Clutch Question

firebug_guy

Hi Guys,

I have been 'driving' for the past few weeks. Well, I can get myself and work and back. Anyway, my question relates to the Clutch and perhaps my over dependance on it...

Say I am approaching a roundabout/junction etc, I will push in my clutch while applying the brake and coming down gears. Should I completely come off the clutch between each gear, as in: Brake a bit, Clutch, Down Gear, Off Clutch, Brake some more, Clutch, Down Gear, Off Clutch.

Also, when in traffic (and stopped), should you come out of gear when you have your handbrake on?

kinkstr

You should completely come off the clutch between gear changes, dont worry about making the car "jump " a bit, you'll get used to it in time.

firebug_guy wrote: »

Also, when in traffic (and stopped), should you come out of gear when you have your handbreak on?

My instructor always told me to take her out of gear when your at lights or stopped in a traffic jam. you dont wanna knock in to the car in front if your foot slips off the pedal, and if anything rams into the back of you while shes still in gear theres a good chance of it doing damage(apart from the back obviously:eek:)

IrishPhoenix

You don't have to cycle through the gears when approaching a roundabout/junction. Say you're in 4th, the thing to do is slow your speed and then drop into 2nd, you don't have to cycle through third at all.

About the stopping, I think you put it in neutral unless you're on a hill but I'm not certain about that.

prendy

You don't have to cycle through the gears when approaching a roundabout/junction. Say you're in 4th, the thing to do is slow your speed and then drop into 2nd, you don't have to cycle through third at all

to pass a test you do have to go through the gears and show the tester that you are in complete control of the car at all times.
pushing the clutch in you dont have control of the car so it should only be done to change gear then off then brake clutch change again!

chris85

prendy wrote: »

to pass a test you do have to go through the gears and show the tester that you are in complete control of the car at all times.
pushing the clutch in you dont have control of the car so it should only be done to change gear then off then brake clutch change again!

+1, and lets not debate on this issue again in yet another thread please people

fatal

I have the same problem with the clutch when I drive.Thanks for clearing things up folks

prodigal_son

I have a quick question about this.

Sometimes i dont come off the clutch completely before going into the next gear, ill be 3rds off it and press it back in and go into the next, usually when im dropping down.

I guess, im just wondering if it matters if the gear fully engages or not.

Also, hovering your foot over the clutch is ok? i only put my foot down at the side when im at cruising speed, but never rest my foot on the clutch.. Its never made my leg tired, but possibly wrong for test conditions?

MargeS

you have to keep clear of the clutch or you will fail for 'coasting'.
I agree with Prendy above.

Alkers

prendy wrote: »

to pass a test you do have to go through the gears and show the tester that you are in complete control of the car at all times.
pushing the clutch in you dont have control of the car so it should only be done to change gear then off then brake clutch change again!

You don't have to cycle down through the gears in order at all, it's perfectly fine to go from 4th to 2nd at a junction or whatever. You don't have to coast whatsoever to change from 4th to second so you're missing something here. At no period will you "coasting" with the clutch depressed.
If you're coming to a complete halt, 4th -> 3rd then stop in 3rd.
If you want to go 4th, 3rd, 2nd then you would have to completely declutch after each gear change alright.

Noopti

That's correct. You don't have to cycle down through all the gears. You can go from 4th to 2nd.

Alanstrainor

Simona1986 wrote: »

If you're coming to a complete halt, 4th -> 3rd then stop in 3rd.

Stopping in third? what the hell that's awful advise, whenever possible you should change down 4th 3rd 2nd stop. It's not good practice to change from 4th to second all the time. I can't see the point in not just cycling down through the gears for test purposes, i know people are going to argue that "fourth to second" is fine, but why not just cycle down through the gears i.e 4th 3rd 2nd, it's quite obvious which on of the two is preferable. And just to say that, both my instructors told me that 4th to 2nd is okay on occasion, but you should where possible cycle through the gears.

aniascor

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Stopping in third? what the hell that's awful advise, whenever possible you should change down 4th 3rd 2nd stop.

No it's not. It's perfectly fine to stop in third.

Alanstrainor

aniascor wrote: »

No it's not. It's perfectly fine to stop in third.

I dont think it's enough for you to just say it's fine without arguing your point. For one you'll have to drop the clutch earlier therefore reducing the braking provided by the engine, you'll have less control of your car should you need to move quickly if in third and coming to a stop. Stopping in third is awful advice and it would result in marks against you in a test, i ask you to try and think logically, and come up for a good reason to tell learner drivers that it's okay to stop in third, because i seriously doubt you'll come up with anything.

