How to pick SnG levels?

Fobia

Hey guys, I'm still learning this game (well aren't we all) but am starting to hit a stage where I seem to be able to make money fairly consistantly. However, I'm having a hard time figuring out what level to play at.
I only play 6-player SnG's, simply because I have a very short attention span so the endless cash games don't suit me, and I prefer 6 handed because I find it much easier to figure out everyone on the table with everyone playing more hands.

I left playing online a few months ago as I was simply losing, I'd be playing well, making profit, then get a small streak of badbeats and end up tilting off all my money, chasing losses etc until the BR I'd built up was gone again. Then I went and did more traveling (I'm on a year off from education currently) and feel alot more calm now, so a few weeks ago I went back on my party account and saw that I still had $2 dollars left. Long story short, through lots of grinding and $3 sng's I built it back up again and started moving up levels.

Right now, I have $350 in my account but I'm not sure whether I should be playing $11 sng's or $22 ones. I've just started trying the $22s and am finding them just as easy as the $11s, but the thing is I only play 1 table at once (I concentrate a alot in the later stages so can't handle it when I get far in more than one game at once), so am worried playing $22s is too risky with my current BR.

My aim is to play 7 hours or so a day 5 days a week and make about 350-400 a week or so; I need to save money so that I can travel for 2 months straight this Summer. The concentration required for that long doesn't bother me as I used to play a computer game for that long/day at a fairly high level (quakeworld if anyone knows it!), so grinding is fine.

So, would any of you have an advice on how to do this? Try $22's for a while? Stick to $11s? Maybe try 2-tabling $6's?

Thanks in advance!

nicnicnic

you should try upping the amount of tables you play, you will be amazed how quickly you adapt to it and in no time you'll be wondering how you ever just played one

Fobia

Hi nicnicnic, I read your blog and found your q&a very interesting. Thanks for the tip, I'll try 2 tabling $11's later to start and see how that goes.

Anyone else?

SuperHans

The stakes that you can play depend on your risk appetite, but I think that the 22s are too high for your current bankroll. As nicnicnic mentioned, try multitabling the 11s. Start off with two and build up from there. Also if you are trying to earn money and not just playing for fun consider moving to a site that gives you something back. As far as I know the only form of reward players get on Party now are very stingy reload bonii.
Moving site may dramatically improve your winrate without an actual increase in your skill level.
You may think that playing the 11s are fairly safe as you say that you are winning consistently, but be warned that you may just be running well, and even if you are a winning player at those stakes variance could halve your current bankroll in no time.
That being said, consider moving down if you are running badly, unless you are willing to reload if you go broke. And if you are willing to reload and you want to take a bit more of a risk, by all means go for the 22s.

RasTa

Fobia wrote: »

My aim is to play 7 hours or so a day 5 days a week and make about 350-400 a week or so

Thanks in advance!

To be honest, it would be much easier and less stressful to just get a job and play the stt's part time and heavy on the weekend.

Rb

Any of the serious STT players know how bad downswings can be with them, it's not unheard of to go 10+ without placing etc.

I'd say stick with the $11s til you're past $600 or so, then move up to $22s.

Also, keep adding tables. Try two and then go up. Read the 2+2 stt forum religiously too.

As Rasta said, get a job and play them part-time until you're at a level where making good money is easier than grinding out hours upon hours of $11 sngs for $350 a week. That's $10 per hour, €6.70 which is hardly worth it and with all that grinding for such a small profit

The Improver

The reason most people start with sngs is because they offer a fun and quick way to build your bankroll against a usually weak pool of opponents. They can be very profitable if you employ the right strategy, especially at lower stakes. As your rise up the stakes and come towards the end of the levels sites offer ($500s/1ks) they become alot harder to beat and alot of people are just multitabling them to beat the rake. Although i hear some betfair affilates are offering a pretty sick propping deal where you can get 110% rb as long as you are starting up new games. People used to be able to 12 table the 200$s on party maintaing a 20% roi but those days are gone. the pool of players at the higher stake sngs are of a really good quality now so they arent as profitable anymore. There are some very good players who can maintain high Rois at these stakes but most people cant and thats why people move to cash because playing 1knl cash will be far more profitable then playing 1ksngs, its just that you can get to the 1k sngs faster if you put the same amount of work into your game.

