Partner's 'RED MIST' - how much is too much?

LegacyUser

Question for those of you in relationships, how 'robust' do your arguments get?

Last Saturday (afternoon – no drink taken) I was roared at by my husband for over an hour, had a finger pointed close to my face and was prodded hard between the shoulder blades. I was told I was a bitch, he wondered how I he had ended up with someone like me (we are married 2 and a half years) etc. basically lots of ranting and raving along those lines – you get the picture. This is while I am kneeling in front of our six month old son who is on the changing mat in front of me. Obviously the baby is too young to know what is going on – he was smiling and laughing at my husband (which broke my heart), my husband didn’t even seem to notice he was there. I meanwhile am saying as calmly as I can ‘do we have to do this in front of the baby’, ‘this is not right’ ‘calm down’ etc. to no avail. The reason for this outburst was a minor argument we had while out shopping.

By Sunday evening my husband seems to be completely ashamed, and guilty about his behaviour.

He has behaved like this I’d say about 4 times since I’ve been in a relationship with him. The first time was at a friends wedding before we were married he was in a jealous rage about some guy he thought was chatting me up. Made a bit of a show of me I thought, but we had drink taken and I just put it down to that.

Another time it was weird – it occurred after we were involved in a very minor car accident – he tipped into the back of another guys car, they exchanged details, no harm done. When we got home however he started roaring at me with me backed against a wall. Calling me various names etc. etc.

It’s like sometimes he loses complete control – the rest of the time he is great. These rages only happen maybe 3 times a year or less. I’ve also seen his sister go into these rages (not directed at me), so I wondered if it was something to do with the way he was brought up…. I feel as well (not to make excuses for him) but he seems to be having difficulty adapting to fatherhood although he loves the baby. Also, his father is in a nursing home and i know that this is hard for him. But does it excuse this behaviour??

My question is: What do I do? I have a horrible feeling that it will happen again and I DO NOT want my child growing up to witness this behaviour. The thoughts of that make me feel sick. At the moment I am barely speaking to him and he is trying to do all the right things.

So... help me please = should I insist he goes to counselling? – Does counselling help in these matters?

ziedth

Casper73 wrote: »

I DO NOT want my child growing up to witness this behaviour.

i feel this answers your own question, insist on that he gets help imo you cant take any sort of risk with a baby in the picture.

Trinity

It sounds like he needs anger manangement. Thats abusive behaviour, the operative word being abusive no matter how sporadic.

FOr the sake of you and your baby and at the risk of sounding dramatic, I would not let this go. Insist he gets help. If he cannot control himself who is to say he will not lash out and hit you?

Myself and my mother in law were just now discussing how easily 'accidents' happen when you are not in control - we were discussing not hitting children and why it is especially dangerous when you are angry or in a temper. Its the same thing, he gives you a smack, you fall, hit your head off the fireplace. I know thats OTT but its just an example. Plus, do you want him speaking to your child like that, shouting in his face and pointing at him when he is a little older?

Get him help, professional help. I dont think a chat with you will change this situation. If he wont agree its up to you to give the ultimatum i guess. You dont have to put up with that no matter how good he is after the row. Its not acceptable behaviour.

Nevyn

Counselling and anger management esp as he seems to wait until you are some where he can take it out on you with verbal, mental and emotional abuse and how long before a poke becomes something more ?

rebelpixie

agree with other posters; plus children pick up on these things. your baby may be young, but you wouldn't know the effect it may have on him long-term. take care.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the replies folks, yeah, funny thing is I used to think that he was out of control during these episodes but now I realise that he is actually completely in control in a weird way. By that I mean if one of his mates or his sister rang in the middle of it he would be capable of being perfectly civil.

He regularly talks about our child going to 'the right school' and having the opportunities that he didn't have! During this row I'm trying to leave the room with the baby and he follows me around the house shouting.

I'd love to know though if counselling really works for this sort of problem, what's the best way to find an appropriate counseller? I'd imagine that the best way is to get to the root of the problem, I feel the 'take deep breaths' approach is of much use.

dazberry

Casper73 wrote: »

These rages only happen maybe 3 times a year or less. I’ve also seen his sister go into these rages (not directed at me), so I wondered if it was something to do with the way he was brought up….

Firstly I would be of the opinion that that is 3 times too many. We all get annoyed from time to time - but rage is not good.

Secondly my father was like that (and at least one of his brothers too - his parents were lovely so I don't know where it came from - his sister said he was always moody), and my mother spent years walking on egg shells just to keep that peace - that is no way to live your life.

Thirdly I learned the exact same behaviour from my father - only for the grace of God that as a teenager I saw myself in a mirror having a rage and just burst out laughing with my screwed up angry red face - looked ridiculous - all over nothing of consequence.

So I can't give you an answer as to where to take this - but please don't indulge his behaviour because its only 3 times a year and he's great the rest of the time. If it goes unchecked it may get worse.

