AIL Club rugby in terminal decline

blackthornboots

Friends of club rugby,
The ostrich puts his head in the sand.......why does he do that?
He does it to avoid trouble.
The IRFU has its head in the sand by allowing an unsustainable AIL league to continue while the participating clubs go bankrupt.
Why are the CLUBS going under?
Simple.....living beyond their means.
How do they do that?
Income is less than expenditure.
Why is that?
There are no longer the traditional revenues to support the cost of staying in the league. There is CERTAINLY no longer the volume of spectators willing to view matches and stay on afterwards to socialize because of tougher drink driving laws. In addition the paying public can see a higher standard of rugby game at provincial level where the professionals operate. The Heineken Cup has sucked the money out of club rugby and moved it to the Provincial scene.
You won’t see an Irish international operating at club level unless he is coming back from injury and needs game time. Thats because he is contracted.
So what about the elite club players.....? Those not yet capped but sandwiched between the Provincial squad and the Club.
Well they are completely stuck...... contracted to the Province but little or no shop window? B interprovincials or give them the occasional game at club level albeit at the lower standard they need to operate at. Train with the squads but play with the amateurs. The frustration grows because the competition isn’t there for all.
Meanwhile back at the club the expenses are mounting up......overnight trips to Ulster or down to Munster, bring the phisio, bring the manager, the coaches, the kit person, pay the valuable imports necessary to maintain the league position.
Sponsorship didn’t mean paying for expenses of such value, AIB league contributions don’t make ends meet. Gates are down, drinking is down, travel is up, distances are greater and most importantly players expectations are higher. They want to be compensated by being paid expenses and drink vouchers and houses and perks and, and,......
Clubs are being asked to carry the load when plainly they can’t.
It’s about time someone called a halt to the lemming madness because a lot of clubs are heading towards the cliff edge.
Club members need to tell their executives ......stop the spending, get a grip and stand up to the mandarins at H.Q.
THEY HAVE ONLY ONE THING ON THEIR MIND ........The IRFU and being involved on world rugby stage AND THE GRASS ROOTS CAN GO FIGURE THE MODERN GAME OUT BY THEMSELVES........EXPENSES AND ALL !!
We all saw how the IRFU plan went in France!! They have a capacity to get major issues wrong.
I, for one, am for the following:
LETS GET CLUB RUGBY BACK TO AN EXPENSE LEVEL WHICH IS SUSTAINABLE AND WILL BE WATCHED BY THOSE INTERESTED IN THE AMATEUR GAME BY TALKING ABOUT THE PROBLEMS AND DEALING WITH THE ISSUES .Lets face up to the Branches and the IRFU and make ourselves heard. Get the debate going and let’s make some changes .YOUR SUGGESTIONS AS TO NEW POSSIBLE STRUCTURES WOULD BE WELCOME.
looking forward to your views............

_________________
BLACKTHORNBOOTS

Stev_o

blackthornboots wrote: »

Friends of club rugby,
The ostrich puts his head in the sand.......why does he do that?
He does it to avoid trouble.
The IRFU has its head in the sand by allowing an unsustainable AIL league to continue while the participating clubs go bankrupt.
Why are the CLUBS going under?
Simple.....living beyond their means.
How do they do that?
Income is less than expenditure.
Why is that?
There are no longer the traditional revenues to support the cost of staying in the league. There is CERTAINLY no longer the volume of spectators willing to view matches and stay on afterwards to socialize because of tougher drink driving laws. In addition the paying public can see a higher standard of rugby game at provincial level where the professionals operate. The Heineken Cup has sucked the money out of club rugby and moved it to the Provincial scene.
You won’t see an Irish international operating at club level unless he is coming back from injury and needs game time. Thats because he is contracted.
So what about the elite club players.....? Those not yet capped but sandwiched between the Provincial squad and the Club.
Well they are completely stuck...... contracted to the Province but little or no shop window? B interprovincials or give them the occasional game at club level albeit at the lower standard they need to operate at. Train with the squads but play with the amateurs. The frustration grows because the competition isn’t there for all.
Meanwhile back at the club the expenses are mounting up......overnight trips to Ulster or down to Munster, bring the phisio, bring the manager, the coaches, the kit person, pay the valuable imports necessary to maintain the league position.
Sponsorship didn’t mean paying for expenses of such value, AIB league contributions don’t make ends meet. Gates are down, drinking is down, travel is up, distances are greater and most importantly players expectations are higher. They want to be compensated by being paid expenses and drink vouchers and houses and perks and, and,......
Clubs are being asked to carry the load when plainly they can’t.
It’s about time someone called a halt to the lemming madness because a lot of clubs are heading towards the cliff edge.
Club members need to tell their executives ......stop the spending, get a grip and stand up to the mandarins at H.Q.
THEY HAVE ONLY ONE THING ON THEIR MIND ........The IRFU and being involved on world rugby stage AND THE GRASS ROOTS CAN GO FIGURE THE MODERN GAME OUT BY THEMSELVES........EXPENSES AND ALL !!
We all saw how the IRFU plan went in France!! They have a capacity to get major issues wrong.
I, for one, am for the following:
LETS GET CLUB RUGBY BACK TO AN EXPENSE LEVEL WHICH IS SUSTAINABLE AND WILL BE WATCHED BY THOSE INTERESTED IN THE AMATEUR GAME BY TALKING ABOUT THE PROBLEMS AND DEALING WITH THE ISSUES .Lets face up to the Branches and the IRFU and make ourselves heard. Get the debate going and let’s make some changes .YOUR SUGGESTIONS AS TO NEW POSSIBLE STRUCTURES WOULD BE WELCOME.
looking forward to your views............

_________________
BLACKTHORNBOOTS

And what team are these facts based on may i ask?

Amz

I'm not going to read his post 'til he tidies it up a bit.

EdgarAllenPoo

Club rugby would be saved by Setanta or RTE getting off their holes and signing a deal to broadcast the games.

If Setanta can cover schools rugby why not AIL? Then more sponsorship money goes to the clubs, ad revenue and gate receipts, people see the matches on TV and want to go see them live.

I've said it here for the past two years straight, the one or two AIL matches hat RTE show are not enough. It needs tv exposure and then the clubs will start to get the support and money they need.

paddyreilly

Ya gotta love these one-post rants. I saw the phrase "grass roots". It's enough to turn anybody off anything.

Funkstard

GDM wrote: »

Club rugby would be saved by Setanta or RTE getting off their holes and signing a deal to broadcast the games.

If Setanta can cover schools rugby why not AIL? Then more sponsorship money goes to the clubs, ad revenue and gate receipts, people see the matches on TV and want to go see them live.

I've said it here for the past two years straight, the one or two AIL matches hat RTE show are not enough. It needs tv exposure and then the clubs will start to get the support and money they need.

Broadcasting from Donnybrook is easy, all the media infrastructure is already in place for Setanta to come in. They only broadcast from there, so it doesn't cost that much.

Compare that to equipping the number of grounds used in the AIL to the same level. Highly unfeasible I'd imagine.

blackthornboots

Yes.......paddyreilly that was a rant.As usual rants are born out of fustration.I am watching a club I love digging a hole from which there is no obvious way out.I am asking for help in solving that problem.Any constructive comments would be appreciated.
I would suspect many a Leeds supporter went through the same angst !

wicklowdub

Amz wrote: »

I'm not going to read his post 'til he tidies it up a bit.

Why bother replying with that. The guy obvously loves his club and is desperate for some help.

Its a simple rule to live by, expenditure cant exceed income. Simple to say I know. Wage structure to be capped at a lower level for a start. Get club officials out into the community with imaginative marketing, tarket the schools to get kids & parents involved etc.

RTE sports department is dwindling in appetite for home based sport. Its easier to broadcast the English Premiership highlights package on a Saturday evening. Setanta sports or TV3 may be the way to go, obviously the lead needs to come from IRFU HQ.

GreenHell

This been looked at over and over again. No one in the IRFU wants to make the tough decisions and turn AIL around, probably be cause of all the DIV 2 and DIV 3 clubs that spent a fortune to either make the jump from junoir or on imports.

The best solution would be in my opinion, to have div 1, properly financed and have the best players pushed into div 1. 1 relegation position and a round robin to decide which club from 4 provincial leagues would get promoted. Some TV support would be nice as well.

Amazotheamazing

Often discussed on the bigger provincial rugby sites, here's a recent one

http://munsterfans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9818

The club game is in trouble, I think a smaller top teir and then provincial leagues is the only way to go.

komodosp

Considering some of the rubbish that RTE put on and also considering they are sort of national based (well... paid for by license holders, not just commercial) I can't understand why they don't put on some sort of programme on Saturday with at least one AIL match... And maybe hire some local to do up highlights of the other matches.

il gatto

When the clubs aren't generating the sort of income an inter county GAA team does, you would wonder at the viability of a nationwide league, as opposed to a provincial set up with which turns to a knockout between league winners in each province. I know that wouldn't suit Galwegians of Ballymena because they'd be playing against lesser quality teams, but it would keep costs down for the clubs.
I also think that imported players should be kept to a minimum. Not only would this save money, but the more Irish players you develop, the more use you are to the IRFU. Hopefully that may result in more help from them.
I've also noticed that alot of matches are played while Ireland matches are on, or other big internationals or HEC matches. I know it's a separate league and has to do it's own thing, but it's a bit obtuse to have a match clashing with some major international which is going to decimate your attendence.
I'm certain club rugby will survive, but I wonder at what level. Will it become more professional and important to Irish rugby, or will it revert to a super amature status with little or no supporters and loads of guys still playing near forty because there's shag all else coming through.

PiP 101

komodosp wrote: »

Considering some of the rubbish that RTE put on and also considering they are sort of national based (well... paid for by license holders, not just commercial) I can't understand why they don't put on some sort of programme on Saturday with at least one AIL match... And maybe hire some local to do up highlights of the other matches.

Against the head used to give a short burst to AIL if my memory serves correctly . It was short but it shows that the games are recorded and broadcastable on a national stage . At the end of it all its viewers that count and honestly bar the AIL league finals could you see a large viewing audience at 3 on a saturday for local sides. In fairness TG4 broadcast local GAA throughout the year and the others could do well to support our own and do the same . What the viewing numbers for TG4 for these games is i dont know but they still are on.

wicklowdub

PiP 101 wrote: »

. What the viewing numbers for TG4 for these games is i dont know but they still are on.

46,000 watched last weeks club game. Just 6.6% off the view public.
http://www.tg4.ie/Bearla/Scan/scan.htm

Amz

Rugby is still not as popular as GAA or Soccer in this country.

The League of Ireland struggles to get coverage of games and recognition etc. There are far too many rugby clubs around the country to feasably broadcast or even record all of the games.

It would be great to see the AIL get regular TV coverage, but the money and the interest just isn't there.

wicklowdub

The Eircom League survives in spite of the FAI. The IRFU & the GAA run their respective sports far more professionally. Cutting the league down to two 10 or 12 team leagues is not a bad idea, concentrating on a smaller number of clubs. I know this reduces the gene pool for prospective International players but lets be honest, the AIL isnt producing players at the moment in any great number that are stepping up to the national side.

GreenHell

I don't think it cuts down the gene pool really, if you think how many players are involved with div 2 and div 3 clubs that will never reach any sort of height in their playing careers. We be far better off having one elite league for developing the best players in the provinces.

I suppose the flip side of this is you would have to be more ruthless bringing in foreign players to the provencial teams, there has to be a carrot if some young fella is producing the goods in an AIL super league.

damnyanks

A lot of the players with potential get brought into division 1 clubs as it is. Nothing new there

madds

I was told about 4 years ago by a senior committee member that it cost €250k to keep the first team of a particular AIL Div 2 club up and running over the course of a season. Sounded like a fantasy figure at the time.

themont85

The idea of having one all ireland division and provincial divisions below this is a good one I think. It would cut costs for the teams and could create better rivalries because of the closer proximity of teams to each other.

They need to encourage guys to stick around who may drop of the provincial radar at say 22-25, especially props who mature later. Maybe a cap on the number of older players who will not make it would be good. A good competitve club game linking junior, schools, u20 level to Pro rugby is needed and might be cheaper than at the moment.

welish

PiP 101 wrote: »

Against the head used to give a short burst to AIL if my memory serves correctly . It was short but it shows that the games are recorded and broadcastable on a national stage . At the end of it all its viewers that count and honestly bar the AIL league finals could you see a large viewing audience at 3 on a saturday for local sides. In fairness TG4 broadcast local GAA throughout the year and the others could do well to support our own and do the same . What the viewing numbers for TG4 for these games is i dont know but they still are on.

Yeah I remember that on against the head myself. If they can show the highlights from start to finish of a lot of the top AIL games then they can surely show the full games. The cameraman is still putting in the same hours.

youcancallmeal

I was at the AIL game last Saturday between Mary's and Old Belvedere and there was easily 1000 supporters theres. Its been more or less the same for any of the other Mary's games I've been at this season. I dunno about you but I think thats a pretty good turnout?

blackthornboots

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Often discussed on the bigger provincial rugby sites, here's a recent one

http://munsterfans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9818

The club game is in trouble, I think a smaller top teir and then provincial leagues is the only way to go.

That site has some good perspectives on this issue.
Smaller Top flight and individual provincial leagues......
That approach seems to have merit. The trick I believe is to provide a platform for the better younger players post their academy time i.e under 20,s
A top flight supported by local t.v and local sponsorship and part funded by the IRFU would allow strong clubs to blossom. Irish only need apply and thus you protect the local players. Travel /accomodation /coaching allowances could be available funded by the cash from selling the T.V. rights and sponsorship.Today AIL sponsorship of €1.8m is supposed to come back to the clubs.
Relegation/promotion could be part of the new structure and the residual teams would play within their provincial leagues and not be travelling up and down the countryside.
The perception amongst the Leinster/Munster selectors is that only a handful of current AIL league players are up to Heineken Cup standard which is rising every year.
THe IRFU could contribute a fixed % of their gross income to foster home development by funding this premiership league.
Space on Heineken cup teams is already coming under increasing pressure from imports because T.V. rights will dictate more imports per team e.g. the Barclays Premiership.

BLACKTHORNBOOTS:)