Alkers

It won't result in marks against you in a test, I only got two grade 1 faults and I stopped in third lots of times. Neither of these faults had anything to do with this. If you think about you actually spend less time with the clutch depressed by stopping in 3rd by making a gear change from 3rd to 2nd and then stopping in second. Plus the speed you would be engaging the clutch at in second would only be marginally slower than when you will be engaging it in third. At this point you will be almost stopped in any case.

javaboy

This argument has been done to death. I learned to downshift to 2nd one by one and avoid block gear changing and my dad's in the motor business 30+ years and this is what he recommends. But.... modern driving instruction seems to recommend 4th to 2nd or stopping in 3rd so that you keep 2 hands on the steering wheel and do less gear changes. Personally I'd rather have the comfort of knowing that I can accelerate from 2nd in the (admittedly unlikely) event that I suddenly needed to move to avoid some hazard.

And you won't get marked down for coming to a stop in 3rd gear in your test unless you're engaging the clutch so early that you're coasting.

WUSBDesign

Correct - plus, you keep your two hands on the steering wheel.

I can imagine a learner's hands and legs going "octopus-like" and resulting in something else bad.

Orange69

There are two ways to drive, test driving and real driving.

When doing your test you should cycle down through the gears and bring the car to a halt in 2nd. Then if you are going to be stopped for a minute or so put it into neutral and apply the handbrake.

When you are driving for a while after your test you will realize how retarded it was to drive in this manner but that seems to be what they want. In the real world you can switch down 2 or 3 gears at a time, coast to your hearts content, drive with one hand etc..

The rsa should publish what they consider is the correct way to drive, right down to gear changing so that people don't have to deal with these kinda questions.

javaboy

Orange69 wrote: »

There are two ways to drive, test driving and real driving.

When doing your test you should cycle down through the gears and bring the car to a halt in 2nd. Then if you are going to be stopped for a minute or so put it into neutral and apply the handbrake.

When you are driving for a while after your test you will realize how retarded it was to drive in this manner but that seems to be what they want. In the real world you can switch down 2 or 3 gears at a time, coast to your hearts content, drive with one hand etc..

The rsa should publish what they consider is the correct way to drive, right down to gear changing so that people don't have to deal with these kinda questions.

First of all for anybody taking their test soon, handbrake first then put it in neutral.

Secondly when coasting/driving with one hand you have less control over the vehicle. Plus if you're changing 3 gears at a time, that means at some stage you were in a very inappropriate speed for the gear you were in.

The RSA is in the process of sorting out driving instructor training and licensing so that the correct way to drive will be taught to new drivers in some kind of consistent fashion.

Orange69

javaboy wrote: »

First of all for anybody taking their test soon, handbrake first then put it in neutral.

Its been a while since i did my test so i had forgotten this vitally important detail

javaboy wrote: »

Secondly when coasting/driving with one hand you have less control over the vehicle. Plus if you're changing 3 gears at a time, that means at some stage you were in a very inappropriate speed for the gear you were in.

You must have a very awkward driving style if you stick those rules on an ongoing basis after your test. I would often, for instance, drop from 5 to 3 or 2 when coming into traffic or coming out of a roundabout, overtaking etc... And i tend to coast quite a bit.. I have a very smooth driving style...

javaboy wrote: »

The RSA is in the process of sorting out driving instructor training and licensing so that the correct way to drive will be taught to new drivers in some kind of consistent fashion.

I hope its very detailed and they publish it also..!

javaboy

My driving style is nice and smooth actually thanks and not awkard or retarded. The difference between your driving and mine is that I am in full control of the car with better ability to accelerate/manouevre because I am in the correct gear. If you are coasting you are not in full control of the vehicle.

j1979p

prodigal_son wrote: »

Also, hovering your foot over the clutch is ok? i only put my foot down at the side when im at cruising speed, but never rest my foot on the clutch.. Its never made my leg tired, but possibly wrong for test conditions?

I often hover over the pedal because my car is a fiesta and there is no space to put my foot anywhere else (to the side). Sometimes when I've reached 4th gear, I bend my leg and place my left foot closer to me although I don't like this because I can't react very quickly with the clutch.

Anyone else with this problem? I hear some cars have a special 'rest' pedal.

BlackWizard

I posted recently about this too. I've no special resting place but I was told to just put my foot on the floor.

I've been trying to do this, but as you said, reaction times are slow and I have to be very careful not to get my foot stuck under the pedal when lifting it up.

So I guess it's inevitable that I'll be marked down in my test for hovering over the clutch

slade_x

IrishPhoenix wrote: »

You don't have to cycle through the gears when approaching a roundabout/junction. Say you're in 4th, the thing to do is slow your speed and then drop into 2nd, you don't have to cycle through third at all.

