Islam for all

DinoBot

Hi,

I wanted to ask how many of the Muslims on this forum think that the world would be a better place if Islam was practiced worldwide ?

I ask because I posed this question to some friends of mine and I was surprised by the answer. Most said no (they are Muslims by the way)

Now, I would have thought that being Muslims you would want the Islamic way of life to be implemented everywhere but not so. when I asked them why not they said they felt life would be too restrictive.

So, was that just them ? How do others feel ?

wes

No. There would still be the same pointless wars etc.

Also, if everyone was the same, I think the world would lose a lot of its diversity.

DinoBot

wes wrote: »

No. There would still be the same pointless wars etc.

Also, if everyone was the same, I think the world would lose a lot of its diversity.

So you are happy that some people should remain non-believers and go to hell ???? .....for the sake of diversity.

wes

DinoBot wrote: »

So you are happy that some people should remain non-believers and go to hell ???? .....for the sake of diversity.

I never said anyone was going to hell.

DinoBot

wes wrote: »

I never said anyone was going to hell.

Well, my understanding is that, according to Islam, the best way to get to heaven is to follow Islam. So, not to follow it would then not lead to heaven.
I know its a bit simplistic.

Why do you think Islam is not for the whole world then ?

wes

DinoBot wrote: »

Well, my understanding is that, according to Islam, the best way to get to heaven is to follow Islam. So, not to follow it would then not lead to heaven.
I know its a bit simplistic.

Not necessarily. God is very forgiving.

DinoBot wrote: »

Why do you think Islam is not for the whole world then ?

Well, it doesn't seem to be for some people. I see no reason to force a belief system, that some people don't want to be apart of, upon them.

joseph brand

Is this thread a joke?

Am I missing something here. The whole world looking like Palestinian refugee camp?

DinoBot

wes wrote: »

Not necessarily. God is very forgiving.



Well, it doesn't seem to be for some people. I see no reason to force a belief system, that some people don't want to be apart of, upon them.

I get that.
I suppose Im just surprised that some people on the one hand would promote a religion and say it to be the truth and from god. Then on the other hand say they would not like to see everybody embrace it.
It leaves me with the thought that they are not really sincere about the whole thing.

I hate smoking, I think it leads to death. I would like the whole world to stop smoking, no exceptions. I'm not talking about forcing, I'm taking about free choice. I would like the people to make the choice to give up.
I cant see why I would want someone to smoke. So in the same way, if I was Muslim I think I would want everyone to be Muslim. Lead to a better life ??

wes

DinoBot wrote: »

I get that.
I suppose Im just surprised that some people on the one hand would promote a religion and say it to be the truth and from god. Then on the other hand say they would not like to see everybody embrace it.
It leaves me with the thought that they are not really sincere about the whole thing.

I hate smoking, I think it leads to death. I would like the whole world to stop smoking, no exceptions. I'm not talking about forcing, I'm taking about free choice. I would like the people to make the choice to give up.
I cant see why I would want someone to smoke. So in the same way, if I was Muslim I think I would want everyone to be Muslim. Lead to a better life ??

The only way to do what your suggesting would be to force people. I see no other way it could be achieved personally. If people want to be Muslim great, good for them.

wes

joseph brand wrote: »

Is this thread a joke?

Am I missing something here. The whole world looking like Palestinian refugee camp?

The reasons for the Palestinians being in refugee camps is due to ethnic cleansing. So there plight isn't particularly funny.

There are also Christian (even some Atheists as well) Palestinians who driven from there homes btw.

Flying

wes wrote: »

The reasons for the Palestinians being in refugee camps is due to ethnic cleansing. So there plight isn't particularly funny.

There are also Christian (even some Atheists as well) Palestinians who driven from there homes btw.

Aw belt up with you rethoric, I have been in these supposed camps and they are far from that, so ease up with the BS.

wes

Flying wrote: »

Aw belt up with you rethoric, I have been in these supposed camps and they are far from that, so ease up with the BS.

Perhaps you should ease up with your BS, because thats what it clearly is. Amazing you trying to belittle any entire peoples plight, especially days after the jail break out of Gaza, where there are plenty of refugees as well.

Great try with your BS propoganda.

I was very simply replying to someone else, who raised the point about the whole world being a Palestinian refugee camp (in relation to the topic of the thread). I was pointing out the situation with the Palestinians was a unique one. Strangely you have completely ignored the current topic and yet accuse me of BS. Then you try and say that the refugee camps aren't actually refugee camps and you accuse me of BS. Really your entire comment is a very unfunny racist little joke, or maybe you actually believe the crap your spouting, I don't know maybe a little of both.

Hobbes

Bring it back on topic. You knows the drill.

Flying

wes wrote: »

Perhaps you should ease up with your BS, because thats what it clearly is. Amazing you trying to belittle any entire peoples plight, especially days after the jail break out of Gaza, where there are plenty of refugees as well.

Great try with your BS propoganda.

I was very simply replying to someone else, who raised the point about the whole world being a Palestinian refugee camp (in relation to the topic of the thread). I was pointing out the situation with the Palestinians was a unique one. Strangely you have completely ignored the current topic and yet accuse me of BS. Then you try and say that the refugee camps aren't actually refugee camps and you accuse me of BS. Really your entire comment is a very unfunny racist little joke, or maybe you actually believe the crap your spouting, I don't know maybe a little of both.

Yawn, I smell Pallywood !

AckwelFoley

Would the world be a better place if we were all muslims?

lol, no.


The world would be a better place without all religion, it would remove 1 more reason for people to kill each other.

wes

Flying wrote: »

Yawn, I smell Pallywood !

So this has what to do with the topic at hand? You seem to have nothing intelligent to add to the topic, at hand. I think that tells us a lot, doesn't it?

So anyway back to the actual topic.

Even if we dumped religion, I don't think we would see much difference, when it comes to conflict. Humans have always been good with coming up with reasons to kill one another.

denashpot

silly thread. they dont want us all to be islamic. most of them want us (the infidels) dead. simple as.

AckwelFoley

denashpot wrote: »

silly thread. they dont want us all to be islamic. most of them want us (the infidels) dead. simple as.

No they dont, and i dont think for one second "Mr Joe Soap Muslim" considers me or you an infidel

You're reading too much sh1tty tabloid junk, these newsrags take what one fundamentalist says and tar all muslims with it

DinoBot

snyper wrote: »

Would the world be a better place if we were all muslims?

lol, no.


The world would be a better place without all religion, it would remove 1 more reason for people to kill each other.

HI,

My question was aimed at the Muslims on the thread. I was asking the question after discussions I had with Muslim friends. I was confused that on the one hand they felt Islam was the final message for all mankind and was the best way to live your life but on the other they would not like to see it implemented worldwide.

I was not interested in the actual implementation of Islam worldwide, more of the ides of it.

Like if (for some reason) the entire world woke up this morning and said "hey, I'm going to be Muslim :-) ...... Would the world be better place ?

Strange thing is most Muslims so far have said no

snyper wrote: »

No they dont, and i dont think for one second "Mr Joe Soap Muslim" considers me or you an infidel

snyper, In answer, from wikipedia

An infidel (literally "one without faith") is an English word meaning "one who doubts or rejects central tenets of a religion or has no religious beliefs", especially in reference to Christianity or Islam

So Id say from that definition 100% of "Mr Joe Soap Muslim" would consider non Muslims to be infidels. Any other meaning you put on it is yours however. Although the more common term used is kafir.

helios

DinoBot wrote: »

Well, my understanding is that, according to Islam, the best way to get to heaven is to follow Islam. So, not to follow it would then not lead to heaven.
I know its a bit simplistic.

Why do you think Islam is not for the whole world then ?

Have you not considered that some religions have conflicting points of view? If I don't believe in a particular religion, then I'm not bound by its rules. Jews don't believe in Hell, so if I were Jewish I wouldn't have to worry about going to Hell. Why would I go to the Muslim Hell if I'm not Muslim??

DinoBot

helios wrote: »

Have you not considered that some religions have conflicting points of view?

What!!! other religions conflict with each other :eek::eek:



Perhaps my question is one which cannot be answered. What religion are you btw ?

helios

DinoBot wrote: »

Perhaps my question is one which cannot be answered. What religion are you btw ?

Not Islamic, so I don't have to worry about being judged by Islam. Really though, why would I go to Islamic Hell if I don't follow Islam?

DinoBot

helios wrote: »

Not Islamic, so I don't have to worry about being judged by Islam. Really though, why would I go to Islamic Hell if I don't follow Islam?

But in answer to your question, if Islam is true, ie. god exists (in the islamic context) it will not matter what religion you are, you will be judged by god. I would say the same applies for all religions, no ?

helios

DinoBot wrote: »

But in answer to your question, if Islam is true, ie. god exists (in the islamic context) it will not matter what religion you are, you will be judged by god. I would say the same applies for all religions, no ?

So we will all be judged by different God's? Some or more lenient than others, so whose decision would prevail?

egan007

He he funny religious people discussing which one would be better.

helios

egan007 wrote: »

He he funny religious people discussing which one would be better.

I'm just trying to figure out why I'm going to be judged by a God I don't believe in... It's like a bad episode of Stargate...

AckwelFoley

Regardless of what it says i dont believe that Muslims think we non muslims are infidels, everything in the holy book is open to interpretion, and i dont think or accept that the entire Islamic faith think snyper is an Infidel.

Hobbes

Welcome to the new people to the forum. I hope everyone has read the charter and understands it so I don't have to keep giving out warnings/bans.

