

I am such a fish, next time I'll just fold my AA face up

dingle

I benifitted from something similar a few months back in Fitzpatricks.

Saw a guy taking a phone call while he wasn't involved in a hand. there was a big pot going on so most people weren't paying him any heed. I glanced up at him and thought I heard him say"...ok,ok I'll be there".

He didn't say anything but the next hand he went all-in preflop but it was folded back to him. The next hand I was in the BB and holding K9s, he went all-in again, so I called, he tabled some junk like 46o and I doubled up. the stacks were fairly big and the table was amazed at my call.

I didn't enlighten anyone to how I made such a great call :rolleyes:

Requiem4adream

Hope this doesnt sound harsh El S but one of my #1 pet hates online is people who say 1 of the following:

"i have to go to work"
" i have to go out with the girlfriend"
"i have to be somewhere else"

THEN

Proceed to tank it in with any 2 consistently, double up, spot they have a chance in the tournament and proceed to stay for 2 hours. Frankly it's bs. In your case you said nothing which was at least something but how is going all-in repeatedly ATC fair in the slightest? Ok it's pretty much random who calls you but you're potentially screwing up someone elses game when you have no intention of staying.

Sitting Out (online) or leave your stack to be blinded out is fairest. You cant knock anybody out and everyone reaps a roughly similar benefit to your absence. I know personally if some loon kept going all in and i called him with 88 to be beaten by his 6 3o and see him exit the building stage left i'd be less than pleased.

ollyk1

Requiem4adream wrote: »

Sitting Out (online) or leave your stack to be blinded out is fairest. You cant knock anybody out and everyone reaps a roughly similar benefit to your absence. I know personally if some loon kept going all in and i called him with 88 to be beaten by his 6 3o and see him exit the building stage left i'd be less than pleased.

You can't seriously be disappointed when you get it all-in with 88 versus 63o and lose surely?? So what if you lost this one time.

Would it be better from your perspective if you got it all-in with AA versus KK and lost because the guy was playing "correctly"??

At the end of the day ElS put money in the prize pool and paid the reg and he can play whatever way he pleases after that. Some guy speech playing the online table in the chatbox in the hope of a double up is not even comparable and even if it was so what? They are playing the game and if they want to push every few hands good luck to them.

El Stuntman

Requiem4adream wrote: »

Hope this doesnt sound harsh El S but one of my #1 pet hates online is people who say 1 of the following:

"i have to go to work"
" i have to go out with the girlfriend"
"i have to be somewhere else"

THEN

Proceed to tank it in with any 2 consistently, double up, spot they have a chance in the tournament and proceed to stay for 2 hours. Frankly it's bs. In your case you said nothing which was at least something but how is going all-in repeatedly ATC fair in the slightest? Ok it's pretty much random who calls you but you're potentially screwing up someone elses game when you have no intention of staying.

Sitting Out (online) or leave your stack to be blinded out is fairest. You cant knock anybody out and everyone reaps a roughly similar benefit to your absence. I know personally if some loon kept going all in and i called him with 88 to be beaten by his 6 3o and see him exit the building stage left i'd be less than pleased.

well, that's why I posted it - I didn't know what the etiquette was and I wasn't exactly thinking straight. If it happens again, I'll just tell the TD and leave my stack on the table as that seems to be generally agreed to be the fairest.

My example is a bit different to yours in that I didn't tell anyone I was leaving. Thankfully I didn't double up! (now how often will you hear me say that in here?)

ollyk1

El Stuntman wrote: »

well, that's why I posted it - I didn't know what the etiquette was and I wasn't exactly thinking straight. If it happens again, I'll just tell the TD and leave my stack on the table as that seems to be generally agreed to be the fairest.

My example is a bit different to yours in that I didn't tell anyone I was leaving. Thankfully I didn't double up! (now how often will you hear me say that in here?)

Etiquette my arse. You paid plenty of money and if busting some guys aces with rags is the only pleasure you are going to get from the evening as you have to leave early well at least its something. :rolleyes::p

P.S. I've never ever left a tournie early due to other commitments. :cool: The benefit of not having kids I guess.

El Stuntman

ollyk1 wrote: »

Etiquette my arse. You paid plenty of money and if busting some guys aces with rags is the only pleasure you are going to get from the evening as you have to leave early well at least its something.

I slightly disagree, I think it's important to be fair to the other players in the tournament hence the creation of the thread.

busting you would obviously be a different kettle of fish!

ollyk1

El Stuntman wrote: »

I slightly disagree, I think it's important to be fair to the other players in the tournament hence the creation of the thread.

busting you would obviously be a different kettle of fish!

You are putting money into the prize pool that you can't win. How fair to them do you want to be???? Hand them all the loot?? You are basically donating and if you want to shove for a few hands until you go bust be my guest every night of the week. :rolleyes:

I'm sure the guy with AQ wasn't complaining.

Tapping the tank and berating someone are much worse crimes in my book.

Edit: Actually I think there is potential for an interesting thread on tank tapping on the live scene. It's always gone on ever since I've been playing and probably well before that but it seems to be endemic these days and generally from people who should know a lot better and to a large extent I blame this forum for it.

Also discussing strategy in front of bad players and encouraging them to play better is another crime that I see an awful lot of and something I'm guilty of way to much. I do try to balance it up by really encouraging bad plays as well but not too many people join me in this struggle. Pabloh is a good man for it though.

Requiem4adream

ollyk1 wrote: »

You can't seriously be disappointed when you get it all-in with 88 versus 63o and lose surely?? So what if you lost this one time.

Would it be better from your perspective if you got it all-in with AA versus KK and lost because the guy was playing "correctly"??

At the end of the day ElS put money in the prize pool and paid the reg and he can play whatever way he pleases after that. Some guy speech playing the online table in the chatbox in the hope of a double up is not even comparable and even if it was so what? They are playing the game and if they want to push every few hands good luck to them.

The hand i lose to is irrelevant, the point i'm making is the bs excuse usually used to pre-justify it. Say nothing! And in terms of live poker, i'd at least hope they stayed and tried win the seat - if they really had to go, and had no prospect of making a seat, the fairest thing for all concerned is to leave the stack on the table and go home. I've done it a few times myself when i wanted to go home to play online, just leave the stack there and say im going, gl.

Btw weirdly i do prefer losing to good play than bad play, which is a complete paradox i know because i should always prefer losing to bad play.

5starpool

ollyk1 wrote: »

You can't seriously be disappointed when you get it all-in with 88 versus 63o and lose surely?? So what if you lost this one time.

Would it be better from your perspective if you got it all-in with AA versus KK and lost because the guy was playing "correctly"??

At the end of the day ElS put money in the prize pool and paid the reg and he can play whatever way he pleases after that. Some guy speech playing the online table in the chatbox in the hope of a double up is not even comparable and even if it was so what? They are playing the game and if they want to push every few hands good luck to them.

If I was at the table and someone else, particularly a dangerous player, got a 30BB donation I would not have been impressed. I never understood the "i have to leave i'll shove it in" attitude. If you have to leave, leave. Whether you do it with 30BB's or 90BB's is irrelevant, you still can't use them.

Edit: El S - I knew I recognised your face last night, but considering I have eonly ever spoke to you once briefly, I never made the connection until I saw this thread.

ollyk1

5starpool wrote: »

If I was at the table and someone else, particularly a dangerous player, got a 30BB donation I would not have been impressed. I never understood the "i have to leave i'll shove it in" attitude. If you have to leave, leave. Whether you do it with 30BB's or 90BB's is irrelevant, you still can't use them.

Because they are gambling losing fish Dom. Why are you making them feel bad about it?

Some stupid taxi driver type comes in and the odd time is so silly that he doesn't realize that he can't in fact stay long enough to win the tournie so he gets a kick about pushing all in blind (or effectively blind) for a while. Why are we trying to make him feel bad about it??

Its all good (I'm using this phrase in as many posts as I can from now on to piss of HJ) for the prize pool and for every good player in the long run. No matter what happens on any one particular night.

In conclusion I think you are thinking too much of the short term Dom and if some guy feels like "Ah well in the event I have to leave I'll just push all in blind" and to his subconscious loser mentality that seems like a good nights entertainment well then its your responsibility as a good player to make him feel happy about it and to encourage this behavior.

ollyk1

Requiem4adream wrote: »

Btw weirdly i do prefer losing to good play than bad play, which is a complete paradox i know because i should always prefer losing to bad play.

That has to be a leak Dan. Embrace those bad beats from donkeys. Love a donkey today I say!!

Requiem4adream

ollyk1 wrote: »

That has to be a leak Dan. Embrace those bad beats from donkeys. Love a donkey today I say!!

lol. It's not a leak per se just a sadistic typical Irish trait in my personality!! Ya know, the type of trait where one complains in summer bout it being too hot then bitches the rest of the year solid about it being cold or raining too much!!! :rolleyes:

ionapaul

I'm with Olly on this one - it may be frustrating to play against but not particularly against the spirit of the game IMHO. You pay the entry fee, you can use your stack as you see fit for as long as you are in the tournament. I think pushing all-in with ATC in an effort to get knocked out is something that would annoy others at the table after they realise what was going on / seen the chips go to a dangerous player, but it's just one more annoyance we have to deal with playing poker. People often stand up and put on their jacket when they are all-in, covered and behind, ready for a quick getaway, but in Galway some players would stand up when they called and covered the all-in player and were miles ahead! This used to annoy me no end, sit down FFS, you're miles ahead and won't be going anywhere even if outdrawn!

ollyk1

Requiem4adream wrote: »

lol. It's not a leak per se just a sadistic typical Irish trait in my personality!! Ya know, the type of trait where one complains in summer bout it being too hot then bitches the rest of the year solid about it being cold or raining too much!!! :rolleyes:

Well it is a leak if you seek out tougher games against "proper" players when you could be playing soft games against idiots.

I understand your reasoning and its illustrated by good players on boards here all the time but its fundamentally wrong I think. Not a huge deal at the minute but as the games get tougher and the fish become extinct people will miss the idiots....

Meh, maybe I'm making too big a deal out of nothing but I'm often the only person at a table who expresses condolences when the fish sticks in 100 big blinds with 33 or something and runs into a real hand :eek: Nobody encourages these guys anymore.

Requiem4adream

ollyk1 wrote: »

Well it is a leak if you seek out tougher games against "proper" players when you could be playing soft games against idiots.

lol dont worry in that regard, as HJ will testify i am the King of all things $3! $3 rebuy is my home!!

ArmaniJeanss

ollyk1 wrote: »

Meh, maybe I'm making too big a deal out of nothing but I'm often the only person at a table who expresses condolences when the fish sticks in 100 big blinds with 33 or something and runs into a real hand :eek: Nobody encourages these guys anymore.

Online I always give them a 'wow, unlucky to run into a big hand there, gg, c u again m8' bit of encouragement. I'd like to think that it has some small part in keeping the fish population alive.

Goodluck2me

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Online I always give them a 'wow, unlucky to run into a big hand there, gg, c u again m8' bit of encouragement. I'd like to think that it has some small part in keeping the fish population alive.

I like the "Yeah, I was sure he was at it as well" played a great game though.

5starpool

ollyk1 wrote: »

Well it is a leak if you seek out tougher games against "proper" players when you could be playing soft games against idiots.

I understand your reasoning and its illustrated by good players on boards here all the time but its fundamentally wrong I think. Not a huge deal at the minute but as the games get tougher and the fish become extinct people will miss the idiots....

Meh, maybe I'm making too big a deal out of nothing but I'm often the only person at a table who expresses condolences when the fish sticks in 100 big blinds with 33 or something and runs into a real hand :eek: Nobody encourages these guys anymore.

It is rare I am anything other than sympathetic and encouraging to these types Olly, as my (slightly delayed) table tap at 5.30 this morning in the IO sat 3 handed after getting hit by a middle pin and sucked out on twice in 5 mins by the same guy, suggests. I don't openly discourage it, but if asked my opinion, my opinion is that it is not something I would ever do, and I don't think anyone who takes the game seriously (even as a recreational pursuit) should. However, the fact that 75% of players tend not to think about anything other than a little bubble around their cards means that 'thinking' about consequences isn't a reality for most.

RedJoker

goodluck2me wrote: »

of course he is, he could have called. A guy was annoyed at me once for calling for a flush draw, i dont do that anymore.

That's very considerate of you.

El Stuntman

ollyk1 wrote: »

Edit: Actually I think there is potential for an interesting thread on tank tapping on the live scene. It's always gone on ever since I've been playing and probably well before that but it seems to be endemic these days and generally from people who should know a lot better and to a large extent I blame this forum for it.

this would be a good and relevant (well, to the live players anyway) thread, post away olly!

ollyk1

5starpool wrote: »

It is rare I am anything other than sympathetic and encouraging to these types Olly, as my (slightly delayed) table tap at 5.30 this morning in the IO sat 3 handed after getting hit by a middle pin and sucked out on twice in 5 mins by the same guy, suggests. I don't openly discourage it, but if asked my opinion, my opinion is that it is not something I would ever do, and I don't think anyone who takes the game seriously (even as a recreational pursuit) should. However, the fact that 75% of players tend not to think about anything other than a little bubble around their cards means that 'thinking' about consequences isn't a reality for most.

Well basically I'm saying El Stuntman is a fish and we should encourage him to push blind whenever he wants!! :D

Edit: And no bad beat stories by the back door here Dom you know where they should go!! lol only kidding.

ollyk1

El Stuntman wrote: »

this would be a good and relevant (well, to the live players anyway) thread, post away olly!

I will do in a little while but I just got interrupted by a two hour lunch

TommyGunne

If you've paid into the event then I think you should get the option to shove every hand if you want. I know for a fact that I would get some enjoyment out of it. Also think about it as an investment in metagame! Just don't tell them you have to go!

Have you ever played the €5er rebuy in the jackpot???? I played it once or twice and I must say it is by far the most enjoyable tourney around for many reasons. But for a period of maybe a few months a few degens came in every week and openshoved every hand for the rebuy period for fun. This is not bad etiquette. They can do whatever they like with their investment, be it for pleasure or profit.

Marq

ollyk1 wrote: »

At the end of the day ElS put money in the prize pool and paid the reg and he can play whatever way he pleases after that.

this is the crux of the matter. basically if you weren't leaving you would be entitled to play any way you want, so it makes no difference if you are leaving.

bops

what i have done in the past is to go allin before the cards are dealt (announcing clearly!!) - this makes for interesting hands, people thinking of calling with Q7+, others repopping bluffing etc etc, before you know it you get 4/1 and suck out, go home, fix problem, come back and still have a better stack/blind ratio - works well for me!!

...at least it's open an honest (and fun)

Slash/ED

TommyGunne wrote: »

Have you ever played the €5er rebuy in the jackpot???? I played it once or twice and I must say it is by far the most enjoyable tourney around for many reasons. But for a period of maybe a few months a few degens came in every week and openshoved every hand for the rebuy period for fun. This is not bad etiquette. They can do whatever they like with their investment, be it for pleasure or profit.

That still goes on and I'm usually as guilty of it as anyone. Last week it produced this gem. Entire table decides to go all in blind, one player is reluctant. It goes shove shove shove around to him, and he snap shoves. Everyone else is all in. He flips over aces. Flop is something like 7 8 10. Turns a 9. Rivers a jack. Nobody has a queen. It's probably my favourite live tournament.