N3 roadworks - speed limit

Omcd

N3 roadworks between Bracetown and Fairyhouse Cross - 60 kph signs have gone up - IMO this has been a speed limit waiting to happen given all the mud and slow trucks/machinery lumbering around so no quibbles about that, but could they get their act together and hood all the other pre existing speed signs (100kmh, 80 kmh for bus lane) its so confusing to know what limit applies to what stretch of road. Last time there was a roadworks speed limit in this area they didnt hood the usual signs either, so you were getting a 60k sign followed by a 100k sign a few hundred metres on followed by another 60 then another 100, and so on for two or three miles.... I did enquire at the time and was told it was all legally enforcable 60 k along that stretch.
The first large 60 sign outbound went up a few days ago at Bracetown, but nothing to indicate where the 60 limit was intended to end (as it was followed by the usual 80/100 signs which may or may not have been supposed to hooded) Today there is a corresponding large 100 sign outbound beyond Fairyhouse Cross, with a 60k sign other side of road for inbound traffic, so I guess, and its only a guess, that all the way in between there and Bracetown (the whole roadwords) is supposed to 60 despite 100k signs in between. Note the large 60 sign inbound (which I think is the first inbound sign) is within the grid for the speed camera before Fairyhouse Cross - this then might now be set to 60k as I would guess that, although the camera itself is in what I assume to be a 100k limit, at the point the pictures would be taken you would be level with or just past the 60 sign

Seth Brundle

It sounds like what they have done at the N4/Newcastle junction works.
The council brought in a 50km/h limit for the next year.
They then put up both a 65km/h limit signs on the outbound carriageway which used a non-standard black circle and not red. I notified them about this and got this reply which AFAIK didn't address my initial query (regarding the legality of the black circle).
They eventually replaced the 65km/h signs with 60km/h ones. The inbound lane was lucky enough to a 50km/h, a 55km/h and the original 80km/h speed limit - 55km/h sign again using a black circle.
However there is still several 80km/h signs both on the N4 and on entrances to it.
They really don't give a shít!

Victor

http://www.hsa.ie/eng/

Seth Brundle

My wife was describing the Dublin-bound lane. The first 60km/h sign that one passes is right beside the speed camera. Give a guess what happens when people suddenly spot both?

Omcd

Particularily when it's just around a 100k bend in the road...

I see this morning that there are now big 'Advisory Speed Limit' signs under the relevant speed limit signs, which provide the necessary clarification, but why they couldn't have put up the whole set of signs at once I do not know - its the same thing as painting the road with temporary lane markings and then later changing the layout with cones or other hard obstructions but waiting several days to modify the painted lane markings to match.

The fact that the 60k is advisory I think will suit a lot of drivers on the N3 - particularily those who think the 60k limit by the bus lane south of Dunshaughlin is also advisory (which it isn't)

Seth Brundle

I don't know whether its advisory or not but the reality s that people won't know better. They will see the speed limit sign and then the camera and panic!

Victor

This thread now monitored by the Department of Transport.

Hello!

Seth Brundle

Wouldn't their time be better spent making sure that speed limit changes aren't done right beside a speed camera (assuming there is concern for safety, etc.) rather than monitoring online activity?

Victor

kbannon wrote: »

Wouldn't their time be better spent making sure that speed limit changes aren't done right beside a speed camera (assuming there is concern for safety, etc.) rather than monitoring online activity?

This thread was pointed out as something where things are going wrong. If we don't tell them whats wrong and let them understand, it isn't as easy to fix the problem, is it?

Seth Brundle

Fair enough - I just wish it was done right in the first place!

Victor

Update

Subject: RE: Temporary road works speed limits
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 16:07:14 +0100
From: Senior Official@Transport.ie
To: Victor

Victor

Your email query below refers. I regret that there has been a delay in replying to you to clarify the position for use in relation to the road signs that you encountered.

The position is that a rectangular plate sign with the unit 25, 35, 45, 55 , 65 or 75 km/h in black figures/letters on a white background may be used by road authorities at roadworks in association with the black on orange coloured Roadworks warning signs such as the Man at Work ahead sign, the Slippery Road sign or Loose Chippings sign to indicate the speed which traffic is recommended not to exceed. It is a cautionary speed sign. The use of these rectangular plate cautionary speed limit signs is authorised by the Minister for Transport in the revised chapter 8 of the Traffic Signs Manual and the direction for use has a statutory basis under section 95(16) of the Road Traffic Act 1961.

The standard speed limit is in force at that location (i.e. maximum road speed limit that is signed by the red border disc sign with black figures on white) but due to the temporary conditions that are present i.e. loose chippings etc a driver is informed that a lower speed than the legal speed limit is recommended at that location. These cautionary signs will be located therefore between the red border regulatory maximum speed limit signs. The purpose is to give extra notice to the passing motorist that a situation out of the ordinary is prevailing and that a lower speed is recommended. The speed units are deliberately 'odd' so as to distinguish the figures from the six regulatory speed limit units of 120, 100, 80, 60, 50 or 30 km/h.


Yours sincerely

Senior Official
Department of Transport
20 May 2008

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Original Message

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From: Department of Transport
Sent: 15 February 2008 12:45
To: Senior Official
Subject: FW: Temporary road works speed limits

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Original Message

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From: Victor
Sent: 10 February 2008 08:47
To: wcu@hsa.ie; Department of Transport
Subject: Temporary road works speed limits

Hi,

Something I have become aware of over the last two weeks. Councils and roadworks contractors are erecting temporary speed limits that appear:

(a) not to comply with the RSM
(b) not to otherwise comply with legislation
(c) to have 'odd' speeds, e.g. 55km/h, 65km/h
(d) to be intermixed with the permanent signs, e.g. 50 (temporary) - 100 (permanent) - 50 (temporary) - 100 (permanent) in rapid sucession.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=55099724#post55099724
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=55053149&postcount=682

The N4/M50 and M3 works are examples.

Can something be done to put the councils on notice?

Victor

Steve

Victor wrote: »

Update

Is the manual online somewhere or do you have a private copy?

Victor

http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=9095&lang=ENG&loc=1225