About the stopping, I think you put it in neutral unless you're on a hill but I'm not certain about that.

During a test on approach in that situation i would drop to third well in advance, then right before the roundabout i'd drop to second.

aniascor

Alanstrainor wrote: »

I dont think it's enough for you to just say it's fine without arguing your point. For one you'll have to drop the clutch earlier therefore reducing the braking provided by the engine, you'll have less control of your car should you need to move quickly if in third and coming to a stop. Stopping in third is awful advice and it would result in marks against you in a test, i ask you to try and think logically, and come up for a good reason to tell learner drivers that it's okay to stop in third, because i seriously doubt you'll come up with anything.

When I was learning to drive, my instructors (from two different driving schools) always taught me to stop in third if you know you are coming to a complete stop (at a stop sign, or at traffic lights are just changing, or have only just changed) and stop in second if there is a possibility that you need to move off again before stopping completely (at a yield sign, approaching a roundabout, coming up to lights that have been red for a while).

If you are cycling down through the gears, you have to clutch a lot more to drop 4>3>2 and then stop, and you have your hands off the wheel for more time than if you drop 4>3 and then stop. I think you overestimate how much earlier you need to drop the clutch to stop in third. I would still brake only until i am a car length away from where i want to stop, and then press the clutch, and there are no problems with stopping smoothly.

I did this throughout my test, and didn't receive any marks against me for gear selection or clutch use. So I stand by my original assessment that it is perfectly fine to stop in third.

Alanstrainor

I stand corrected on that one, i do still see it as good practise but either way, sorry for arguing a wrong point.
Alan,

GreeBo

javaboy wrote: »

If you are coasting you are not in full control of the vehicle.

Why not?
You could be coasting in the correct gear.

Wishbone Ash

GreeBo wrote: »

Why not?
You could be coasting in the correct gear.

The clutch seperates the engine transmission from the drive wheels. The gear lever may be 'in' gear but the engine and wheels are seperate. Therefore, one can't be "coasting in the correct gear".

GreeBo

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The clutch seperates the engine transmission from the drive wheels. The gear lever may be 'in' gear but the engine and wheels are seperate. Therefore, one can't be "coasting in the correct gear".

well if we are going to get all pedantic about it
One can be coasting with the correct gear for the current speed selected.
Now that we are over that, I still dont see how it means you have any less control than having the clutch out. So you have to depress the clutch and accelerate versus "just" accelerate if you cant do that you shouldnt be driving (and probably cant as its required to move initially) *

*Unless you are on a downhill for all of my pedantic friends

Alanstrainor

GreeBo wrote: »

well if we are going to get all pedantic about it
One can be coasting with the correct gear for the current speed selected.
Now that we are over that,

I'm sorry but we're not over that. If you're in the correct gear then why coast? you're whole reasoning behind this is a bit childish to be honest. Here's just a few reasons why coasting is a bad idea:
* engine braking is eliminated
* vehicle speed downhill will increase quickly
* increased use of the footbrake can reduce its effectiveness
* steering response will be affected particularly on bends and corners
* it may be more difficult to select the appropriate gear when needed.
I just can't understand how coasting would make anyones life any easier, why bother, it'll result in grade 2 faults against you in your test, not to forget the points above. It's just plain silly to coast.

WUSBDesign

Correct. Plus you're unnecessarily tiring your left leg.

Celtic07

Coasting is popping up alot here can someone clear up when this would come aginst you in a test? just say your stopped at a roundabout you brake and clutch this considered coasting if you keep your foot on the clutch put it into 1st and takeoff? some one explain it please?

Alanstrainor

Celtic07 wrote: »

Coasting is popping up alot here can someone clear up when this would come aginst you in a test? just say your stopped at a roundabout you brake and clutch this considered coasting if you keep your foot on the clutch put it into 1st and takeoff? some one explain it please?

Coasting would be moving while unnecessarily putting your foot on the clutch, the situation you describe is not coasting, you break, clutch in, and stop, then while stopped go into first to move of, that's perfectly fine. A typical coasting situation would be, say, driving at 50km/h you start to slow down as there's a red light ahead, instead of cycling through the gears ie, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, clutch in and stop. You just put your foot on the clutch throughout the whole slowing process. I hope this helps.

bonkey

Alanstrainor wrote: »

A typical coasting situation would be, say, driving at 50km/h you start to slow down as there's a red light ahead, instead of cycling through the gears ie, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, clutch in and stop. You just put your foot on the clutch throughout the whole slowing process.

