N3 / M50 Junction Upgrade

Irish and Proud

I was looking up the Wikipedia in relation to the N3 and came across something rather ghastly:

'... The NRA stated in response to a query at the statutory oral hearing into the M3 toll scheme, held in Navan on January 17, 2007 that the N3/M50 junction would now not be fully free flow as widely believed. Motorists traveling north on the M50 wishing to leave the motorway at the N3 interchange to travel west on the N3 (Cavan and Ballyshannon) or east on the N3 (Dublin) will have to pass through traffic light controlled junctions.'

So the proposal in the EIS is basically unbuildable - what the f***??? :eek:
I thought the configuration looked rather tight when I was examining the M50 EIS CD. Should the people who proposed this be relieved of their duties??? - I for one think so! :mad:

So, how do we sort out this debacle? - Well I have an idea - the EIS shows proposals for the construction of a 2 lane N3 South to M50 South connector, and a 2 lane connector vice-versa. If space for these links over the M50 and under the railway+canal+existing n3 is insufficient, then would reducing both connectors to one lane be better than a complete omission of one? Why have a complete 2 lane connector going South and none in the opposite direction - is this not a bit silly??? Can the engineers not exercise a little more consistency?

But what about future proofing? - Well, the problem with cross river capacity does not rest with the N3 / M50 junction alone, it also rests with the N4 / M50 Junction (M50 South to N4 West is just one lane! ), while the Westlink with its 4 narrow lanes each way will be quickly overwhelmed. The Westlink needs expansion to at least 2 x 5 lanes - 3 lanes + H/S (an exact fit for the existing 14m decks) plus two 8m decks (2 lanes) either side of the existing crossing. This would allow elongation of the tight North facing ramps from the N4 junction. This in turn, would provide scope for an interchange at Carpenterstown without any extra interference with the M50 mainline (N4 access/egress points would be further North). Effectively, the outer ring link-up problem across Liffey would be solved! (N4 from Liffey Valley to M50 interchange would require an upgrade, but would require it anyway).

So, what do you guys think?

I'll leave it there for now!

darkman2

Irish and Proud wrote: »

I was looking up the Wikipedia in relation to the N3 and came across something rather ghastly:

'... The NRA stated in response to a query at the statutory oral hearing into the M3 toll scheme, held in Navan on January 17, 2007 that the N3/M50 junction would now not be fully free flow as widely believed. Motorists traveling north on the M50 wishing to leave the motorway at the N3 interchange to travel west on the N3 (Cavan and Ballyshannon) or east on the N3 (Dublin) will have to pass through traffic light controlled junctions.'

So the proposal in the EIS is basically unbuildable - what the f***??? :eek:
I thought the configuration looked rather tight when I was examining the M50 EIS CD. Should the people who proposed this be relieved of their duties??? - I for one think so! :mad:

So, how do we sort out this debacle? - Well I have an idea - the EIS shows proposals for the construction of a 2 lane N3 South to M50 South connector, and a 2 lane connector vice-versa. If space for these links over the M50 and under the railway+canal+existing n3 is insufficient, then would reducing both connectors to one lane be better than a complete omission of one? Why have a complete 2 lane connector going South and none in the opposite direction - is this not a bit silly??? Can the engineers not exercise a little more consistency?

But what about future proofing? - Well, the problem with cross river capacity does not rest with the N3 / M50 junction alone, it also rests with the N4 / M50 Junction (M50 South to N4 West is just one lane! ), while the Westlink with its 4 narrow lanes each way will be quickly overwhelmed. The Westlink needs expansion to at least 2 x 5 lanes - 3 lanes + H/S (an exact fit for the existing 14m decks) plus two 8m decks (2 lanes) either side of the existing crossing. This would allow elongation of the tight North facing ramps from the N4 junction. This in turn, would provide scope for an interchange at Carpenterstown without any extra interference with the M50 mainline (N4 access/egress points would be further North). Effectively, the outer ring link-up problem across Liffey would be solved! (N4 from Liffey Valley to M50 interchange would require an upgrade, but would require it anyway).

So, what do you guys think?

I'll leave it there for now!

Nothing is 'unbuildable'. This is exactly why I want to know why we dont have images yet on the official website(s) of exactly what is being built on phase 2? The N7 changed swiftly enough for example.

Chris_533976

Plus its Wikipedia, and although I love the site, I'd take claims like that with a pinch of salt until I hear it elsewhere.

Chris_533976

Email sent to find out when the site will be up.

spacetweek

Irish and Proud wrote: »

'... The NRA stated in response to a query at the statutory oral hearing into the M3 toll scheme, held in Navan on January 17, 2007 that the N3/M50 junction would now not be fully free flow as widely believed. Motorists traveling north on the M50 wishing to leave the motorway at the N3 interchange to travel west on the N3 (Cavan and Ballyshannon) or east on the N3 (Dublin) will have to pass through traffic light controlled junctions.'

So the proposal in the EIS is basically unbuildable - what the f***??? :eek:
I thought the configuration looked rather tight when I was examining the M50 EIS CD. Should the people who proposed this be relieved of their duties??? - I for one think so! :mad:

I'm a bit confused by this. The N3/M50 diagram released in the EIS shows freeflow for this movement. The full list is:

M50 NB:
To Navan: FF
To City: Roundabout

M50 SB:
To Navan: FF
To City: Roundabout

N3 Outbound:
To M50 South: FF
To M50 North: Roundabout

N3 Inbound:
To M50 South: FF
To M50 North: FF

N3 Straight through Citybound: FF
N3 Straight through Navan bound: Roundabout!!!


The last one there is particularly silly, no? What I'm hoping is that they'll do a Red Cow on it and substitute a better version at build time.

D.L.R.

spacetweek wrote: »

I'm a bit confused by this. The N3/M50 diagram released in the EIS shows freeflow for this movement. The full list is:

M50 NB:
To Navan: FF
To City: Roundabout

M50 SB:
To Navan: FF
To City: Roundabout

N3 Outbound:
To M50 South: FF
To M50 North: Roundabout

N3 Inbound:
To M50 South: FF
To M50 North: FF

N3 Straight through Citybound: FF
N3 Straight through Navan bound: Roundabout!!!


The last one there is particularly silly, no? What I'm hoping is that they'll do a Red Cow on it and substitute a better version at build time.

Yeah N3 outbound via roundabout is a joke. Don't the authorities get the point of these upgrades at all? If they had built freeflow in the first place, these upgrades and all the ensuing choas would not be necessary. There's a lesson to be learned there: don't build by halves and get it right, ffs!

In fairness though, the N3 blueprint is old and I reckon its being looked at again. They originally had the luas crossing slips on the new N7 junction! Makes you wonder who's in charge...

L1011

Looking at the map for this in the Indo today (ad for the EIS availabilty) and I have to say I can't understand it... It looks like they're doing something very strange for traffic coming out of Blanch village, for one thing. Are there any better plans/maps available anywhere?

Dexterm99

MYOB,
I can't find it. Can you reply with the link?
Thanks
Dexterm

L1011

Page 47, big wad of dead tree, sitting on my desk...

darkman2

Anyone got a scanner?;)

What address do they give for the EIS?

spacetweek

Have the PDF but it's 20+ meg.
Scan below. Sorry it's a bit small, I had to reduce size to get around Boards' restrictions.

Skyhater

More information/pics on this thread.

It certainly looks like a huge Job!!!!

Anyone know when the work will start?