Definition of Vermin could give access to lands???

ivanthehunter

The Government have the ability or power to add or remove species from the list of vermin.. (TRUE).
If the Government call a species vermin, are they saying that this is a species that has no use, or this species is a hindrance to the successful running of a country and as such this species should be shot on sight?
If the government claims that a creature refereed to as vermin can be killed at any time and in any safe place does this not mean that the government has given it consent to hunt and perhaps shoot such animals on government land...
Does Hunting in the Irish statute book only refer to proper deer hunting.. surly the eradication and or population control of fox and rabbit numbers is the civic duty of a free state man and is not refered to hunting per say' Surly hunting is for food and thats that.

What does NoNameRanger think on this approach to land access:rolleyes:

Mellor

Wow, that is probably the silliest post on hunting i've ever heard. Do you actually believe this or are you just messing with interpetation, because it its the former, I think that is an unsafe attitude

Vermin means that it is a problem species, and should be controlled. This can be a number of reasons which are obvious if you mentally think of each.

It does not mean they should be shot on sight.

THey can be killed in any safe place at any time, but do you actually think this means to can shoot anywhere without permission?

fathersymes

Armed Trespass comes to mind.

bunny shooter

Ruskie the hunter seems to be attempting to start argument on a few threads recently, do I smell troll ?

NoNameRanger

You have a very strange way of interpeting things, I've read a few more of your posts and you've left me scratching my head at times.
The wildlife service does not use the word vermin for starters. There are protected and un-protected species. Nothing gives you the right to enter on or shoot over anybodies land including government land without permission!

ivanthehunter wrote: »

The Government have the ability or power to add or remove species from the list of vermin.. (TRUE).

I've never seen anything called "The list of vermin", all i've seen are schedules that list Protected species and Derogations that allow control of certain species.

If the Government call a species vermin, are they saying that this is a species that has no use, or this species is a hindrance to the successful running of a country and as such this species should be shot on sight?

No!!!!!! It should only be shot when it is nescessary to prevent damage to crops or livestock and for food. They will have to protect those animals should everybody take your view.

If the government claims that a creature refereed to as vermin can be killed at any time and in any safe place does this not mean that the government has given it consent to hunt and perhaps shoot such animals on government land...

No!!!! If and they don't claim! Nothing gives you the right to enter onto anybodies land. Where have you been getting your information? What are you reading?

Does Hunting in the Irish statute book only refer to proper deer hunting.. surly the eradication and or population control of fox and rabbit numbers is the civic duty of a free state man and is not refered to hunting per say' Surly hunting is for food and thats that.

Are you taking the piss or what? Civic duty? Free state man? Look up the definition of hunting in the wildlfe act itself! Where did you get your definition? Buy a copy of the wildlife acts from government publications maybe.

What does NoNameRanger think on this approach to land access

He thinks it's absolute madness or your taking the piss!

ivanthehunter

oken thanks for putting things straight in my twisted head.. you can all rest easy as i done nothing illegal.. but at least some of you could see my angle of attack... looks like sound advice and i no troll!!!:o

José Alaninho

three letters lads: WTF?

Our man in Havana

José Alaninho wrote: »

three letters lads: WTF?

Indeed, WTF?

ivanthehunter

ok wtf-- i just asked a question... and thats what people do if there in douth or want to read between the lines.. there are laws and there are law breakers and i dont break laws i work with them..-- or i work around them:rolleyes:

ivanthehunter

fathersymes wrote: »

Armed Trespass comes to mind.

theres no such thing-- its trespass with intent to hunt-- this covers all from guns to snares and even dogs..... you sound like a theif

eoinkildare

trespass with intent to hunt? under what section of what act?
this is a question not an attempt to insult you by the way

bunny shooter

If you enter property without a weapon it's trespass, enter property with a weapon it becomes armed trespass, how simple do you want it ?

As for the rest of the questions you've posted on this forum it leads me to believe that you are up to/intend to be up to no good.

You claim you obey the law, or bend it, as far as I'm concerned there is no place for people like you in the shooting community, either target or hunting

eoinkildare

well i've heard of tresspass. and i've heard of robbery. but armed versions of each aren't actually separated under them law. possession of a firearm with intent to kill, injure etc. producing a weapon during a dispute. but never heard of armed tresspass

bunny shooter

eoinkildare wrote: »

well i've heard of tresspass. and i've heard of robbery. but armed versions of each aren't actually separated under them law. possession of a firearm with intent to kill, injure etc. producing a weapon during a dispute. but never heard of armed tresspass

Well, just because you haven't heard if it doesn't mean it doesn't exist :rolleyes:

Why do you think Gardai respond to reports of people on property with firearms, especially when the landowner contacts them ?