Just to clarify...this would be coasting only because of hte last bit (the clutch in throughout), as opposed to the suggestion that you didn't cycle through the gears.

Slowing to a stop at a red light, without downshifting, clutching as needed only at the end of the braking is not coasting.

Coasting is, basically, when you have the clutch depressed, unnecessarily, for any length of time, whilst moving. It doesn't really matter what gear you're in (or not in), or why you're doing it.

Celtic07

thanks for that lads have my test on monday so ****ting it. during the test when stopped on a small hill jus for a minute should you hold the car just with the clutch or put on the handbrake.also when popping the bonnet they will ask you for battery oil water and brake fluid and coolant yes/ what right answer for how to check your oil?

Alanstrainor

Celtic07 wrote: »

thanks for that lads have my test on monday so ****ting it. during the test when stopped on a small hill jus for a minute should you hold the car just with the clutch or put on the handbrake.also when popping the bonnet they will ask you for battery oil water and brake fluid and coolant yes/ what right answer for how to check your oil?

Dont hold the car with the clutch use the handbrake. Checking the oil would involve removing the dip stick, wiping it clean and reinsert it, and taking it out again to see the level.

Celtic07

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Dont hold the car with the clutch use the handbrake. Checking the oil would involve removing the dip stick, wiping it clean and reinsert it, and taking it out again to see the level.

thanks alot mate.cheers might they ask anything else about the engine? how to check the coolant? brake fluid? window washer fluid etc

pinkmonkey

So as you are coming down in gears the procedure is .........
brake.......press clutch and in to 4th when your at the right speed....release clutch keeping the brake pressed and so on all the way to 1st...

I guess my main point is do you keep breaking or do you release it after changing gear?

Alanstrainor

pinkmonkey wrote: »

So as you are coming down in gears the procedure is .........
brake.......press clutch and in to 4th when your at the right speed....release clutch keeping the brake pressed and so on all the way to 1st...

I guess my main point is do you keep breaking or do you release it after changing gear?

Keep your breaking continuous throughout, and you can block change from 4th to second if you don't want to have to cycle through all the gears.:pac:

Celtic07

so failed test this morning gutted..thought it went fine..observation on moving off killed me

Alanstrainor

Celtic07 wrote: »

so failed test this morning gutted..thought it went fine..observation on moving off killed me

Hard luck Celtic07, at least now you'll know what to expect the next time so you wont be as nervous, try and get another test asap!

Celtic07

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Hard luck Celtic07, at least now you'll know what to expect the next time so you wont be as nervous, try and get another test asap!

yeah im going to try im going to be in college though mon to friday come next week. so will only be able to do the test on saturdays or bank holidays mondays over the next few months. this be a big problem?

pinkmonkey

Sorry to hear that you failed Celtic07. Where did you do your test? I have mine tomorrow...any advice??

Celtic07

pinkmonkey wrote: »

Sorry to hear that you failed Celtic07. Where did you do your test? I have mine tomorrow...any advice??

sorry wasnt on boards till now. best of luck today thats if you havent done it already. let us know how it goes

RoseBlossom

Celtic07 wrote: »

yeah im going to try im going to be in college though mon to friday come next week. so will only be able to do the test on saturdays or bank holidays mondays over the next few months. this be a big problem?

It shouldn't be - just mark all the days of the week when you are unavailable (i.e. everything bar Saturday) when you are filling out your application form again. You might have to wait a bit longer for your date to come around but there's no difficulty on the testers' side.

Wishbone Ash

Celtic07 wrote: »

yeah im going to try im going to be in college though mon to friday come next week. so will only be able to do the test on saturdays or bank holidays mondays

Would you not consider the test important enough to sacrifice a half day off college?

Celtic07

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Would you not consider the test important enough to sacrifice a half day off college?

yes ive decided to do that so put down any day..am very confident would get test next time failed on something so stupid:rolleyes:..lets just say the college isnt like a normal students college but something like a driving test is important so would get time off

Wishbone Ash

Celtic07 wrote: »

lets just say the college isnt like a normal students college

Fair enough (but now I'm intrigued! ).

Good luck with the test.

Celtic07

do you usually get your test quicker when you apply after you failed than when you apply first time around?

Alanstrainor

Celtic07 wrote: »

do you usually get your test quicker when you apply after you failed than when you apply first time around?

Unfortunately you're treated like anyone else...but hopefully seeingthat waiting times seem to be falling it wont be too bad!

Celtic07

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Unfortunately you're treated like anyone else...but hopefully seeingthat waiting times seem to be falling it wont be too bad!

Ah should hopefully have it by the 30th june anyway i hope:rolleyes: