Swiss Army Knives = Firearm?

Conor108

Is it illegal to walk around with like a swiss army knife/penknife yoke? Only I heard someone got arrested for possesion of a firearm and it was a swiss army knife


And yeah this may not be the right forum

paulksnn

I've carried one for several years, I use about 70 % of the tools in a week.
I'd hate to think it's illegal to carry one.
I know someone with a spring loaded knife got done, but that's not exactly the same.

Dyr

AFAIK You can pretty much be arrested for possesion of anything as a weapon, you have to have to have "good cause" or "good reason" to be carrying the item(for use in work etc).

conor2007

nope

i got stopped on friday on the quays and i had one - guard said nothing

he stopped me for ''misuse of drugs act'' bollix - wanker annoyed me a lot'

anyway - obviously he found nothing as i had nothing - the only illegal item i had was what i thought the knife - but he said nothing

dsmythy

conor2007 wrote: »

nope

i got stopped on friday on the quays and i had one - guard said nothing

he stopped me for ''misuse of drugs act'' bollix - wanker annoyed me a lot'

anyway - obviously he found nothing as i had nothing - the only illegal item i had was what i thought the knife - but he said nothing

God you must not have been looking your best to be stopped along the quays under the misuse of drugs act!

starn

I dont know how the law stands now.But I think it has something to do ith the lenght of the blade. Anything over 6 in isclassed as concelled weapon. I know someone who got done for carring a concelled weapon. They got caught with a sissors in there pocket. I also think flick knifes are or were Illegal.

Dyr

thats some of the legislation there, like i said any blade in a public place can be deemed an offence. Theres other legislation too but i cant find it. It includes lists of other banned weapons including a "death star"

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1990/en/act/pub/0012/sec0009.html#zza12y1990s9

It wasn't me!

it's 3 inches. I think it allows for multitools like swiss army knives. That said, if the guard wants to make your life miserable, he doesn't have to go very far to do so.

As regards scissors, they make a vicious weapon.

Dyr

*sigh* reading the christing article boys

9.—(1) Subject to subsections (2) and (3), where a person has with him in any public place any knife or any other article which has a blade or which is sharply pointed, he shall be guilty of an offence.

[GA] (2) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.

[GA] (3) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (2), it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) to prove that he had the article with him for use at work or for a recreational purpose.

Lump

**** em - What if I want to buy a bread knife and I happen to get stopped on the street. I'm sure a pen knife is fine.

Stercus Accidit

Bambi wrote: »

*sigh* reading the christing article boys

9.—(1) Subject to subsections (2) and (3), where a person has with him in any public place any knife or any other article which has a blade or which is sharply pointed, he shall be guilty of an offence.

[GA] (2) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.

[GA] (3) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (2), it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) to prove that he had the article with him for use at work or for a recreational purpose.

If you have good reason to have the scissors etc. its admissable as a defence, but flick knives are indeed banned in part 4

andyl222

I'm an art student and at any given time could have a couple of stanley knives/craft knives in my bag...is that an offence??? I remember when my brother was a chef, he got stopped and the gardai went mental cos he had a meat cleaver in his bag.

Dar

Lump wrote: »

**** em - What if I want to buy a bread knife and I happen to get stopped on the street. I'm sure a pen knife is fine.

Common sense applies to this legislation. Carrying a fishing knife while sitting at a river bank in public sight while holding a fishing rod is legal. Walking into a nightclub with the same knife is illegal.

o1s1n

Conor108 wrote: »

Is it illegal to walk around with like a swiss army knife/penknife yoke? Only I heard someone got arrested for possesion of a firearm and it was a swiss army knife


And yeah this may not be the right forum

Ive heard of people being arrested for firearms offenses for having automatic knives. Switchblades and that kind of thing. As theyre illegal to own as far as I know.

FunkZ

dsmythy wrote: »

God you must not have been looking your best to be stopped along the quays under the misuse of drugs act!

Ha yeah get a t shirt that says "I don't actually take drugs by the way"!

Saint_Mel

starn wrote: »

Anything over 6 in isclassed as concelled weapon.

It sure is

Depends on the Garda though.
A mate of mine got nabbed for having a swiss army knife a few years ago.
He was walking home from fishing, complete with fishing rod, hooks, bait box
and even a fish, but the Garda said he shouldn't be carrying the knife when
he wasnt actually fishing!!

There was a bit of history between my mate and that particular cop

SimpleSam06

Its mad really. I can wander around with a hurley or a lump hammer no bothers, but try carrying around a small blade and see what happens.

BaconZombie

Bambi wrote: »

*sigh* reading the christing article boys

9.—(1) Subject to subsections (2) and (3), where a person has with him in any public place any knife or any other article which has a blade or which is sharply pointed, he shall be guilty of an offence.

To the letter of the law this also include a pencil sharpener since it has a blade...

And also 99% of good bought in retail stores due to the security tag contanting a metal blade in them {if you don't believe me open one up and have a look for yourself}.......

source

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Its mad really. I can wander around with a hurley or a lump hammer no bothers, but try carrying around a small blade and see what happens.

actually no, that's covered too,

(4) Where a person, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the onus of proving which shall lie on him), has with him in any public place—


( a ) any flick-knife, or


( b ) any other article whatsoever made or adapted for use for causing injury to or incapacitating a person,


he shall be guilty of an offence.

MarkR

If [SIZE=-1]MacGyver had it, coupled with some chewing gum and a paperclip, then yes.
[/SIZE]

It wasn't me!

foinse wrote: »

actually no, that's covered too,

That only applies if it's made specifically for the purpose of doing harm or adapted for such, which doesn't fit. Being capable of being used for something and being made to do it are two different things. It's semantics really, but that's how it would go.

BaconZombie

It wasn't me! wrote: »

That only applies if it's made specifically for the purpose of doing harm or adapted for such, which doesn't fit. Being capable of being used for something and being made to do it are two different things. It's semantics really, but that's how it would go.

No when your talking about "tools", there is alot of case of security software tools that were created for testing system and are not label as "Hacking" tools and will get you arrested in Germany or the UK now.

It wasn't me!

Didn't know that, but either way, this is Irish law here, and how's interpreted. There's the commonsense part, about not having something you don't have an explanation for, there's the fact that if the guards want to make your life more interesting, they will do it anyway, and there's the fact that if you can interpret the law absolutely literally, it shouldn't be too much of a problem anyway unless you're some fiendish scumbag.

SimpleSam06

foinse wrote: »

actually no, that's covered too,

Eh maybe I'm on me way to a hurling practice or working on the extension in the house. Neither a lump hammer or a hurley are specifically adapted to cause harm. You can do a fair bit of damage with a boot if you should feel the need. Next they'll be banning fists and bags above a certain weight. Sigh.

Still, I prefer Ireland to places like Texas, although the Swiss are all very heavily armed (IG Strumgeweher (assault rifle) model 1990 (Stgw 90), a selective fire, fully automatic 5.6 mm rifle with folding skeleton stock in every home) and they seem to get by alright.

andyl222

BOFH_139 wrote: »

To the letter of the law this also include a pencil sharpener since it has a blade...

And also 99% of good bought in retail stores due to the security tag contanting a metal blade in them {if you don't believe me open one up and have a look for yourself}.......

what?!!! They don't have blades in them...I've worked in numerous shops and have taken apart many security tags, they don't contain blades,by any definition of the word. The have a pin, and some ball bearings,some plastic and rubber, only mcguiver could make a weapon from one.

Kur4mA

A firearm has to shoot out projectiles so it would be pretty stupid for the Gards to called a knife a firearm.

conor2007

no , was just sitting on the quays readin the paper waitin for a friend

ive got awful talking to by the guards for a hurl being carried by me

the knife , was o problem , shows how smart the gardai are

Nevyn

(4) Where a person, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the onus of proving which shall lie on him), has with him in any public place—


( a ) any flick-knife, or


( b ) any other article whatsoever made or adapted for use for causing injury to or incapacitating a person,


he shall be guilty of an offence.

Oh Noes you mean I can't carry a paper clip or a thumb tack, pen/pencil, nail file on me ?

Dyr

if you have lawful authority or reasonable excuse to do so, you're in the clear

Trojan911

Conor108 wrote: »

Only I heard someone got arrested for possesion of a firearm and it was a swiss army knife

This is the definition of a firearm. A knife, as per say, is not a firearm. You were misinformed.

Dr_Teeth

Basically it comes down to context. If they stop you and you're carrying an object that could be used as a weapon, they will have to decide whether it actually is a weapon or not.

To do this they'll question you as to whether or not you have a lawful reason for carrying the object. An artist or carpenter going about their business with a stanley knife would be fine. A scumbag carrying one in a nightclub at 2am would be in trouble.

Blisterman

I don't know why they don't make Swiss Army knives, without the knife attachment.
Just with nail file, cork screw, bottle opener, screwdriver etc.

Then you could carry it on planes, no problem.

How often do you actually use the knife?

Dyr

I think they do make them like that. Still dont think you'll be let on a plane with it.

o1s1n

Blisterman wrote: »

I don't know why they don't make Swiss Army knives, without the knife attachment.
Just with nail file, cork screw, bottle opener, screwdriver etc.

Then you could carry it on planes, no problem.

How often do you actually use the knife?

You can't bring tools on planes either. So most of the other attachments wouldn't be allowed.

Recently I saw a guy with a wrench which had been gold plated and made into a bracelet refused onto a flight unless he put it in his luggage. As it was a 'tool'.

Of course the luggage had gone through at this point.

Boggles

conor2007 wrote: »

no , was just sitting on the quays readin the paper waitin for a friend

ive got awful talking to by the guards for a hurl being carried by me

the knife , was o problem , shows how smart the gardai are

The guards gave out to you for carrying a hurley?

rubadub

Bambi wrote: »

AFAIK You can pretty much be arrested for possesion of anything as a weapon, you have to have to have "good cause" or "good reason" to be carrying the item(for use in work etc).

You would think so, but of course you can get an arsehole garda like this lad did (though it was on open display- bad idea)

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055219616


As I said in other threads just get your dagger, paint a few onions & tomatoes on it, stick it in a dunnes bag with a receipt saying "kitchen utility knife", and the ignorant arseholes will probably let you stroll on.

The laws mean nothing much anyway, most gardai are ignorant of the laws they are meant to enforce, and thanks to the public order act you can be done for anything.

Recently some car magazine was giving away a little tool kit like a swiss army, no blades though. It was taken out of sale from duty free shop. People were going through and then buying it unchecked, stupid anyway, I cant go on a plane with a bottle of water, or a allen key, yet I can buy a litre bottle of vodka, smash it and glass the airhostess's/pilots face to ribbons. great logic....

coyote6

So what if I whack a skanger over the head with my umbrella in self defence?

source

A hurley would become "adapted" for use as a weapon if say you replace the sliotar with say a part of someones body.

It is no longer a sporting implement, it is now a weapon capable of inflicting blunt force trauma onto a victim.

oh and Kyub the Gardai don't write the law they only enforce it :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:, It's politicians who decided to make the "Firearms and offensive weapons Act" and they are the ones who decided to include knives in a firearms act you know the whole 2 birds one stone thing.

source

coyote6 wrote: »

So what if I whack a skanger over the head with my umbrella in self defence?

self defence is only self defence if reasonable force is used, ie. if said skanger came up to you and started insulting you and you whacked him with your umbrella then you have assaulted him,

whereas if the skanger came at you with a knife and you hit him on the head then you have a good defence for claiming self defence.

The law is not always black and white, and is open to interpretation, your scenario would really depend on what way the judge interprets the law, besides your scenario is flawed, if the skanger is as you say a skanger and has done something to warrant you defending yourself, he is not going to run to the Gardai to make a formal complaint. So unless you hit him in the presence of a Garda(You'd want to be fairly thick to do that) or someone else complains about the incident, you'd pretty much be in the clear.

Sam Vimes

Blisterman wrote: »

I don't know why they don't make Swiss Army knives, without the knife attachment.
Just with nail file, cork screw, bottle opener, screwdriver etc.

Then you could carry it on planes, no problem.

How often do you actually use the knife?

tbh, a corkscrew can do just as much damage as a knife

Capt'n Midnight

Bambi wrote: »

thats some of the legislation there, like i said any blade in a public place can be deemed an offence. Theres other legislation too but i cant find it. It includes lists of other banned weapons including a "death star"

carrying a death star as a concealed weapon

Capt'n Midnight

knives are firearms here just like in the US algorithms are classified as munitions

Boggles

coyote6 wrote: »

So what if I whack a skanger over the head with my umbrella in self defence?

You look kewl and start singing that well know Rihana hit!

Reku

kyub wrote: »

A firearm has to shoot out projectiles so it would be pretty stupid for the Gards to called a knife a firearm.

Legally, technically, linguistically, or any other lly type definition you want to go by they are not, but they are lunmped in under the Firearms and Offensive Weapons acts. I guess "Offensive" is just too long a word for some gardai to try pronounce.:rolleyes:

rubadub wrote: »

The laws mean nothing much anyway, most gardai are ignorant of the laws they are meant to enforce, and thanks to the public order act you can be done for anything.

Unfortunately true....:( There's the law, and then there's the ignorent feck who feels like pushing someone around because he can's interpretation of what little he knows of the law.

rubadub wrote: »

Recently some car magazine was giving away a little tool kit like a swiss army, no blades though. It was taken out of sale from duty free shop. People were going through and then buying it unchecked, stupid anyway, I cant go on a plane with a bottle of water, or a allen key, yet I can buy a litre bottle of vodka, smash it and glass the airhostess's/pilots face to ribbons. great logic....

Sure a while back Argos was selling dashboard mounting radar detectors to warn you when you're being targetted by a speed camera/checkpoint. Pretty sure that they are in fact illegal to use though, so you could buy them, but don't let the gardai find you with it in your car.

weeder

yes
for it to be a firearm it has to expell a projectile through a barrel at a muzzle energy higher than a joule however if its known as the firearms and offensive weapons act thenyou have an offensive weapon but its still no firearm

Reku

weeder wrote: »

yes
for it to be a firearm it has to expell a projectile through a barrel at a muzzle energy higher than a joule however if its known as the firearms and offensive weapons act thenyou have an offensive weapon but its still no firearm

Doesn't need to have a barrel (e.g. a crossbow), other than that correct.