IAA Insurance

kdouglas

As mentioned in the IAA Update the other day, the IAA is actively working on providing individual insurance to members through the association, to get an idea of number's to tell the insurance companies (more numbers = lower price), please vote in the poll and also how much you would be willing to pay for individual insurance.

The insurance will cover a person against accidents while skirmishing in Ireland and also internationally.

Currently quotes are looking to be around €80 per person for a year's cover, but we're doing our best to get the best cover for as cheap as possible.

Arcto

Little unsure fully what you mean with this.
Does that mean a site could be opened which does not have insurance but anyone with personal insurance could play there?
Or is it just you can get medical costs covered for EG a leg injury without activly claiming fromthe site?

€80 seems fairly reasonable too.

Gatling

will the said insurance ,cover people with a pre- existant medical condition
60-80 sounds pretty ok to me

Dar

you can get medical costs covered for EG a leg injury without activly claiming fromthe site

Precisely.

Does that mean a site could be opened which does not have insurance

This would not be advisable, liability insurance is there to cover passers-by as well as players. However, if the majority of regular players have their own insurance it should hopefully reduce the premium paid by sites, lowering one of the bigger barriers when setting up a new skirmish site.

will the said insurance ,cover people with a pre- existant medical condition

We don't know at this point. We are in talks with a number of insurers but nothing is definite yet. This thread is here to guage the general level of interest more than anything else.

Cheeky monkey

Will this cover like if you get your tooth knocked out during a skirmish?

Lemming

I voted €40-60, but that's just as a happy medium to a figure of €80. I am pretty flexible with the cost of insurance, so that vote isn't a make-or-break limit for me

Gatling

well either way im intrested

NakedDex

I stuck down 40-60 too but if the cover was right I'd be willing to pay more quite happily. I've seen first hand in the last few weeks how not having exactly the right medical cover can be drastic.

iceage

Missing the point people...Are we attempting to shift the onus from locations that charge admission to partake of a sport/pastime/hobby so that what, they can charge admission, and we pay a premium so that in the event that we get injured/damaged/broken toothed/dead/ that our Assurance pays for the like said costs of injury.

Surely, we all understand that there are waivers, for the reason that if we fall and bruise our knees then we are responsible. i.e. we will not hold the event holder liable, but if we pay our own "Insurance" correct me if I'm wrong, then the onus is on us, the players for whatever might befall us, should the unfortunate event occur. The term Public Liability springs to mind, and this must be present be it a corner shop, Woodies or a sporting location. I think clarification is required before we all jump in and say "yaah whatever, jus count me in! what ever the cost..

Arcto

This would not be advisable, liability insurance is there to cover passers-by as well as players. However, if the majority of regular players have their own insurance it should hopefully reduce the premium paid by sites, lowering one of the bigger barriers when setting up a new skirmish site.

I never got a clear answer on this the last time i asked, Why the hell do you need PUBLIC liability insurance on PRIVATE land?

The public shouldnt be there in the first place and if they are then they are trespassing!(A sueable offence in itself....or cautionable by cops at least).

The only other instance i could foresee is a bb flying onto land not owned by the site organiser but then the person wasnt on the PRIVATE land so only the person who fired the BB would be responsable as i dont think the PLI would cover that.
Anyone?

iceage

If you play/take part in Airsoft or any other sport or pastime for that matter, on a "site" that charges admission then it is no longer private property while said payee's are on site. They become responsible in the sense that they must at least have public liability InsuranceIf there are exceptions to the rules guys, its news to me. I take part in many sports and the few exceptions to the rule are Martial Arts,Sky Diving, Rally driving and so on, high risk sports such as Surfing, mountain climbing and the likes of. I pay an extra premium on my accident and life Assurance for those reasons. So I'm interested why we are being asked to take part in a poll as to what we think is a reasonable amount to pay for Insurance for a non-lethal, relatively safe pastime/hobby/day out that really does not include risk of death/loss of limb or any other major drama, unless we bring it on ourselves.

CrazyRabbit

Gatling wrote: »

will the said insurance ,cover people with a pre- existant medical condition
60-80 sounds pretty ok to me

Like what? Twitchy trigger finger syndrome, BBphobia, failedtoduckitis, uncontrollable giggling?

Hivemind187

Iceage:

The reason for insurance for individuals is that, in the event of slipping off an embankment and breaking your neck, colliding with another player at high speed and rupturing a disk, throwing yourself to the ground and cracking your sternum or walking into a tree and shattering your jaw (all things that I have seen happen in other sports) you are covered properly, and far better than you would be than by a sites insurance - which you will spend the rest of your natural life trying to claim against it since you have a) signed a waiver and b) were actively engaged in the pursuit of a dangerous activity which public liability insurance will not cover.