re bankroll mangement for sngs i think 40bis is around the right amount. 20bis is a very small number and if your multi tabling,say 4 tables, and dont cash in 4sngs then your down to 16bis and will have to step down right way which can be frustrating.40bis will give you that extra bit of leeway. i reccomend moving up when you have 40bis at the next level up and moving down if you drop below 40bi at whatever level your playing at.

this thread on two plus two has a great collection of some of the better posts from the STT forum there
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...Number=1918735

flopturnriver has some good aricles on sngs, heres a link to one, you should be able to find the rest from here http://www.flopturnriver.com/Sit-n-G...egy-Guide.html

this site has a really good downloadble heads up trainer programme which should help you define pushing and calling ranges in the head up stages of sit and gos.
http://www.sngegt.com/

this link has a collection of "curtains" (sick good sng player) articles on sngs
http://www.gogol.co.uk/curtains/

this pocket fives link has a basic intro to sngs
http://www.pocketfives.com/BCA6D444-...0D4AC7658.aspx
this link to pocketfives has some advice on sng bubble play/ICM http://www.pocketfives.com/D91C4382-...4BECA917C.aspx

heres a link to an ICM calculator although i think theres one at sngegt

http://www.chillin411.com/icmcalc.php

also ive heard good things about www.sngicons.com as a training site for sngs but havnt tried it. WPT champ jonathan little is chief instructor there and hes pretty sick good at sngs. If you are a cardrunners member watch actionjeffs sng vids. they are a must. Id join up for cardrunners just to watch these vids actually.

I saved this off another post,some very good reading in it.

Fobia

rb_ie: Sorry for the confusion - I meant 350-400 *euro* a week! I was making 300 a week in dunnes so even that would be fine - anything to avoid that sorta thing!

RasTa: as I said the stress doesn't bother me. I enjoy playing poker and from my gaming background I am very much used to constant high pressure situations. You're right in that it's certainly easier in that it's guaranteed, but hey - I'm young! Also if I do succeed it's only til June - I'll be going to college in September.

Thanks for the tips guys, I think multi tabling is probably wise alright - if I could play 4 $6's instead of 1 $22 at a time it'd certainly lead to less variance, assuming I can give as much concentration to all.

Still open to suggestions!

RasTa

Well if your going for it, all the best. Don't play the Party SNG's if they still charge $1 on the $6 games as the rake is too high. Just start at the very minimum 2 tabling and move to 3 and 4 etc. If you have a short attention span then you also might be better suited to the 6max turbos. Pokerstars offer a better variety on these with 6/9/18/45/180 player games. Just make sure you have 30buy ins for the level you start at and adjust accordingly.

I'm sure DVDFAN will be along to post his wisdom on this topic soon.

sickpuppy

I know the ? is about sng levels however have you got rakeback?
If you going to be moving up levels and paying a lot of rake makes sense to get some back.
Also get the dole 200 euro a week for doing nothing meaning hopefully if you are tight with money you dont have to touch your bankroll.
Certain sites offer monthly bonuses as well as rakeback find one which suits and where you can beat the games.
25 to 40 buy ins should be plenty to stop you going bust good luck.

Fobia

Sickpuppy: I haven't paid enough tax to go on the dole I think, besides, aren't you meant to be looking for a job to be on that?

I just tried 2-tabling $11 dollars after losing 3 $22's in a row (2 bad beats and the third was just a bad call by me - I think I need to take longer breaks after losses). I won both of them but it was very tricky as they both got to the headsup stage at once. But I guess this ability comes with time, along with being able to analyze opponents with lots going on at once - I was basically relying on maths in these.

I should definitely look into another site for rakeback, perhaps GJP, I just hope they're as easy at the $11 level as party!

RoundTower

you should know this about bankroll management:

if you are bankrolled to play 1 $22 at a time that doesn't mean you are bankrolled to play 4 $6 SNGs at a time, it means you are bankrolled to play 4 $22s.

ArmaniJeanss

Fobia wrote: »

I won both of them but it was very tricky as they both got to the headsup stage at once.

After a while you'll get an idea of how long a gap to leave between the starting of games, where I'm playing the blind levels are 8 minutes so I usually leave ~10 minutes between starting each SNG. This helps stops games getting to the business end at the same time.

P.S. Great links TheImprover.

HoLLLLLaments

Fobia wrote: »

Right now, I have $350 in my account but I'm not sure whether I should be playing $11 sng's or $22 ones. I've just started trying the $22s and am finding them just as easy as the $11s, but the thing is I only play 1 table at once (I concentrate a alot in the later stages so can't handle it when I get far in more than one game at once), so am worried playing $22s is too risky with my current BR.