DinoBot

snyper wrote: »

Regardless of what it says i dont believe that Muslims think we non muslims are infidels, everything in the holy book is open to interpretion, and i dont think or accept that the entire Islamic faith think snyper is an Infidel.

Okay, so my original question was way lost in this thread :rolleyes:

Snyper you infidel !!

Karlusss

From the very passing and completely conversational familiarity I have with Islam and Islamic eschatology and all that stuff, the way I picked it up was:

Muslims want everyone to be Muslims, because Islam is obedience to God, and good Muslims don't tolerate disobedience to God. There are allowances for "people of the book" I think as well, but nobody can properly be saved without submitting to Islam. I think?

This is pretty much the same as old school Christianity, as far as I can tell.

the_new_mr

Woah!! Don't know how I missed this thread before!

Anyway, for my 2 cents, I think the world would be a better place if true Islam was practiced worldwide.

There you go, my hypothetical answer to your hypothetical question.

I don't think it's ever going to happen though. And, of course, everyone is free to believe what they want to believe. Thought I'd better throw that in there before I get belted with the auld "You want to force everyone to be Islamics!" nonsense

denashpot wrote:

silly thread. they dont want us all to be islamic. most of them want us (the infidels) dead. simple as.

I'm quite shocked and amazed that someone would be so gullible to believe that. You need to watch this.

DinoBot

the_new_mr wrote: »

Woah!! Don't know how I missed this thread before!

Anyway, for my 2 cents, I think the world would be a better place if true Islam was practiced worldwide.

There you go, my hypothetical answer to your hypothetical question.

I don't think it's ever going to happen though. And, of course, everyone is free to believe what they want to believe. Thought I'd better throw that in there before I get belted with the auld "You want to force everyone to be Islamics!" nonsense

I'm quite shocked and amazed that someone would be so gullible to believe that. You need to watch this.

Ah, at least someone understood my post

So, whats your view on why some Muslims say the opposite ? This point really confuses me. It makes me think they don't really view their belief as being true.

the_new_mr

I don't think it's that actually. The thing you find with a vast majority of Muslims is that they are completely sure about their beliefs.

I think it's probably more to do with what you said your Muslim friends said. That they think it would make the world too restrictive.

I don't think it's that Muslims want to have nudity in their films. I think it's that people like your friends are worried that if everyone was a Muslim, we'd have a taliban style world and that's why I was careful to use the phrase "true Islam" in my previous post.

DinoBot

the_new_mr wrote: »

I don't think it's that actually. The thing you find with a vast majority of Muslims is that they are completely sure about their beliefs.

I think it's probably more to do with what you said your Muslim friends said. That they think it would make the world too restrictive.

I don't think it's that Muslims want to have nudity in their films. I think it's that people like your friends are worried that if everyone was a Muslim, we'd have a taliban style world and that's why I was careful to use the phrase "true Islam" in my previous post.

Yeah, but does that not show that even Muslims are afraid of the mindset that Islam produces. Because even when Ive asked the question and include the phrase "true Islam", to eliminate this taliban type world, they still say no

the_new_mr

I don't think it shows that.

I guess for the answer to your question, you'd have to ask your Muslim friends I can't answer for them. I can only give you my answer.

blackthorn

Now MR, you wouldn't find yourself in such a predicament of being unable to answer a simple question of what someone you never met is thinking if you didn't insist on detaching yourself from the hive mind. :rolleyes:

the_new_mr

I was sent another invitation to the hive mind in the mail there the other day even though I had recently gone to the trouble of phoning the head queen bee office and requesting that I be moved from their mailing list. Some people never listen

Black Swan

Which Islam?

• Sunni (Ash'ari or Maturidiyyah or Athariyyah)?
• Shi'a (Twelvers or Ismailis or Zaidi)?
• Sufism?
• Ahmadiyya (Qadiani or Lahore)?
• Or other sects or traditions not mentioned?

the_new_mr

Islam is not as divided as you think.

I prefer to just call myself Muslim but if you had to classify me, I'd be Sunni and I've never even heard of Ash'ari or Maturidiyyah or Athariyyah. That's how insignificant the differences must be if I've spent my whole life without ever hearing about them. Either that or they must be a very minority group.

You can't consider Sufism to be a separate sect of Islam. It's more a way of thinking really.

And as for Ahmadiyya, anyone who examines the principles that their "sect" is based upon will find that is has no base. It's a very minority sect.

Besides, unlike the differences between sects of other religions, the differences between the different sects of Islam have usually very little to do with any differences in the core belief system. That is that "There is no god but God and Mohamed is His messenger".

merrionsq

the_new_mr wrote: »

Islam is not as divided as you think.

Why didn't someone explain that to the Shia and Sunnis who've been killing each other?

wes

merrionsq wrote: »

Why didn't someone explain that to the Shia and Sunnis who've been killing each other?

Look at what Saddam regime did to the Shia, a lot of the violence has a lot to do with that.