Trespass is a civil crime, armed trespass isn't

eoinkildare

bunny shooter wrote: »

Well, just because you haven't heard if it doesn't mean it doesn't exist :rolleyes:

Why do you think Gardai respond to reports of people on property with firearms, especially when the landowner contacts them ?

Trespass is a civil crime, armed trespass isn't

so what section under what act? tresspass is a crime under section 11 and 13 of the CRIMINAL justice (public order) act 1994 actually. there is also a civil crime.

bunny shooter

eoinkildare wrote: »

so what section under what act? tresspass is a crime under section 11 and 13 of the CRIMINAL justice (public order) act 1994 actually. there is also a civil crime.

I'll be back

Our man in Havana

UK Law
http://www.airpistol.co.uk/airgun_law.htm

Trespass
If you go on to any land, including over water and in buildings, without permission you are Trespassing. If you have an Airgun with you it is classed as Armed Trespass which is a serious Criminal offence even if the gun is not loaded.

Can't find anything similar in Ireland.

bunny shooter

Bond-007 wrote: »

UK Law
http://www.airpistol.co.uk/airgun_law.htm


Can't find anything similar in Ireland.

Temporarily back

Irish Law is much the same as English Law ...............

I'll be back ........... again

meathstevie

You only need to research the difference in tariff for shoplifting and armed robbery. Both are theft but you'll be likely to get a slap on the wrist for a first offence being caught shoplifting. You'll be doing five to ten for a first armed robbery

bunny shooter

meathstevie wrote: »

You only need to research the difference in tariff for shoplifting and armed robbery. Both are theft but you'll be likely to get a slap on the wrist for a first offence being caught shoplifting. You'll be doing five to ten for a first armed robbery

5-10 slaps on the wrist ? not too bad

sorry couldn't help myself:o

eoinkildare

meathstevie wrote: »

You only need to research the difference in tariff for shoplifting and armed robbery. Both are theft but you'll be likely to get a slap on the wrist for a first offence being caught shoplifting. You'll be doing five to ten for a first armed robbery

correction, both are under the theft act. one is simple theft. other is robbery. difference is the threat or use of violence.
law here is similar to english law but not the exact same, and its enforced differently too, thank god. well, its great when you get off with a ticket by chatting to the guard, but a bitch when different supers wont give certs for guns!
eoin

NoNameRanger

Armed Trespass is a term commonly used to say hunting on land without permission by Rangers, Gardai and hunters. It is not a term that is used in the Wildlife act itself in Ireland. It is covered by section 44 of the wildlife 1976 as ammended 2000.

Below is section 44 with the ammended bits, not an offical legal version, just for casual reference.

Worth reading and understanding it!!;)

It's your responsibility to understand this if you hunt.

Ivan, probably best if you get your solicitor to explain it to you:):)

44.—(1) Any person who not being the owner or occupier of land—
( a ) with a firearm or with a device, instrument or missile mentioned in section 72 (7) of this Act hunts a wild bird or wild animal on the land or moves or drives such a bird or such an animal off the land in order so to hunt it,
( b ) enters on the land for the purpose of so hunting wild birds or wild animals,
( c ) carries on the land—
(i) any firearm, or
(ii) any net, or other weapon, instrument or device capable of being used for hunting a wild bird or a wild animal,
or",
( d ) shoots over or into the land,
without the permission either of the person who is the owner or the occupier of the land or, in case some other person is entitled to enjoy sporting rights over the land, that other person, shall be guilty of an offence.
(2) Where a person who is neither the owner nor the occupier of land carries on the land a firearm, other weapon or device (or a part thereof) described in paragraph (c) of subsection (1) of this section, any of the following persons may demand of him (and take when given) his name and address, namely:
( a ) the owner or occupier of the land or a person authorised by him to exercise on his behalf the powers exercisable by such owner or occupier under this section,
( b ) a person who is entitled to enjoy sporting rights over the land or some other person so authorised by him to exercise on his behalf the powers exercisable by him under this section,
(bb) an authorised person or a member of the Garda Síochána,",
( c ) the holder, or a person deemed pursuant to section 29 (5) of this Act to be the holder, of a licence granted under that section;
provided that the power conferred by this section on a person mentioned in paragraph (c) of this subsection shall only be exercisable on the production by him of either a current licence granted to him pursuant to the said section 29 or a current firearm certificate granted to him and endorsed in accordance with the requirements of subsection (8) of that section.
(2A) An authorised person or a member of the Garda Síochána in exercising a power under subsection (2) of this section may seize any firearm, other weapon or device or part thereof.,
(3) A person who refuses or who fails to give his correct name and address on a demand therefor being duly made pursuant to this section or who on such demand gives a name and address which is false or misleading shall be guilty of an offence.
(4) Summary proceedings for an offence under this section may be prosecuted by—
( a ) a person who at the time at which the offence is alleged to have been committed (in this subsection referred to as the relevant time) is the owner or is in occupation of the land in relation to which the offence is alleged (in this subsection referred to as the relevant land),
( b ) any individual who as regards the relevant land is at the relevant time entitled to enjoy sporting rights over such land.
( c ) and in the name of the person who at the relevant time is the secretary of a recognised body which at such time is entitled to enjoy sporting rights over the relevant land.
provided that such an offence shall only be prosecuted by the secretary of a recognised body if,
(i) prior to the relevant time a notice stating that sporting rights specified in the notice over land so specified have been reserved for the body is published in a newspaper circulating in the area in which the relevant land is situate, and
(ii) the land so specified comprises or includes the relevant land.
(5) The Minister may by regulations declare any association, club, society or other body of persons which has for or amongst its objects the conservation of game to be a recognised body for the purposes of this section, and any body to which regulations under this subsection for the time being relate is in this section referred to as a recognised body.
(6) Subject to compliance with the requirements of the proviso to subsection (4) of this section, a notice published for the purposes of section 15 of the Game Preservation Act, 1930 (repealed by this Act), shall be regarded as having been published for the purposes of this Act.
(7) In any proceedings for an offence under this section it shall not be necessary for the prosecutor to prove that, at the time of the offence, a defendant
(a) was on the land without lawful authority, or
(b) was not the owner or occupier of the land,
and in case a defendant claims that he was on the land with lawful authority or is either the owner or occupier of the land, the onus of proving such authority, or that he is the owner or occupier of the land, shall be on the defendant..
(8) In this section "game" means any exempted wild mammal or any protected wild bird which is of a species specified in an order under section 24 of this Act.