Play the 11$s till you have around 35-45 bis at 22$s. Since your 1 tabling taking shots around 35 bis would be fine as long as you only dont drop below 35 bis. If you do step back down.

Fobia wrote: »

My aim is to play 7 hours or so a day 5 days a week and make about 350-400 a week or so; I need to save money so that I can travel for 2 months straight this Summer. The concentration required for that long doesn't bother me as I used to play a computer game for that long/day at a fairly high level (quakeworld if anyone knows it!), so grinding is fine.

if you want to maximise your profit id really try and adopt a standard optimal strategy and focus on multi tabling. you can play pretty mechanically at these stakes so extra tables adds a huge profit. Id aim to be 8 tabling by march 4 tabling at the minium. With 8 tables you might lose a little in your avg ROI but your overall profit would nullify it.

Is this going to be your job now? 1 tabling 11$ sngs for 7 hours a day for a living is madness. You could easily pull 400$ out of these games playing 7 hours a day but i fear the loss of sanity would make it worthless.

Focus on stacking up tables and employing safe bankroll management

Looking at the way you talk about poker and judging your knowledge of the game from your posts I dont think its a very good idea for you to try and become a professional poker player.


edit: play somewhere with rakeback and try and get a big monitor.

phantom_lord

how come you don't post in the hh section?

HoLLLLLaments

me?

Requiem4adream

HoLLLLLaments wrote: »

Play the 11$s till you have around 35-45 bis at 22$s. Since your 1 tabling taking shots around 35 bis would be fine as long as you only dont drop below 35 bis. If you do step back down.



if you want to maximise your profit id really try and adopt a standard optimal strategy and focus on multi tabling. you can play pretty mechanically at these stakes so extra tables adds a huge profit. Id aim to be 8 tabling by march 4 tabling at the minium. With 8 tables you might lose a little in your avg ROI but your overall profit would nullify it.

Is this going to be your job now? 1 tabling 11$ sngs for 7 hours a day for a living is madness. You could easily pull 400$ out of these games playing 7 hours a day but i fear the loss of sanity would make it worthless.

Focus on stacking up tables and employing safe bankroll management

Looking at the way you talk about poker and judging your knowledge of the game from your posts I dont think its a very good idea for you to try and become a professional poker player.


edit: play somewhere with rakeback and try and get a big monitor.

I think advising a relative newcomer to multi 8 tables is very poor advice. Harmful even. It might be optimal but it's very difficult for most people to adapt their game from a 1-3 table standard to 4-8 tables and i think ROI would suffer collossally for a considerable period of time.

As for loss of sanity, one man's meat is another man's poison. Working as a postman would drive me insane but another person might like the fresh air. It's up to him whether it's worth it or not.

Finally, and this isn't being pedantic, but the situation he describes is most definitely not = going pro. Playing sng's every day with the view to go travelling hardly describes pro does it?

Your other advice on bankroll/monitor/rakeback is v good.

*What nationality are you?

HoLLLLLaments

"I think advising a relative newcomer to multi 8 tables is very poor advice. Harmful even. It might be optimal but it's very difficult for most people to adapt their game from a 1-3 table standard to 4-8 tables and i think ROI would suffer collossally for a considerable period of time."

I obviously didnt mean for him to jump into 8 tabling. I told him to work towards it so in one month 8 tabling would be his goal 4 tabling minimum. Moving from 2 tables to 4 tables in 4 weeks while playing 7 hours a day is not a tough task. Like i said no one should jump from 1 tabling to 8 tabling.

"Finally, and this isn't being pedantic, but the situation he describes is most definitely not = going pro. Playing sng's every day with the view to go travelling hardly describes pro does it?"


playing for 7 hours a day does not leave much time for other activitys. If this is going to be is main source of income what do you call it if not going pro? This isnt some college student playing for a few hours every night after doing course work to have a bit of cash for socialising. Hes talking about giving up his job in dunnes to play poker full time. maybe you think being a professional poker player is balling it up at all the high stakes mtt spots. If your not a student and your main source of income is from poker winnings it makes you a professional poker player.

edit: if you disagree id like to here your definiton of a professional poker player

irish

phantom_lord

HoLLLLLaments wrote: »

me?

yup.

