The republican race is more interesting than the democratic one.

brianthebard

Just putting that out there. Everyone's been talking about the woman versus the black man, which one makes america seem more liberal, etc, etc. But really its not that big a deal anymore (although not many countries elect leaders from minority groups). Point is they are both fairly competent politicans and pretty much what you'd expect from the D's.

On the other hand, we have a 74 year old pensioner, a mormon, (until last night) a serial marrying former mayor, and a creationist young earth advocate preacher. Now that's a race thats a bit out of the ordinary. I'm just an observer, I don't have a preference for either party, but it seems to me that the republicans will be more entertainment value. Any thoughts?

snow scorpion

Looks to me like McCain has it locked up. I wonder who the vice-president picks will be.

brianthebard

Yeah but he'll be almost eighty when he finishes his first term. I've nothing against people working into old age, but you'd have to wonder if he'd be capable of reaching the end of his term. What I was trying to say is that none of the republicans are imminently electable, and even when you forget about the age, mccain is pissing some people off with his views on immigration.

SteveS

The Clintons seem to be taking off the gloves and getting dirty with Obama, so I think that is more interesting. OTOH, Obama has been taking the high road and doesn't seem to be retaliating.

snow scorpion

Ah! I see your point. But you should know McCain is pissing a lot of people off with his views on (1) illegal immigration, (2) freedom of speech, (3) Guantanamo Bay, (4) water-boarding, (5) opposing tax cuts, (6) gun control and (7) his overall imperious attitude.

Manic Moran

Whilst this is true, the same people who are concerned by his stances on such topics will be likely the sort of people who abhorr the concept of a Democrat winning, and may well vote for him in opposition to this.

NTM

banquo

McCain and Romney are quit similiar in terms of where they stand in the left-right spectrum. if McCain wants to carry the conservative base then he'll need Huckabee on the ticket, I don't think he gains much from Romney.

Then again, does he really need a hard core social conservative on the ticket? it's not like the people who want one are gonna go for hillary/obama, the GOP ticket will be their only choice.

IMO.

moe_sizlak

banquo wrote: »

McCain and Romney are quit similiar in terms of where they stand in the left-right spectrum. if McCain wants to carry the conservative base then he'll need Huckabee on the ticket, I don't think he gains much from Romney.

Then again, does he really need a hard core social conservative on the ticket? it's not like the people who want one are gonna go for hillary/obama, the GOP ticket will be their only choice.

IMO.

youd be surprised , the hatred for mc cain among the gop base is astounding , why i heard ann coulter say on fox recently that she,d vote for hillary over mc cain , rush limbaugh is mounting a campaign against mc cain
personally i think hillary is just as right wing as the moderate republican mc cain , i think the gop faithfull will stay at home and even mc cain wins which he could ( he can win as many independants as the democrat ) the republican machine will after 4 yrs try and send another canditate like they did in 1976 against gerald ford

banquo

They can get the gop faithfull to come out and vote with huckabee on the ticket. You've to admit that he's a great public speaker and comes across wonderfully in debates. A McCain/Romney ticket, it would seem to me, is doomed.

Or they might come out purely to vote against hillary.

moe_sizlak

banquo wrote: »

They can get the gop faithfull to come out and vote with huckabee on the ticket. You've to admit that he's a great public speaker and comes across wonderfully in debates. A McCain/Romney ticket, it would seem to me, is doomed.

Or they might come out purely to vote against hillary.

huckabee is both a good speaker and apart from him not believing in evolution , i think hes a likable genuine christian guy , id like to think not all evangelicals are dangerous , huckabee like mc cain is not a republican whos only concern is the top 1% , huckabee is only really right wing on moral issues , that said , hes a hick and is not great on foreign policy which mc cain is
romney who i think is the dullest man on earth certainly wont be on the ticket
it could be somoene who didnt even run though

brianthebard

snow scorpion wrote: »

Ah! I see your point. But you should know McCain is pissing a lot of people off with his views on (1) illegal immigration, (2) freedom of speech, (3) Guantanamo Bay, (4) water-boarding, (5) opposing tax cuts, (6) gun control and (7) his overall imperious attitude.

Oh absolutely. But that makes it even more interesting, because he's old enough to have been in the party before it made its leap to hardcore conservatism in the late sixties/early seventies. In many ways he represents the party before that period. And as has been pointed out many many republicans don't want to vote for him. Also, could Guiliani now run as vice-presidential candidate? He can Mc Cain would have fairly similar moderateish views, especially compared to the other two.

banquo

I guess that hard part is coming up with a ticket that's broad without being divisive. I think their best chance is to get that romney clown off the stage [I think some pundit said during the week that Hillary would make him eat every small mistake since taking public life] and have either a McCain/Guliani or McCain/Huckabee Ticket.

IIR every poll by realclearpolitics.com has McCain beating Hillary or Obama. Having said that, and as we all know, you don't f**k with the Clintons.

speedboatchase

I think (although I'd love to see Obama as the nominee) it'll turn out like this

Hillary - Obama Vs McCain - Huckabee

Giuliani is remarkably close to McCain in public lately, making an appearence together on Leno etc but I don't think he'll want Giuliani's controversial (for the GOP) positions on gay rights and abortion on the ticket. He's already getting tons of flack for his Immigration policy. A bible belter like Huckabee will tie up the Southern votes and get him back on track with the GOP's base. Romney and McCain clearly HATE one another so I really doubt he'd ever get on board as a VP.

As much as the Clintons questionable tactics in South Carolina obviously angered Obama, I think the Democrats will realise that both candidates are far too popular to leave one off the ticket. And since their politics are fairly similar I'd imagine them campaigning together, though the nominee certainly won't be decided by Tuesday.

Oh and lets hope Ron Paul doesn't run as an independent, how much more can his 9/11 truth band of wackos spam the internet than they have already?

snow scorpion

I have to disagree, speedboatchase.

I doubt it will be Clinton-Obama. If they got in and everything turned to crap (as it almost certainly would) voters would deny both women and blacks entry to the White House for years to come. The Dems would most likely want to keep Obama has a fallback plan when Hillary makes a mess of everything.

Also, I doubt Hillary would tolerate a veep who is more popular with the American public than she is.

Look for Hillary to pick someone who is content to be a Clinton boot-licker, but appears to be further to the right than Hillary. Maybe Gen. Wesley Clark.


As far as the Republicans go, I think McCain-Giuliani is more likely than McCain-Huckabee. McCain is unpopular with the Republican base (he's winning with 30-35% of the vote which means 65-70% of the Republicans are voting "not McCain.") Huckabee is even less popular with the GOP base. He can't even get 20% of the vote.

cavedave

Oh and lets hope Ron Paul doesn't run as an independent, how much more can his 9/11 truth band of wackos spam the internet than they have already?

And you wont have to listen to his crazy talk of

1. Obeying the constitution
2. Not printing money like a drunken sailor
3. Not infringing on individual liberty
4. Not spending 2/3 of your federal taxes on killingry

banquo

Let's not forget:

1. That he has asked the 9/11 truth people to stop saying that he is one because he's not; the closest he has ever come is saying that a new investigation into 9/11 wouldn't be the worst idea.
2. He's pro gay marraige, and the free association of any 2 people
3. Pro-life
4. The only rep who doesn't want to regulate the internet
5. Has a sensible, non-patronising view of the war in Iraq, and would bring the troops home in the shortest possible time frame from his 1st day in office. To quote "We're not the world's policeman and we shouldn't be acting like it; everybody hates us for it"
6. Anti-national ID Card
7. Thinks "Patriot Act = Bad"
8. Has never dumbed down; while Ronmay's talking bulls**t about the economy Ron Paul was talks about the gold standard.

banquo

Furthermore:

-Would make homeschooled kids eligible for the same college scholarships as regular kids.
-is pro stem cell
-mode of transport: Blimp

brianthebard

snow scorpion wrote: »

I have to disagree, speedboatchase.

I doubt it will be Clinton-Obama. If they got in and everything turned to crap (as it almost certainly would) voters would deny both women and blacks entry to the White House for years to come. The Dems would most likely want to keep Obama has a fallback plan when Hillary makes a mess of everything.

Also, I doubt Hillary would tolerate a veep who is more popular with the American public than she is.

I don't think Obama has been shown to be more popular that Hillary yet, although we will find out soon.

As far as the Republicans go, I think McCain-Giuliani is more likely than McCain-Huckabee. McCain is unpopular with the Republican base (he's winning with 30-35% of the vote which means 65-70% of the Republicans are voting "not McCain.") Huckabee is even less popular with the GOP base. He can't even get 20% of the vote.

