Is anyone here athiest/agnostic, but also spiritual?

white_falcon

This may sound as thought its conflicting. I think of myself of an atheist, but I would also like to think of myself as being "spiritual". I suppose it depends on your definition of the term spiritual, but would anyone else here see themselves as being "spiritual" in any way?

Things that make me think I would be "spiritual" is that sometimes if I'm having a bad day I might just sit down and meditate. Also, I believe in karma - what goes around does come around in my opinion and experience.

So can an atheist be also "spiritual" in your opinion, or are they conflicting points of view? I don't mean, "I am spiritual, so does that mean I believe in God?", but just what are your opinions on it. Is anyone else the same?

CerebralCortex

To me being atheist means not believing in God. It doesn't mean I don't believe in possibilities. Most of my beliefs are based on logic and fact and they are dynamic i.e. what I believe today I may not believe tomorrow.

white_falcon

True - I suppose the core belief of atheism is not believing in god. Spirituality doesnt need "God" to be present to exist

CerebralCortex

Atheism does not equal Nihilism. I won't lie to you I do have a slight agenda against the organised religions especially the Catholic Church but I believe in a persons right to personal beliefs as long as they don't obstruct my path.

Dave!

A rationalist/whatever is likely to be an atheist as well as not believing in paranormal stuff. An atheist may still believe in paranormal stuff though. It's like: most heroin users have used marijuana; most marijuana users have NOT used heroin

I'm not sure how 'spirituality' might be defined..... So dunno if I am or not.

I generally don't believe in paranormal stuff, including karma. I don't feel any 'spiritual' (?) connection with nature, for example. I do enjoy it and think it's beautiful, but I don't feel connected to it.

I dunno..... too hard to explain....

white_falcon

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Atheism does not equal Nihilism. I won't lie to you I do have a slight agenda against the organised religions especially the Catholic Church but I believe in a persons right to personal beliefs as long as they don't obstruct my path.

to be honest, organised religion is one of the biggest and probably the main reason as to why I am an atheist. They are too powerful, have non religious aims, control too much of society, employ far from moral means to achieve their goals.

People say cancer is the biggest killer - religion is. How many wars, battles, killings have been made in the name of "religion"?

Anyhoo..yea I far prefer to be spiritual than any way "religious". Religious tells me to believe something in a certain way, of a certain thing and any deviation from that is wrong. The Catholic church in particular tells us to believe in a book written 2000 years ago about a "magician" (in my opinion) - I chose to not listen to someone constantly tell me I have to believe in that - looking at it closer, they are telling us to have "faith" in the person that wrote the bible, rather than what the bible says really.

Spirituality I feel can also be more helpful to a single person rather than a group as a whole. Organised religion never seems to work in most cases - having said that there are of course some out there. I think if I was ever to "have to" have a religion it would be Buddhism.

white_falcon

DaveMcG wrote: »

A rationalist/whatever is likely to be an atheist as well as not believing in paranormal stuff. An atheist may still believe in paranormal stuff though. It's like: most heroin users have used marijuana; most marijuana users have NOT used heroin

I'm not sure how 'spirituality' might be defined..... So dunno if I am or not.

I generally don't believe in paranormal stuff, including karma. I don't feel any 'spiritual' (?) connection with nature, for example. I do enjoy it and think it's beautiful, but I don't feel connected to it.

I dunno..... too hard to explain....

yea I know what you mean. Its just hard to define "spirituality" really. I suppose its whatever your own take on it is, but for me, its just that feeling sometimes of looking at something beautiful and just going "wow...I'm glad I exist and I'm here right now" - not "thank you god for creating me"

eoin5

I think theism limits ability to understand spirituality. If we could discuss spirituality and the experiences people have had without the whole god thing dominating it I think we could gain more understanding. I feel connected to something bigger than myself and I've had a few surreal experiences but I dont think it was Jahoba, if it was anyone it was probably Eris.

fatmammycat

I don't believe in any spiritual anything, but nether am I a nihilist.
Also, I don't believe religion is the biggest killer in the world, I think greed and thirst for complete control is. Religion is just the convenient cover story. As a non religious person it's easy to see how religion gets the blame for everything, but a lot of religious people do a lot of good in the world too, if for the most odd reasons.

white_falcon

fatmammycat wrote: »

Also, I don't believe religion is the biggest killer in the world, I think greed and thirst for complete control is. Religion is just the convenient cover story. As a non religious person it's easy to see how religion gets the blame for everything, but a lot of religious people do a lot of good in the world too, if for the most odd reasons.

very true

its the people in control of the religions that are responsible for many deaths - history has shown us that.

but yes - Religion has done a lot of good in the world, but the bad stuff really outshines it. However, the small part of religion that does good in the world does make a difference I do believe. I dont know does it balance it out, but it can make a difference to some people in need

Religion does get a lot of blame for everything bad in the world, but its not hard to see why in my opinion. Hell everyday on the news theres deaths somewhere in the world due to religion

Whispered

I don't believe in God, I am very spiritual - As I have learned by being here however it seems that spirituality is discounted as nonsense by a lot of athiests. You start talking or asking about spirituality and it's not long before people are talking about fairies and other such things :rolleyes:

interestinguser

The spiritual means different things to different people hence it is difficult to have a meaningful discussion about it. I would consider myself 'spiritual' (as an atheist), but only for my own meaning of spiritual.

Dave!

helena.ryan wrote: »

I don't believe in God, I am very spiritual - As I have learned by being here however it seems that spirituality is discounted as nonsense by a lot of athiests. You start talking or asking about spirituality and it's not long before people are talking about fairies and other such things :rolleyes:

Well if you bring up crap like karma, you're just asking for silly analogies.......

Tim Robbins

Again I think the problem is what is meant by spiritual.
If you mean the feelings of serenity, elation, escapism, passion, beauty, love. Yes of course I and many other atheist feel it.

Dades

I believe in karma to a degree.

If you act like a dick your whole life you are more likely to end up in a pit filled with lime. The idea of karma isn't far off the "golden rule" if you ask me.

Dave!

That's just common sense Dades, I think it's unhelpful/confusing to call it karma! Fact is even if you're the nicest child in sub-Saharan Africa you're very likely to die before adulthood because of HIV/AIDS. The word 'karma' has supernatural/paranormal/'spiritual':p connotations that I think are different to the idea that if you treat people well, they're likely to treat you well also. It doesn't mean that they WILL, but they often do.

BTW, I believe there's an actual definition of karma that Buddhists (maybe?) believe in and it's not simply 'do good and good will be done unto you'. So maybe we're all confused!

Dades

If it make you more comfortable, than I guess then I believe in 'atheist karma':

"What goes around may be statistically more likely to come around".

pH

Yea this whole karma thing ... people tend to do nice things for nice people, and tend to to nasty things to nasty people, who'd have thought it?

Anything more that that, that there's some sort of cosmic balancing act going on is easily proven false.

Karma would appear to be quite happy with rapists winning the lottery leaving it up to plain old human justice to fix it.

Dave!

Dades wrote: »

If it make you more comfortable, than I guess then I believe in 'atheist karma':

"What goes around may be statistically more likely to come around".

That's more like it! Doesn't have the same ring to it, but oh well, theists can have their poetry!

Myksyk

"Spiritual" is just a catch all term for a range of deeply interesting, complex human cognitive and emotional experiences. Worse than being vague and ambiguous the term pretends to be a sort of pseudo-explanantion for those experiences when it is nothing of the kind, and prevents or delfects people from seeking the beginnnings of real explanations for them. Some, it seems, feel that to attempt to explain these experiences simply dilutes them - a sort of 'unweaving the rainbow' scenario. I don't agree. I often have an experience of being deeply awed by the breadth and majesty of existence but in my opinion this is most likely explained by the workings of my brain. They're none the less special experiences because of this.

bogwalrus

spirituality i think has alot to do with the "oneness" of the universe and that all things are connected in some way or form.

Its kind of like the fact that everything that existed in this universe at one point came from a certain point before the big bang so its not too hard to believe that since we were all connected at one point (the singularity) that we are still connected at some level. I do believe in a kind of balancing in the world and that being altruistic makes your life better and the world better. I think it is obvious that people do good not only because of their morals but because it makes logical sense to be nice and help people, as what goes around does seem to come around.

Zillah

bogwalrus wrote: »

spirituality i think has alot to do with the "oneness" of the universe and that all things are connected in some way or form.

Its kind of like the fact that everything that existed in this universe at one point came from a certain point before the big bang so its not too hard to believe that since we were all connected at one point (the singularity) that we are still connected at some level.

Nnnnnnnnonesense.

JC 2K3

Myksyk wrote: »

"Spiritual" is just a catch all term for a range of deeply interesting, complex human cognitive and emotional experiences. Worse than being vague and ambiguous the term pretends to be a sort of pseudo-explanantion for those experiences when it is nothing of the kind, and prevents or delfects people from seeking the beginnnings of real explanations for them. Some, it seems, feel that to attempt to explain these experiences simply dilutes them - a sort of 'unweaving the rainbow' scenario. I don't agree. I often have an experience of being deeply awed by the breadth and majesty of existence but in my opinion this is most likely explained by the workings of my brain. They're none the less special experiences because of this.

QFT.

I would discourage the use of the word "spiritual", because it pertains to nothing besides what the user has designed to define it as. It seems to be used by many atheists/agnostics so they're not thought of as cold, heartless, cynical atheists, when in reality their behavior is no different to any other non-believer.

white_falcon, IMO you're not spiritual, you practice the perfectly natural and human act of reflection and meditation. I can't see where "spirits" or anything paranormal comes into this.

Obni

Can you be agnostic and spiritual? Yes.

Can you be atheist and spiritual? I'd have to answer using 2 further questions.
1. Can you be spiritual, but not believe in gods or a particular religion? Yes.
2. Are you an atheist if you not believe in gods or a particular religion? Well....

I guess we're back to the old problem of the label 'atheist'; i.e. defining a person by what they don't believe.
A problem highlighted by someone's claim to be an a-unicornist rather than an atheist, as they don't believe in unicorns just as much as they don't believe in gods.
Many atheists extend their rejection of things supernatural beyond religion and into areas associated with spirituality, such as karma, universal inter-connectedness, deism, ghosts, etc..., but there is no accepted 'hard' atheist or 'ultra' atheist label for those who reject all supernatural piffle.

If you try to create a label you end up clashing with other philosophical or social groupings (e.g. a rationalist or a naturalist) or a term people don't recognise (e.g. a bright).

lookinforpicnic

Myksyk wrote: »

"Spiritual" is just a catch all term for a range of deeply interesting, complex human cognitive and emotional experiences. Worse than being vague and ambiguous the term pretends to be a sort of pseudo-explanantion for those experiences when it is nothing of the kind, and prevents or delfects people from seeking the beginnnings of real explanations for them. Some, it seems, feel that to attempt to explain these experiences simply dilutes them - a sort of 'unweaving the rainbow' scenario. I don't agree. I often have an experience of being deeply awed by the breadth and majesty of existence but in my opinion this is most likely explained by the workings of my brain. They're none the less special experiences because of this.

nicely summed up

OK-Cancel-Apply

IMO humans are just biochemical supercomputers. Exactly like any other animal, only vastly more intelligent. We don't have any sort of intangible connection to the rest of the universe. Of course, if anyone finds hard evidence to the contrary, I'm all ears! There is much we don't understand, and I get excited when I think of what we may discover in this century. That gives me a sense of wonder, but I can never call it 'spiritual'.. that reminds me too much of the whole 'we don't understand, so it MUST be god' position, and I don't see any intellectual substance in that.

Myksyk

I do think that it is a profound sense of wonder, or of being deeply awed by something (usually producing a very specific and generally unfamiliar emotional state) that is most often labelled as a 'spiritual' experience. The combination of specific 'deeply meaningful' cognitive activities (of great importance and value to the thinker) and the concommitant emotional arousal (which is a combination of what is happening physically and/or neurologically, and our interpretation of it) is a pretty potent combination. I treasure these moments but don't feel I have to draw on a supernatural explanation to account for them. Inside our skull we have the most complex structure in the known universe yet we seem to blithely dismiss the possibility that it could be responsible for our 'spiritual' experiences.

Obni

Myksyk wrote: »

I do think that it is a profound sense of wonder, or of being deeply awed by something (usually producing a very specific and generally unfamiliar emotional state) that is most often labelled as a 'spiritual' experience.

Nail on the head!
People that hold to the dualist notion of a physical body and a separate metaphysical soul/mind/spirit part tend to attribute such experiences to the metaphysical bit; whereas (as you so clearly describe) the physical part is sufficient.

salfriz

Is anyone here athiest/agnostic, but also spiritual?

It does depend on what you mean by spiritual. You mentioned meditation and karma which could both be regarded as psychological..ie: meditation..trainging the mind to focus on a single thing or to contemplate something and karma..negitive or positive emotions as a result of actions, impacting on other areas and at other times in your life. If you mean a belief in an afterlife, angels or any other spiritual being, you might ask yourself what more reason do you have to believe in these than you do to believe in god..

anomie_desuetud

I'm an atheist and I'm not spititual. I don't see how I could be spiritual. It hasn't been fully defined but I'd see it as 'spirit' as in 'mind, body and spirit/soul'. That I do not recognise and I'm at a loss to see where it fits in to atheism, unless as a synonym for 'consciousness', which it is not.

Xhristy

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