No one is "forcing you" to buy anything, nor is anyone trying to reduce the responsibility of sites.

Regarding the cost, the quotes sought are specifically to cover the activity of airsoft (as a category 2 sport for those banging their chests about it being safe - 1 is speed walking and 3 is gaelic football so that'll give you an idea of what we are talking about here) in Ireland and engaged in skirmishing abroad (yes, that means you are covered for berget) although it isnt "travel insurance".

Crazy: In Gatlings case a pre-existing condition would be a severe problem with his hip that has him on disability. I'll give you a minute to pull your foot out of your mouth ... done? ... good. Pre existing conditions could include things like previous injuries, chronic diseases etc and it remains to be seen as to whether the companies will still insure everyone if they have these persistent conditions.

sci-ops

Okay, like the majority so far, I've posted 40-60. I am quite curious to see how this insurance would differ from scheme's such as the Hospital Saturday Fund. I used to have this cover when I was a referee, yes I know, boo...hiss etc., but from what I remember it covered most sports injuries and was reasonably cheap.

Hivemind187

Its interesting, one of the places we are speaking to insures in "bands" so if you buy band 1 insurance you are covered for all sports in that band. If you buy band 2 you are insured for both band 1 and band 2 sports.

bullets

I currently have no interest in paying a yearly fee for Insurance.
I would be mainly collecting and not skirmishing.
(I could change my mind if I started to Skirmish regularly and see a benefit)

Any Skirmish site will need public liability insurance unless its members only.
its going to have to cater for guests or general Joe Soaps that turn up to give
Airsoft a try and that wont have private insurance.

I have no issues paying a yearly fee like 20-30 or a bit more for IAA membership
to allow me and support me (if things go Poo) with regards to collecting, buying and owning airsoft equipment. (I would love to see a membership card also it would be handy)

My fencing(swords) insurance I think was only about 20 bucks last time I paid for it.
I'd be thinking more along those lines of a fee like that and not the likes of 80.
For people that may be doing several different sports that all need insurance it would quickly add up!!!

This brings up an interesting point with regards to is airsoft a shooting sport or not type of thing. Currently I pay a yearly fee for my shooting club. They in turn pay for my insurance
with the Country side alliance. If Airsoft was/is considered a shooting sport then in theory
my Shooting insurance should or could cover me for both shooting and airsoft.

~B

Fallschirmjager

bullets, to quote my warlord comics from the 70's..


achtung minen....:D

good post no doubt...but this could head into 'dere be dragons' territory fairly quickly with the RS comments...

TheFlatulator

I would be more than willing to pay for insurance, i was reading about it in AI seeing that most skirmishers in the UK have it I think would be a good idea it would help in getting more places open...

€80 is not bad at all, infact its a damn sexy quote, it normally £80 in the uk for it...

MAD Ozzie

80 Euros for 1 years insurance is fine by me. Just glad to see the IAA is lookin into it, ive spent the last 3 weeks serching the country for insurance, and only found 1 coumpany that will even look at insurance for a site, and personal cover insurance from the UK. Never mind convincing the land owner to lease me a site for airsoft, insurance or not. Now im just thinking of team members ONLY on site, and F the plublic. So I do hope some good comes out of it.

Dar

bullets wrote: »

I'd be thinking more along those lines of a fee like that and not the likes of 80.
For people that may be doing several different sports that all need insurance it would quickly add up!!!

The type of cover we are looking at would cover not only airsoft, but also any other sports within or below the same 'tier'. This includes sports such as mountain biking, fencing, paintball, a number of martial arts and football. Funnily enough, after a bit of digging I just discovered that it would also cover both pistol and rifle target shooting.

IRISH RAIL

would that mean a reduction in cost to iaa members who have insurance at all the sites?

Gizmodeon

And what if you have your own personal insurance?
Will it be the case that you will have to pay if you don't want it?
I don't mind paying for other IAA things such as the training etc etc
I'd say it would be the same case for most collectors

Dar

Gizmodeon wrote: »

And what if you have your own personal insurance?
Will it be the case that you will have to pay if you don't want it?
I don't mind paying for other IAA things such as the training etc etc
I'd say it would be the same case for most collectors

Insurance will be entirely optional. You might want to check if your personal insurance will cover airsoft - some policies don't.

Gizmodeon

Dar wrote: »

Insurance will be entirely optional. You might want to check if your personal insurance will cover airsoft - some policies don't.

Cheers Dar
I would have thought Airsoft was still too new to be included on Insurance,
most people still haven't heard of the sport.
Does anyone know what category it would be under if it was?

Rew

I have insurance for when im shooting, its 60 for one person or 100 for a couple. Covers me for death or accident as well as any accidents with others involved. Very handy.

AirsoftEire.com

Question:
Would there be any point in a player paying insurance, if they already have private health insurance?

Also, if only a handful of people opt to take out IAA insurance, and as a result the skirmish site's playing fee goes down as they get a better premium from their insurers for public liability, then people without insurance will benefit from those who have forked out for their own insurance.

Yet at the same time, they will still be covered by public liability will they not? Unless of course only those with IAA insurance got a discount for playing...

Steve

Rew

Personal insurance may be an easy way to get permission on private land same as in shooting, once the farmer knows your not going to claim off him then they generally happy to oblige.

Dar

AirsoftEire.com wrote: »

Would there be any point in a player paying insurance, if they already have private health insurance?

Yet at the same time, they will still be covered by public liability will they not? Unless of course only those with IAA insurance got a discount for playing...

Remember people, this isn't just health insurance. It's also personal liability insurance. If you injure or damage the property of a third-party while playing airsoft, it is you who are liable, not the site. The site insurance will not cover you.

Highly unlikely but slightly plausible example: Some eegit somehow manages to wander into the middle of an airsoft game. You accident hit him. He loses a tooth. YOU are liable for the damage, not the site. It is you he will sue, not the site. In this situation your sports insurance will cover the damages.

Non-airsoft example: You're off mountain-biking and accidently crash into someones car. You are liable for the damages. Once again, your sports insurance will cover the damage.

AirsoftEire.com

I see, well in that case it may be worth it to have yourself covered.
At the same time, you'd be suprised how much your house insurance covers, I once damaged a car on my mountain bike years and years ago and it was covered under the house insurance.

I guess people with health insurance will have to weigh up if its worth the money to cover themselves against other unlikely third-party circumstances.

Steve

CrazyRabbit

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Crazy: In Gatlings case a pre-existing condition would be a severe problem with his hip that has him on disability. I'll give you a minute to pull your foot out of your mouth ... done? ... good. Pre existing conditions could include things like previous injuries, chronic diseases etc and it remains to be seen as to whether the companies will still insure everyone if they have these persistent conditions.

You know I was joking, right?

Hivemind187

There is a little too much speculation about this.

Its very simple.

Your VHI covers you for whatever your VHI covers you for (doctors, dental, hospitals etc). It is bugger all use if you manage to seriously injure someone else or damage property (how you would do that airsofting is another question and not one that is suitable for this topic).

The Venue insurance covers the venue. You are actively engaged in a physical activity with an understood risk, aside from negligence you could not make a claim against a venue were you to be injured. The safety rules are adequate enough. Public liability is just that, it covers the general public should the "right to roamers" come bimbling into a war zone and protects the venue operator from things like "I crashed my car on your property".

It does not cover you should you break your neck.

This is why the IAA have been investigating insurance, for those of you who werent around at the start, it is something we have been doing since day one. It has taken us this long to get a straight answer out of anyone.

The insurance will cover you and only you for accidental damage or injury sustained while engaged in a sporting activity deemed to be equal or lesser risk to airsoft. It will cover you regardless of the site you play at, your age or whether you are in Ireland or anywhere else.

It has no bearing on the price sites charge and has nothing to do with any venue or retailer. It is solely for the purpose of making sure that should you cripple yourself while airsofting you will be looked after in terms of expenses.

I will repeat.

It has nothing to do with venues and does not affect their prices.

It is optional, no one is forcing anyone to buy insurance - it will not be a condition of membership to the IAA, it is a benefit we are hoping to broker on your behalf and for the good of the community.

Finally, the more people we have signing up for the insurance the greater the discount (hence the reason for trying to do it through the IAA). Large numbers of people could net us 10% discount or more.

ditpaintball

I voted 80-100 cause I think that a good policy is worth paying for i.e. if it covered having ''an accident abroad'' at a paintball tournament for example as most normal travel insurance will not cover extreme sports.

Evolute

I said 40-60 because I don't getpaid much a week:( But because these things take time and I will probably have a decent paying job by then so I probably wont have a problem with about 80 quid

Tigger

i voted €100 plus because i think being insured against some kids parent sueing me for walking on them when they were hiding in a ditch is invaluable

Puding

I went for €80-100 this is for the same reason as some other, good policy are expensive and you get what you pay for.