This is another reason why the rep race is so interesting, because at present it looks likely that McCain will get the nomination, but Huckabee is a bit nutty and wouldn't be accepted by either McCain or the voters, Romney and McCain don't see eye to eye, (plus he's a mormon, even though its a growing church its still viewed with suspicion) and Guiliani isn't very popular (as seen by his dropping out) and he's quite liberal. The only thing thats holding the republicans together right now is that Hillary might be nominated.

moe_sizlak

brianthebard wrote: »

I don't think Obama has been shown to be more popular that Hillary yet, although we will find out soon.






This is another reason why the rep race is so interesting, because at present it looks likely that McCain will get the nomination, but Huckabee is a bit nutty and wouldn't be accepted by either McCain or the voters, Romney and McCain don't see eye to eye, (plus he's a mormon, even though its a growing church its still viewed with suspicion) and Guiliani isn't very popular (as seen by his dropping out) and he's quite liberal. The only thing thats holding the republicans together right now is that Hillary might be nominated.

mc cain may need huckabee to bring in the ned flanders evangelical brigade

User45701

snow scorpion wrote: »

Ah! I see your point. But you should know McCain is pissing a lot of people off with his views on (1) illegal immigration, (2) freedom of speech, (3) Guantanamo Bay, (4) water-boarding, (5) opposing tax cuts, (6) gun control and (7) his overall imperious attitude.

I posted it before all this bagan. Mccain has it, saw a pre-vote interview thing and i knew he would get it. Im still convinced he will be pres.
Regardless of his views he is in there. He might annoy some people with what you mentioned above but i think you underestimate several things

1. How many racists/femenists there actually are, there are people who will vote for mcain because they dsont want a woman or a black person as their presidiant.

2.Fear Americanas are terrified of another 9/11 and allot of them would belive that a man like mccain can keep them safe.

3. I also think your underestimating how many americans like their guns... and not to forget this man is a "vet" and that does carry allot of weight with americana's

Manic Moran

3. I also think your underestimating how many americans like their guns...

McCain and the NRA are not exactly best buddies, I'm afraid. Indeed, short of Rudy, there was no Republican candidate less liked on the firearms issue. McCain is also on record as supporting a renewal of the ludicrous "assault weapon" ban, although Bush had the same position. (That said, Bush was pretty certain he wouldn't be presented with one to consider signing, which was correct).

We don't think firearms are going to be that huge an issue this time around. Even though Obama is pretty damned draconian on the concept, we can't see that he will ever be put into a situation where his opinions will have an effect. The Democratic majorities gained a few years ago were due to a bunch of pro-gun moderate Democrats in flyover country and the South. The lessons of 1994 were learned by the Democratic party when they got utterly turfed out of office after their last bout of firearms legislation, so only the hard-core anti-gunners are the sort who will bring it up. It is unlikely that Obama would be presented with an anti-firearms bill to sign.

Finally, there is a Supreme Court case coming up next month (to be decided this summer) which most people think is going to be decided in favour of gun owners, which itself would reduce the anti-gun proclivities of a President.

NTM

ghostdancer

User45701 wrote: »

1. How many racists/femenists there actually are, there are people who will vote for mcain because they dsont want a woman or a black person as their presidiant.

i honestly can't see this being an issue to be honest. big blue states will stay blue, big red will stay red. it's only a couple of swing states that need to go from red to blue for a Dem GE win, right? not to tar them all with the same brush, but the states most typically identified as "racist" tend to be GOP states anyway, and i can't imagine that there is enough racism in enough of the swing states to go from blue to red, or to prevent one that might have gone for Bush last time to go to Reps instead of Dems.

i'm not sure about the woman issue either. I'd say it'd be far easier to entice left-leaning republican women to vote for a woman than those who would refuse to vote for a woman, especially on the D side. even then, again, it'd just be a few states that need to go from R to D for the Dems to win the white house. i would imagine that most D states from 2004 would hold...

banquo

Breaking news!!

AP: Romney's dropped out.

Yuss. Hated that ambitious twerp. Huckabee for VP it seems.

RE: The dems - Brokered convention, here we come!

ghostdancer

i was rooting for Romney, the Dems would have destroyed him in the GE. McCain is a more formidable opponent I think...

snow scorpion

banquo wrote: »

Huckabee for VP it seems.

I heard someone on the radio today offering about a half-dozen solid reasons to pick Haley Barbour (Governor of Mississippi) as the veep.

Manic Moran

ghostdancer wrote: »

i was rooting for Romney, the Dems would have destroyed him in the GE. McCain is a more formidable opponent I think...

It's in the hands of the Democratic party now, I think. If they select Obama, I'll be very surprised if they lose. They go with Clinton against McCain, and I'll only be a little surprised if they lose.

NTM