bunny shooter

I'm back

Nonameranger, what can I say ?

Mellor

That was a nice little spin off topic for a bit there.

Getting back to the OP, the theme of the recent threads you have started appear to protray you in a bad light. You may or may not have bad intentions, but I suggest that you think "how does this sound" before you post future threads.

cavan shooter

That makes very interesting reading and I know it is a very good reason why if you are a NARGC gun club the lands you shoot over should be well signed and you carry club membership, and if you shoot by permission I assume you should have it in writing. It also opens the debate which I am having at present "how often should you get farmers to "re-sign" permissions to shoot.

Theoretically the club could prosecute poachers, however, can you imagine the difficulty and the danger you could be putting yourself in approaching someone and the embarrassment if the farmer has given permission to someone else (a relative) "Poaching" is rife in some places some travelling miles "Dublin and NI"

ivanthehunter

NoNameRanger wrote: »

44.—(1) Any person who not being the owner or occupier of land—
FONT][/SIZE]

If the farmers renting a field would he be an occupier??

As most land is only set for 11 months(in any year) with the current legal system any farmer managing to keep his live stock on a Field for more than 12 months (+1day???) is entitled to a lease of 12 years and then is definitely considered as the occupier by the law. If he continues unchallenged for 12 years he has squatter's rights.. and then becomes the owner.:D

eoinkildare

i don't think squatter's rights exist in ireland.

ivanthehunter

then let me in to your land for 12 years + 1 day.. sure 1/4 of the land in annamoe has been claimed.....
Did you know that if you wanted to claim land all you need to do is stock prof it with fencing and not suffer any objections in the prescribed length of time

eoinkildare

ivan do you do anything without scamming or bending/breaking the law?

Mellor

ivanthehunter wrote: »

If the farmers renting a field would he be an occupier??

As most land is only set for 11 months(in any year) with the current legal system any farmer managing to keep his live stock on a Field for more than 12 months (+1day???) is entitled to a lease of 12 years and then is definitely considered as the occupier by the law. If he continues unchallenged for 12 years he has squatter's rights.. and then becomes the owner.:D

It would come down to the contract between the owner and occupier.
The lease, regardless of the length of time involved, may or may not include shooting rights. If it does not included shooting rights then the occupier wouldn't be allowed to shoot or allow anyone to shoot. If it does he would.
Also if it contains rights they may or may not be exclusive.
If no info regarding shooting rights were specified in the lease then he could generally assume to have be allowed to shoot during the lease time, as could the owner.

DeVore

Ivan, if you know all the answers... why do you ask the questions?

If I see one more "nudge nudge wink wink" reference to a law here you wont be around to see the responses. Cut it out, no one thinks you are big nor clever.

DeV.

bunny shooter

The Boss is back

José Alaninho

bunny shooter wrote: »

The Boss is back

Thank christ, maybe now we'll see some sense on this guy's whacko threads.:rolleyes: