The teaching payscale - not capable of attracting the best people for the job?

Trotter

spurious wrote: »

The only real drawback with starting teaching late is the crazy length of the salary scale. It takes 22 years to reach the top of it.

While I'm enjoying the job, it is a bit depressing to see the Gardaí, Nurses, Prison Officers, and the rest of the world clocking up overtime and to realise that its 1100 a fortnight ish and end of story for me.

The bank says "thanks very much Trotter" and grabs most of that for the mortgage. SO.. Minister.. You want more male teachers? Have a look at the average wage for a 26 year old Prison Officer, Garda, Engineer, Architect, etc and tell me that you'll attract the finest male role models with that joke of a payscale.

With the recent push on attracting male graduates into the profession, I think the Minister was being very crafty by saying how great the "lifestyle" is.

And to the queue of "ah yes but you're day is shorter" fans, I wouldnt bother. I'm doing 40 hours a week at least like anyone else. If she wants a great lifestyle in teaching then allocate us money for the preparation and paperwork time.

/Rant ends..

DublinDilbert

Trotter wrote: »

While I'm enjoying the job, it is a bit depressing to see the Gardaí, Nurses, Prison Officers, and the rest of the world clocking up overtime and to realise that its 1100 a fortnight ish and end of story for me.

The bank says "thanks very much Trotter" and grabs most of that for the mortgage. SO.. Minister.. You want more male teachers? Have a look at the average wage for a 26 year old Prison Officer, Garda, Engineer, Architect, etc and tell me that you'll attract the finest male role models with that joke of a payscale.

With the recent push on attracting male graduates into the profession, I think the Minister was being very crafty by saying how great the "lifestyle" is.

And to the queue of "ah yes but you're day is shorter" fans, I wouldnt bother. I'm doing 40 hours a week at least like anyone else. If she wants a great lifestyle in teaching then allocate us money for the preparation and paperwork time.

/Rant ends..

There is often the argument that if you don't pay people enough you won't get a high enough caliber of people into the job, this is always being said about the public sector TD's ect... So if Bertie and the Lads were on 10% less money would they go do something else?? not a chance, for example what could Bertie do? he claims to be an accountant, but does not hold any qualifications!!!

I'm afraid no job pay's enough these days, mainly cause our inflation has been out of control for years now.... but irish people don't care about inflation (they more care about the trappings of wealth), Germany people are paranoid about it, as they see it as eroding their standard of living... No one in the public or private sector is going to get raises similar to those seen in the last few years.

People should do a job cause they like doing it, never cause of the money. When you like doing something, you'll do it all day. People should change career 4 times in their working life (aprox), anyone doing the same job for 40 years is bound to get pissed off. In ireland in the past if you got a job you held on to it. Just because a person is good at one thing, does not mean they aren't good at others....

I've no doubt your doing 40 hours work, between preparation ect, but you have to compare your pay to the basic pay of a garda or a nurse (before shift allowance, as you don't work shift)..... I would guess that a teacher is better payed than the basic of a garda / nurse. Or even compare your pay to professions in the private sector, eg engineers / accountants... I'm an engineer, and if you can find work, you'll never get paid over time and quite often you'll be expected to not take holidays ect....

Its all swings and round abouts in any job, plumbers make lots of money, but i wouldn't fancy looking down some one elses toilet every day. Prison officers make good money, but look at where they've to work. Garda's can make ok money too, but they are out in all weather, in the lashing rain, taking abuse from drukin ejits....

The problem isn't how little you feel you make, its how much everything costs here.... trust me, i've lived away in very well run and organised countries where an airline pilot would live beside a factory worker...

Black Swan

Pay is not the only reason grand teachers are drawn to the profession, but if we truly valued education (instead of giving it lip service), we would play them competitve salaries and benefits.

Rosita

DublinDilbert wrote: »

So if Bertie and the Lads were on 10% less money would they go do something else?? not a chance, for example what could Bertie do? he claims to be an accountant, but does not hold any qualifications!!!

This is over-simplifying it more than a bit.

The fact that someone with no qualifications (supposedly) can be Taoiseach does not suggest that the job is especially well paid. In fact it might be cited to make the opposite argument. Why is it that this job does not attract someone highly educated? Perhaps if enough was paid we might have some guy with loads of little degrees which might make a huge difference. Having Bertie Ahern over a barrel because he is qualified for nothing else does not justify the Taoiseach's salary either way.

Similarly for teachers, being able to point out to a bank manager that you don't have to stick your head down a toilet during the course of your work does little for your credibility in the financial stakes I would say. What I would call incidental 'soft benefits' in the teaching profession (holidays, relatively comfortable working conditions) does not compensate for inadequate pay.

Trotter

Just to clear up any misunderstanding, I gave up a 40k+ job to become a 30k+ teacher, so my motives are purely job satisfaction related.

What I think is very wrong is for those that set the wages is to take this vocation as a reason to decide they'll work for less.

DublinDilbert wrote: »

taking abuse from drukin ejits....

I've dealt with that too while I was a secondary teacher.. and they weren't parents either.

TheDriver

I really hate hearing that our pension is a reason not to pay us more now! And we all work crazy hours in teaching and put up with a lot of crap. Only thing I suppose is there is room for grinds and other self employment to boost up the wages. Our base is definitely more than nurses etc but no overtime or any leeway at all.

DublinDilbert

Rosita wrote: »

This is over-simplifying it more than a bit.

The fact that someone with no qualifications (supposedly) can be Taoiseach does not suggest that the job is especially well paid. In fact it might be cited to make the opposite argument. Why is it that this job does not attract someone highly educated? Perhaps if enough was paid we might have some guy with loads of little degrees which might make a huge difference. Having Bertie Ahern over a barrel because he is qualified for nothing else does not justify the Taoiseach's salary either way.

Similarly for teachers, being able to point out to a bank manager that you don't have to stick your head down a toilet during the course of your work does little for your credibility in the financial stakes I would say. What I would call incidental 'soft benefits' in the teaching profession (holidays, relatively comfortable working conditions) does not compensate for inadequate pay.

Sorry i couldn't resist having a go at poor aul bertie...

He did try give himself a pay rise greater than what most teachers make per year for the first 5 -> 8 years...

Tom Dunne

Playing Devil's Advocate here for a moment, would higher wages necessarily attract the best?

I am in the same situation with regards lecturing - I would have to take a 15k wage drop if I went lecturing full time. I would do it in a heartbeat, but that discussion is for another day.

Looking at some of the lecturers I have worked with, I am sad to say a proportion of them are in it for the "handy number". They are far from able to deliver a class, let alone inspire students. Another few I am aware of are "serious" academics, but again, they wouldn't be able to deliver a pizza, never mind a class.

So, my point is, I am not so sure higher wages would attract "better" teachers. I would wager current teachers, such as yourself, Trotter, are in it for the love of the job and are arguably better teachers than those who may be lured by higher wages alone.

Trotter

Thanks Tom Dunne, the cheque for the kind comment I asked for is in the post.

I think what I should have called this thread was... "Look at the tool with a vocation working for half of what his private sector butty earns!".. but clearly that wouldnt be nice.

The powers that be know only too well that the "anti teacher" sentiment is strong and well in Ireland and if we really pushed hard for proper money, i.e. breaking out of the benchmarking system altogether so our pay wouldnt be compared or tied to nurses or gardaí, then the government would support the "sure havent they great holidays" gang.

I mean we have to pay to do professional development courses during the summer!

Such rubbish.

/ rant ends.
/ again.