Requiem4adream

HoLLLLLaments wrote: »

playing for 7 hours a day does not leave much time for other activitys. If this is going to be is main source of income what do you call it if not going pro?

edit: if you disagree id like to here your definiton of a professional poker player

irish

I know some people who left college, went travelling, came back and took a part-time job for a while whilst considering what to do with their lives. e.g. Route = UCD --> Australia ---> McDonalds ---> more college/career.

The McDonalds part of their life is never their intention for future career, it's a stop-gap. For the OP this sounds like a stop-gap (and probably more fun than working in McDonalds lol).

In sports going pro usually means dedicating your life to try excel in the sport, forsaking all other income to try make it in the sport for a career.

In poker, i dont think playing the game any amount of hours per day at any stakes describes "going pro" (even as a sole source of income). How would you describe someone with no job who plays with Play Money 7 hours a day? A pro? A bum? Unemployed? I would never describe myself as "pro" even though ive played for 2 years as sole source of income - reason being i've always seen my future away from poker in a different career. "going pro" should = attempting to forge a career with poker as a sole means of income.

HoLLLLLaments

phantom_lord wrote: »

yup.

i try to make myself but it seems like hardwork. I posted a comment a few weeks ago in one and one tonite.

Fobia

Hey HoLLLLLaments, thanks for the tips. I do think you've misunderstood one thing however - I do not work in Dunnes, I used to. I'm currently unemployed and was looking at getting another crappy retail job but then realized even if I can make 2/3 of what I was making in dunnes (that'd be 200e a week) I'd much rather it.

I picked 7 hours because it's the standard day, you know, a 35 hour week? You're completely correct in stating that I'm not a good poker player and shouldn't consider going professional. I've been a musician all my life and that's the only career I can currently foresee for me, but it doesn't exactly pay the bills This is simply a way of earning money to travel with in Summer, as well as normal expenses (diesel and drink). I'm only 18 and live at home. I have no aspirations to becoming the next Negreanu - I just believe I can beat the low level tables and far prefer doing this to folding clothes all day

HoLLLLLaments

Requiem4adream wrote: »

I know some people who left college, went travelling, came back and took a part-time job for a while whilst considering what to do with their lives. e.g. Route = UCD --> Australia ---> McDonalds ---> more college/career.

The McDonalds part of their life is never their intention for future career, it's a stop-gap. For the OP this sounds like a stop-gap (and probably more fun than working in McDonalds lol).

In sports going pro usually means dedicating your life to try excel in the sport, forsaking all other income to try make it in the sport for a career.

In poker, i dont think playing the game any amount of hours per day at any stakes describes "going pro" (even as a sole source of income). How would you describe someone with no job who plays with Play Money 7 hours a day? A pro? A bum? Unemployed? I would never describe myself as "pro" even though ive played for 2 years as sole source of income - reason being i've always seen my future away from poker in a different career. "going pro" should = attempting to forge a career with poker as a sole means of income.

I play poker for a living and if someone asked me what i do id say professional poker player. Also i dont see myself playing poker for a living in 10 years time so does that mean im not a professional? I guess you just have a different definition of what the word professional means than the rest of the world

adj.
1.
a. Of, relating to, engaged in, or suitable for a profession: lawyers, doctors, and other professional people.
b. Conforming to the standards of a profession: professional behavior.
2. Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career: a professional writer.
3. Performed by persons receiving pay: professional football.
4. Having or showing great skill; expert: a professional repair job.
n.
1. A person following a profession, especially a learned profession.
2. One who earns a living in a given or implied occupation: hired a professional to decorate the house.
3. A skilled practitioner; an expert.

HoLLLLLaments

Fobia wrote: »

Hey HoLLLLLaments, thanks for the tips. I do think you've misunderstood one thing however - I do not work in Dunnes, I used to. I'm currently unemployed and was looking at getting another crappy retail job but then realized even if I can make 2/3 of what I was making in dunnes (that'd be 200e a week) I'd much rather it.

I picked 7 hours because it's the standard day, you know, a 35 hour week? You're completely correct in stating that I'm not a good poker player and shouldn't consider going professional. I've been a musician all my life and that's the only career I can currently foresee for me, but it doesn't exactly pay the bills This is simply a way of earning money to travel with in Summer, as well as normal expenses (diesel and drink). I'm only 18 and live at home. I have no aspirations to becoming the next Negreanu - I just believe I can beat the low level tables and far prefer doing this to folding clothes all day

one thing you have to understand is you cant live off poker the same way as you live off a normal job. your not going to consistently make 400 dots a week. It is possible to make that much money at the stakes your playing with the volume your talking about putting in but your not going to be getting a paypacket every week on a friday evening. You need to have a sum of money at your disposal for living expenses etc. your going to have losing weeks and breakeven weeks where you have no consistent income. Its not as simple as i made 500 dots last week, ezzzzzzzz game ill just do this from now on.

Requiem4adream

HoLLLLLaments wrote: »

I play poker for a living and if someone asked me what i do id say professional poker player. Also i dont see myself playing poker for a living in 10 years time so does that mean im not a professional? I guess you just have a different definition of what the word professional means than the rest of the world

Then you are not a pro imo. It's a job not a career and there is a distinction. In life , doctors, lawyers, etc are "professionals". You never hear someone working in Eurospar being described as a "professional". It's irrelevant whether you are or not in any case, the OP is definitely not a pro nor will playing for a few months describe him as being pro. You could go on the dole for 2 months it doesnt describe you as a pro-bum does it? It's a temporary measure.

Pro is an overused word in relation to poker. I dont know the correct word to describe the OP but it aint pro.

HoLLLLLaments

dictionary must be wrong then

also its boring arguing over the definiton of a word.

But I am right and have the dictionary on my side.

Requiem4adream

lol. You gave 8 sub-definitions of professional, 5 adjective, 3 noun and of all 8 only 1 suits the OP to try justify the word in relation to what he's doing. I think you'll find very little "wrong" gets into an Oxford English dictionary. On the other hand, people's interpretations of words can be very wrong... like calling a guy wanting to make a few bob a week to go travelling a "pro".

Fobia

I think requiem's right here. Is someone who works in MacDonalds flipping burgers a professional cook?

However, this is getting awfully off-topic!

Oh and in response to:
one thing you have to understand is you cant live off poker the same way as you live off a normal job. your not going to consistently make 400 dots a week. It is possible to make that much money at the stakes your playing with the volume your talking about putting in but your not going to be getting a paypacket every week on a friday evening. You need to have a sum of money at your disposal for living expenses etc. your going to have losing weeks and breakeven weeks where you have no consistent income. Its not as simple as i made 500 dots last week, ezzzzzzzz game ill just do this from now on.


You're right but...once I average 250 euro or so a week that's fine. I don't *need* any money as such, if I earn nothing one week I can just not go out that weekend and not drive anywhere. The average is the important bit, as there's a goal at the end of this. Heck, if I were to magically make 5,000 euro tomorrow night, I'd quit poker right then. (well, probably not completely, but you know)

HoLLLLLaments

Requiem4adream wrote: »

lol. You gave 8 sub-definitions of professional, 5 adjective, 3 noun and of all 8 only 1 suits the OP to try justify the word in relation to what he's doing. I think you'll find very little "wrong" gets into an Oxford English dictionary. On the other hand, people's interpretations of words can be very wrong... like calling a guy wanting to make a few bob a week to go travelling a "pro".

i highlighted the one which applies. ALL bright and underlined for you.

you also have a habit of taking things out of context and twisting them to suit your argument and hoping nobody notices:

"like calling a guy wanting to make a few bob a week to go travelling"

this is not the case

HoLLLLLaments

Fobia wrote: »

I think requiem's right here. Is someone who works in MacDonalds flipping burgers a professional cook?

playing poker for a living and flipping burgers are not comparable

Fobia wrote: »

You're right but...once I average 250 euro or so a week that's fine. I don't *need* any money as such, if I earn nothing one week I can just not go out that weekend and not drive anywhere. The average is the important bit, as there's a goal at the end of this. Heck, if I were to magically make 5,000 euro tomorrow night, I'd quit poker right then. (well, probably not completely, but you know)

where do you live? how much is rent? do you have phone bills,mobile bills, elec bills,gas bills,heating bills? do you pay for your own food? who buys your clothing?

Fobia

HoLLLLLaments wrote: »

where do you live? how much is rent? do you have phone bills,mobile bills, elec bills,gas bills,heating bills? do you pay for your own food? who buys your clothing?

I live at home. Rent is free. I have no phone bills, a prepaid phone I very rarely top up, no elec bills, no heating bills, don't pay for my own food, I have enough clothing to do me for years (hit America on my travels in October).

I know that could be summed up with "I'm 18 and live at home" but I've already said that in this thread so just in case you didn't understand then..
My only necessary expense is diesel which averages about 10e every 2 weeks. Then there's the optional alcohol/cinema etc that I only do when I have money.
Oh, and I also teach 2 students piano and will probably start busking guitar when the weather gets a little better, so if I do go this route poker still wont be my only income, just my main one.

Requiem4adream

HoLLLLLaments wrote: »

i highlighted the one which applies. ALL bright and underlined for you.

you also have a habit of taking things out of context and twisting them to suit your argument and hoping nobody notices:

"like calling a guy wanting to make a few bob a week to go travelling"

this is not the case

Certainly looks the case to me. He wants to make some money and thinks he can make as much or close to what he made in Dunnes and reckons he'll enjoy it more. That's "going pro" obv....and i appreciate your dictionary assistance on the matter

Anyway, your original advice is very poor. Expecting a newcomer to jump from 1-2 tables to 8 tables in 2 months is foolish advice to say the least. Most newcomers and even experienced players will be unable to make that transition in a short space of time or ever in some cases. Multitabling 8 tables is not for everyone.

dacman

ok here is my take on what you should do..

1. Definely dont play the $22 until you have at least 600 in your account( if you 4 table stt you need a minimum of 40 buy ins.

2. Leave party stts as there is no rakeback.

3. Go to a site where you can get rake back and a sign up bonus( important to get a deal where you can get both..ie where rake back is not deducted from your bonus) I think nicnic plays on crypto which is probably the best for this as they do a bonus and rake back every month so you dont have to move sites to get bonuses. As far as i can make out you can get a $500 bonus for 3500 mpps. I havent done the maths but i think this is about $1200 rake which is 600 $20 stts. On top of this you should get rake back of about 400 or so... So if you break even over 600 stts you make a guaranteed $900. There are also similar deals out there .. green joker isnt bad as they do some good deals aswell and i poker stts are probably a bit easier. also scheck out ongame network. I got a very good deal with betsson when i played there. basically you can get better deals away from party.

4. Make a real efford to play at least 4 tables as to be a decent winer in stts you have to put in a large volume. alot of the people on stars play 20 tables at a time.. spacegravy and the venitian are 2 successful ones that i can think of.

5. Learn and practise ICM. sngicons and sngwiz are good here

6. Even if you think you can do it playing poker 7-8 hours a day 4 tabling can really drain you and isnt the easiest thing in the world to do for a living no matter how much you think you enjoy it now

7.Id recommend getting a good routine going and not staying up all night playing. Play during the day if possible.. Its better for your all round health.



GL with it

Iago

Fobia wrote: »

You're right but...once I average 250 euro or so a week that's fine. I don't *need* any money as such, if I earn nothing one week I can just not go out that weekend and not drive anywhere. The average is the important bit, as there's a goal at the end of this. Heck, if I were to magically make 5,000 euro tomorrow night, I'd quit poker right then. (well, probably not completely, but you know)

Last year I "averaged" $8.50 per STT or around $27 an hour playing $22-$33 stts.

In January I lost around $800 over 100 STTs, thankfully I placed well in a couple of MTTs and I turned a profit for the month. I've no doubt that over the course of the year I'll be in profit from STTs (if I'm not it'll be a first) but it's important you realise that it's entirely possible to have a losing month in any one discipline through running bad and playing worse!

My advice is get yourself a part-time job, work in HMV or something if you don't want to work in Dunnes, that way anything you get from poker will be a bonus as opposed to everything you have.

HoLLLLLaments

Requiem4adream wrote: »

Anyway, your original advice is very poor. Expecting a newcomer to jump from 1-2 tables to 8 tables in 2 months is foolish advice to say the least. Most newcomers and even experienced players will be unable to make that transition in a short space of time or ever in some cases. Multitabling 8 tables is not for everyone.

are you crazy? going from 2 tables to 4 tables minimum in one month while playing 7 hours a day is not difficult. Trying to increase the amount of tables he plays is the best advice any one can give him(effective bankroll management would also up there). Hes not "jumping" from two to eight tables as you said. Its a gradual process but the gradual process of going from 2 to 4 tables shoudnt take any more than a month. You talk like if he fired up 4 tables now his head would explode and hed time out in all of them and finish last. Multi tabling will not lessen your desicion making abilities(assuming its done gradually) it just means you have to adjust to making your desicions quicker. It doesnt take a genius to play 4 tables while if you do play 4 tables it will dramaticaly increase your profit as opposed to one tabling. Multi tabling isnt rocket science. If you cant go from 2 tables to 4 tables in 200 hours of play than your suffering from some sort of mental illness.


Id be willing to bet that I could take someone who is intelligent but has never played a hand of poker in their lives and turn them into a winning player over 10k hands while 4 tabling 10nl in one month. Thoughts?

Also you obviously dont like me and your trying to pick out things I post and "say look everyone, hes wrong" but next time try and make sure you pick something where I am actually wrong.

Requiem4adream

I dont make a habit of disliking people ive never met or barely know but i make exceptions for certain people - got nothing against you! Your screen name kinda screams of "18 year old yank" but it's yours to pick.

I agree with everything you've said up to a certain degree. Increasing number of tables effectively will help maximise your ROI. Agree. Is it easy to gradually go from 2 to 8 tables for most people? imo no it's not easy. A lot of people, even with practise, struggle to focus on 3 games. Multitabling is a skillset in itself and doesnt come naturally. There is a point where it has to be -ev and for many people that's far less than 8 tables. Just because it comes naturally to you and others doesnt mean it's easy to do. In this specific case it's dreadful advice for a player of his experience.

I've covered the "going pro" bit as well. Agree to disagree.

sickpuppy

What relevance has the guys screen name got to good poker advice?
In the few posts hes made hes contributed nicely to a neglected part of the forum stts.
He provided links to stt advice awhile back icm sng wiz etc.
And if you have no other income bar poker its your profession,
you then are a professional poker player.

Requiem4adream

sickpuppy wrote: »

What relevance has the guys screen name got to good poker advice?
In the few posts hes made hes contributed nicely to a neglected part of the forum stts.
He provided links to stt advice awhile back icm sng wiz etc.
And if you have no other income bar poker its your profession,
you then are a professional poker player.

Fine, so every college student (not receiving a grant) paying their way through college playing poker is now a pro? come on. Having a sole income does not = a profession. I'm not being pedantic but it's an important distinction and as soon as you narrow it down to "sole source of income = pro" then you're devaluing the meaning of the word. Daniel Negreanu is a pro. Phil Ivey is a pro. The OP in this thread is not a pro. Once you start labelling every tom d1ck n harry giving poker a shot a "pro" the word loses all meaning.

As for his screen name, all that "holla", "pwned" "pwnage" sh1t drives me round the twist. I dont think there's 1 word they use that's actually a real word and i find it hard to take any of them seriously. I was surprised when he said he's Irish tbh, although shouldnt really be, american influence is pervasive.

HoLLLLLaments

"Id be willing to bet that I could take someone who is intelligent but has never played a hand of poker in their lives and turn them into a winning player over 10k hands while 4 tabling 10nl in one month. Thoughts?"



ok im wrong. my handle being holla obviously means im stupid and have no clue about poker and obviously im wrong about multi tabling and basing my understanding of words on the dictionary definition is obviously madness so lets hammer out some terms on a healthy propbet along the above lines and you can prove how "american influenced young poker players" are morons and how your views on multitabling and the speed in which someone can increase their skills at poker are the law.

HoLLLLLaments

also you seem to get into a lot of arguments on these forums.......... must be everyone else?

phantom_lord

Requiem4adream wrote: »

Anyway, your original advice is very poor. Expecting a newcomer to jump from 1-2 tables to 8 tables in 2 months is foolish advice to say the least. Most newcomers and even experienced players will be unable to make that transition in a short space of time or ever in some cases. Multitabling 8 tables is not for everyone.

I did it in about a month when i first started playing online, and i imagine lots of other people who decide to take poker seriously can do it just as easily too, especially someone who says

The concentration required for that long doesn't bother me as I used to play a computer game for that long/day at a fairly high level (quakeworld if anyone knows it!), so grinding is fine.

anyway, he's only playing low level stts, not like he has to think a whole lot or anything.

redzerdrog

i really struggle with 4 table so only play 2 tables most of the time now

Macspower

Only seeing this now...

Best of luck with the venture...

a lot of the SNG and bankroll management has already been covered already so I'll leave that alone..

Just something that works for me... When I started playing poker as mentioned it couldn't be taken as a "real" job with a pay packet on a friday.... or so I thought.... until I did this...
I decided what the minimum wage I required was and I pay it to myself from my BR every month (now weekly actually) and in that way whether I ran bad or good I still got paid the same wage regardless... Then with propper BR management I make sure I dont go busto and there we go "a real job"

Might be worth a try... keep us posted on your venture..

As with the poker pro argument.... I prefer the term "full time poker player" as pro kinda suggests I ahve to be good or something... but call it what you like.... at the end of the day once ou make a few bob it's all that matters really

best of luck

Mac

nicnicnic

Iago wrote: »

Last year I "averaged" $8.50 per STT or around $27 an hour playing $22-$33 stts.

.

thats a great return for that buy in, I think the amount won per stt is very important and many people overlook it just to play higher buyins inevitably against better oponents. Just out of curisity the $27 an hour probably means you only 1 or 2 table, how many did you play over the year.

nice work, I know you wont make what this guy does

Dariominieri games 17,757 /average win $37.4 /average buyin $1,275 ,

but you needn't worry about the $200,000 downswings either

RasTa

HoLLLLLaments wrote: »

also you seem to get into a lot of arguments on these forums.......... must be everyone else?

Don't worry dude, he is a clown.

Requiem4adream

phantom_lord wrote: »

I did it in about a month when i first started playing online, and i imagine lots of other people who decide to take poker seriously can do it just as easily too, especially someone who says

anyway, he's only playing low level stts, not like he has to think a whole lot or anything.

Again, of course it's doable. And done correctly will maximise ROI. But just because it's easy for you or holla doesnt mean it's easy for everyone else. As redzerdrog says above, 4 tables are a struggle for some to focus on and i know plenty of players who wont do more than 2.

As for Holla, what exactly is your problem? I disagreed with part of your advice... and? I suddenly dont like you? Advising a 1-tabler newbie to up it to 8 tables in 2 months as part of his going "pro" is not advice i would give to someone at that stage of their development.

The best advice in this thread by a mile was from dacman. Read that OP and you'll be fine.

Requiem4adream

Macspower wrote:

As with the poker pro argument.... I prefer the term "full time poker player" as pro kinda suggests I ahve to be good or something... but call it what you like.... at the end of the day once ou make a few bob it's all that matters really

Mac

+1 put it better than i did

Ste05

Jesus people can we take a chill pill. WTF is with all this arguing lately. And without doubt less of the personal abuse. In particular RasTa, that's out of order and unprovoked. Consider yourself warned.

Feel free to argue away about whatever but don't make it personal.

Can we please stay on topic.

***removes mod hat***

On the multi-tabling point I'd have to kind of agree with both sides, 8 tabling is very difficult and to go from 1-2 tabling to consistently 8 tabling in 1 or 2 months is very difficult, (especially 7 hours a day, 5 days a week) maybe not so much for STT's (I don't play them anymore and I'd have thought they were pretty straight forward once you know what you're doing and alot of the time it's just following a formula and may only need to concentrate on 3 or 4 of the tables at any time) but certainly 8 tabling even low level cash games is very draining, it takes alot out of you 8 tabling. And IMO to 8 table for 7 hours a day 5 days a week is extremely taxing (to put it mildly) and the ability to do that is certainly a skill in itself, the concentration and dedication needed for it is huge. Even to keep firing up STT's/ tables when one breaks can be annoying.

Another point to note is that it will definitely see a reduction in your ROI or BB/100 as you increase the # of tables, whether your hourly rate would increase I don't know (probably would) but it's something to keep a keen eye on. Your ROI will drop as you increase the number of tables and to find a balance between ROI and hourly rate is difficult and takes time. IMO 2 months is not long enough. Although 7 hours a day, 5 days a week for 2 months, if you are still playing in 2 months then you'll know yourself because that will be huge volume. And as others have said don't even dream of doing this kind of volume without RB (make sure the site includes tournament reg's in the RB, because alot don't!).

Kingralph152

I'm in a similar situation to OP and have only been playing online 6pack SNG's for the last 6 months.I dont mind admitting that I find it difficult to play 2 tables at once,never mind playing 8! Multitableing is not easy for everybody.

Iago

nicnicnic wrote: »

thats a great return for that buy in, I think the amount won per stt is very important and many people overlook it just to play higher buyins inevitably against better oponents. Just out of curisity the $27 an hour probably means you only 1 or 2 table, how many did you play over the year.

nice work, I know you wont make what this guy does

Dariominieri games 17,757 /average win $37.4 /average buyin $1,275 ,

but you needn't worry about the $200,000 downswings either

My biggest problem (if you could call it that) is getting the motivation to play on a regular basis. I'm only playing a fraction of the games I was playing 2-3 years ago. So I probably should have quantified that in my earlier post.

My return is based on 2-3 tabling, sometimes 4 across just over 1,000 STTS. So not a huge number statistically by any means.