Who wrote Genesis

Sangre

Hey,

Just a few quick questions regarding Genesis i.e. the creation of man.

Who wrote it and how did they know the story? Was it told to them by heavenly body or was it passed down?

Google didn't bring up any immediate definite answers.

Ta,

PDN

Sangre wrote: »

Hey,

Just a few quick questions regarding Genesis i.e. the creation of man.

Who wrote it and how did they know the story? Was it told to them by heavenly body or was it passed down?

Google didn't bring up any immediate definite answers.

Ta,

We don't know who wrote it. Moses was traditionally viewed as the author, but the Bible itself does not make that claim.

Neither do we know how much of it, if any, was written by eyewitnesses to actual events.

Sangre

Cool thanks. I would have figured Moses or one of Adam's descendents. In all my years in education this question never arose from anyone and I never even thought of it myself. Odd considering it could make for interesting discussion.

Run_to_da_hills

There are some books of the Bible whose authors cannot be known completely. The first five books of the Bible, - Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, are referred to in other parts of the Bible and by Jesus himself, as the books of Moses. However all scripture is inspired by God from reading 2 Timothy 3vs16,

Bluefoam

Sangre wrote: »

Who wrote it

Phil Collins

punchdrunk

...well it was their 12th album,came out in 83ish so Gabriel would have left at that stage,yeah deffo phil colins wrote that one!

Bluefoam

punchdrunk wrote: »

...well it was their 12th album,came out in 83ish so Gabriel would have left at that stage,yeah deffo phil colins wrote that one!

Was that Peter Gabriel?

robindch

Sangre wrote: »

Just a few quick questions regarding Genesis i.e. the creation of man. Who wrote it and how did they know the story? Was it told to them by heavenly body or was it passed down?

The Genesis story seems to have derived from earlier Babylonian creation myths which were inscribed upon clay tablets which were discovered during the 19th century upon the site of the ancient city of Ur, present-day Iraq. There are many common elements, including those of a powerful creator deity who's annoyed at his creations, who wants to kill them, who delivers a flood, who permits a small number of humans to survive by building a ship which uses birds to locate land after the flood.

You can find out more about the differences and similarities between the two accounts here:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/noah_com.htm

Soul Winner

robindch wrote: »

The Genesis story seems to have derived from earlier Babylonian creation myths which were inscribed upon clay tablets which were discovered during the 19th century upon the site of the ancient city of Ur, present-day Iraq. There are many common elements, including those of a powerful creator deity who's annoyed at his creations, who wants to kill them, who delivers a flood, who permits a small number of humans to survive by building a ship which uses birds to locate land after the flood.

You can find out more about the differences and similarities between the two accounts here:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/noah_com.htm

Ah sure, as we’re Googling: http://www.tektonics.org/af/babgenesis.html

PDN

Sangre wrote: »

Cool thanks. I would have figured Moses or one of Adam's descendants.

That would go without saying for those of us who believe that every human being has been a descendant of Adam.

Pompey Magnus

Soul Winner wrote: »

Ah sure, as we’re Googling: http://www.tektonics.org/af/babgenesis.html

Enuma Elish text

There does seem to be some basic similarities between Genesis and Enuma Elish, serpents created filled with poison and their association with a woman, the creation of the Heavens and the Earth, the creation of humanity, which is partly divine, so they can worship the Gods. I have read a good few articles on that tektonics website you gave, alot of them are very well researched and make good points, this was not one of their best. It doesn't convince me at all that the similarities between the two creation myths were simply coincidental.

There is no evidence for Hebrew slaves in Egypt, no archaeological evidence for them crossing the desert. The story of Noah is certainly a plagarism from other, older cultures in the region, the origin quite possibly being the Sumerian King Ziusudra who ruled about 2900 BC. He built a barge and loaded it with royal possesions, stayed on the boat for a week during a terrible flood (supported by scientific analysis of the sedimentary record in the region), and offered a sacrifice to the Gods when the flood was over.

The Genesis story was much, much later, perhaps only 600 BC so I'd say the best bet for Christians is to take the Justin Martyr tactic, say that the Devil created the Sumerian myth to confuse us and messed up the sedimentary record to give their legend at least some scientific evidence and the Genesis legend sod all. That pesky Devil and his practical jokes is up to his old tricks again.

philologos

It's not so out of line to say that they were perhaps linked.

1. Abraham came from Ur, Babylonia.

robindch wrote:

The Genesis story seems to have derived from earlier Babylonian creation myths which were inscribed upon clay tablets which were discovered during the 19th century upon the site of the ancient city of Ur, present-day Iraq.

^^ there you go.
2. There was a panthenon of gods where he lived before he left. (hence explaining the source of the other myths).
3. However the Jews had another reason for why the flood happened.
4. What is in common with the myths? Flood. There you go. Doesn't mean it's any more unlikely that it took place in the first place.

The tactic for Christians is to look at it realistically, as opposed to your highly disrespectful suggestion.

Depeche_Mode wrote:

The Genesis story was much, much later, perhaps only 600 BC so I'd say the best bet for Christians is to take the Justin Martyr tactic, say that the Devil created the Sumerian myth to confuse us and messed up the sedimentary record to give their legend at least some scientific evidence and the Genesis legend sod all. That pesky Devil and his practical jokes is up to his old tricks again.

You know that wasn't necessary.
I'd see that the events happened, and God revealed later to Abraham (remember this was probably Jewish oral tradition), that the Genesis account of Noah was the true reason why it occurred.

Pompey Magnus

Jakkass wrote: »

I'd see that the events happened, and God revealed later to Abraham (remember this was probably Jewish oral tradition), that the Genesis account of Noah was the true reason why it occurred.

Please tell me that you're not suggesting that the Noah story is true.

philologos

Depeche_Mode wrote: »

Please tell me that you're not suggesting that the Noah story is true.

This is the Christianity forum and I believe in Christianity, so yes I am suggesting it occurred despite the agony you may feel at the fact.

Pompey Magnus

Jakkass wrote: »

This is the Christianity forum and I believe in Christianity, so yes I am suggesting it occurred despite the agony you may feel at the fact.

Fair enough. I was going to make an effort to show how ridiculous the story is but on reflection I don't think it would be worth it. I'd say your mind is set and ain't gonna be changed by anything I could possibly say.

santing

Ridiculous? Did you really read it?
Fact: The flood story is - in various forms - delivered over to peoples on all continents.
Fact: The ancient Chinese symbol for "Safe" is a boat with 8 people in it.
Fact: in all the flood stories, the Bible present us with a seaworthy boat.
Fact: the names of the sons of Noah return in the language groups and names of peoples.

I think the story is very believable.

JC 2K3

I'm sorry, two of every animal? EVERY animal???

santing

JC 2K3 wrote: »

I'm sorry, two of every animal? EVERY animal???

Nope, just read the story!

Two of ever kind of animal, seven of every kind of clean animal.
So there were probably only two dogs on board, representing and becoming the ancestors) of all dogs now.

JC 2K3

Ok, but that's still millions of animals, and how long ago did the Flood occur? 3000-4000 years isn't at all long enough for the vast amount of dog breeds to have developed.

And tbh, that's only the tip of the iceberg as regards the utter implausibility of the Noah's ark story.

Pompey Magnus

santing wrote: »

Ridiculous? Did you really read it?
Fact: The flood story is - in various forms - delivered over to peoples on all continents.
Fact: The ancient Chinese symbol for "Safe" is a boat with 8 people in it.
Fact: in all the flood stories, the Bible present us with a seaworthy boat.
Fact: the names of the sons of Noah return in the language groups and names of peoples.

I think the story is very believable.

Sweet Christ on a bike. You really thing the Noah story is plausible? A pair of every species of animal on planet Earth from Elephant to bluebottle fitting on one boat as well as over half a years supply of food? For not a shred of evidence supporting a global flood which presumably would have required sea levels to rise above the height of the the Andes Mountain Range where humans civilizations were living at the time? You do realise that something of this nature could not possibly have gone unnoticed in the geological record?

The mass extinction at the end of the Permian period saw up to 99.5% of individual creatures dying, 95% of all marine species going extinct. This was 250 million years ago and we have extensive evidence for it, a similar event just a few thousand years ago could not possibly have escaped our attention. In writing this I have just realised that as you believe in Noah then you most likely believe in the young earth theory and so it is only a few thousand years old so mentioning the Permian period and geology probably is a waste of time.

robindch

Depeche_Mode wrote: »

You really thing the Noah story is plausible? [...] You do realise that something of this nature could not possibly have gone unnoticed in the geological record?

I'm happy to say that thanks to the magic of the internet, I've been able to find a post I made last July on this very topic. OK, I didn't go into the monumental problems with how many millions of animal species you'd have to have on board, nor where you'd find them, nor how you'd keep some, while searching for more, nor what you'd feed them with (except for each other), nor what to do with the copious quantities of excrement they'd produce, now how they'd redistribute themselves around the globe when the waters subsided. Others had tackled those topics better than I could, and came up with a few resonant images to take away and consider in those dull moments when boards.ie is offline.

Instead, I stuck to the geology and the hydrology of the problem, as it's a bit easier to visualize, if of course, you can visualize a 2,000km icecube drifting into the earth and melting. The full details are here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=51810171

Do enjoy.