D.

dudara

Two things come to mind. Firstly, this cannot carry on in front of your child. Secondly, what if his anger escalates, as it probably inevitably will.

He does need to seek anger management treatment as soon as is possible.

jdivision

Is he the type of person who fails to say anything when he's annoyed, who bottles it up. I know that I used to store up all my anger and then eventually would completely lose the head over something comparatively minor. now when I'm annoyed i say it, i get it out of my system. I haven't lost the head since I started doing this.

Toots

OP, I'd echo what is being said by other posters here, something needs to be done before this escalates further. It's a very unhealthy atmosphere for a child, and for you. Don't leave it until he hits you, and from the sound of it, it's likely that this will happen sooner or later. Believe me I've had some blazing rows with my OH, but the worst of them wouldn't be a patch on this.

Have you ever seen him have one of these 'rages' at someone else, or has it just been you? He needs to seek treatment for these anger issues, and if I were you I'd insist he does it. (But be careful how you approach this, do it calmly and rationally, don't go on the offensive as this may make him angry again) I know you say this happens only 3 times a year roughly, but you can't run the risk of this becoming more frequent. Counselling would at least be a start, I tried google-ing and came up with the following:

www.accord.ie

www.mrcs.ie (marriage and relationship counselling, it may be beneficial for you to attend something together in addition to him seeking help with anger management)

www.acpartnership.ie may be able to point you in the direction of an anger management counsellor. Or you could contact your GP, who perhaps could refer you to someone, and would be able to offer you some practical advice and support for yourself and your baby.

WhiteWashMan

Thaedydal wrote: »

Counselling and anger management esp as he seems to wait until you are some where he can take it out on you with verbal, mental and emotional abuse and how long before a poke becomes something more ?

I agree, but I would also add that even a poke is a step too far.
The finger in the face is extremely agressive behaviour.

We all have fights with our partners.

But at no stage do I think that sort of behaviour is at all tolerable, even only 3 times a year.

jellie

Personally I wouldnt be comfortable with a partner who has such rages. whatever about the odd shouting at each other, id be worried about the hands in your face, prodding you in the back. For me id feel thats 1 step away from hitting & i would be afraid of someone who thinks its ok to use that sort of physical contact/gestures in an argument.

So what if hes completely ashamed? the next time he might have go bit further & have more than shame to be worried about. I dont think its something you should leave. what if you do nothing & next time its your child getting poked & shoved?

Overheal

ni[ it in the bud OP - one day its prodding, then down the line you find yourself thrown against a wall with a fractured jawline or worse.

3 times a year is trouble. Once every 3 years would even merit a look - but thats just disaster waiting to happen.

I've seen too much violence OP and even commited a small bit in my youth - it should never, ever be tolerated. Get him help.

LegacyUser

Thanks people, you've hardened my resolve not to let this go - if anything for the sake of our child. As someone pointed out I do feel that even at a young age they pick up on things - he was very unsettled for the rest of the weekend after that incident.

In answer to another posters question, no, my husband doesn't seem to bottle his anger up, we have normal everyday disagreements where we vent minor irritations. Most of the time we get on grand, but no, I've never seen him have these 'rages' at someone else. Isn't the wife the easiest target?

With his father in a nursing home he has to deal with his sisters on a regular basis. He's experienced hassle with them before, so listening to him on the phone to them, he sounds like he's desperately trying to please and not upset the apple cart there. So... I don't know whether that may be causing him unresolved frustration.

Anyway as people pointed out he shouldn't be taking it out on me either way. Whether he will agree to go to counselling is another issue.

denhaagenite

My father used to behave like this every second day when he was drinking, but it all but disappeared when he gave up 10 years ago.
Until he broke my 15 year old sister's nose last year- she never pressed charges and still lives with my parents but I worry about this every single day. As far as I know he's been to counselling and there are mitigating factors ie a conniving mother but I don't think he's ever going to change really.
There are Irish men all over the world with this trait in them, the lesson I've carried with me from childhood is to stay away from them.
Look after yourself and your son first and foremost.

Marksie

Casper73 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies folks, yeah, funny thing is I used to think that he was out of control during these episodes but now I realise that he is actually completely in control in a weird way. By that I mean if one of his mates or his sister rang in the middle of it he would be capable of being perfectly civil.
.

I have seen this behaviour before in a family member. Consciously upsetting everyone else then turning in the style when other non family memebrs arrive in.
Screaming so loudly that people get nosebleeds then having a fit of guilt hwen they are told where to go.

They are not out of control, they know they are doing it and they are consciously doing it.

The only way to stop this type of behaviour is to not facilitate it (though it may be a default option for them)

Casper73 wrote: »

Another time it was weird – it occurred after we were involved in a very minor car accident – he tipped into the back of another guys car, they exchanged details, no harm done. When we got home however he started roaring at me with me backed against a wall. Calling me various names etc. etc.

This is what lead me to the conclusion above. Taking out his frustration on someone else because he can.

Casper73 wrote: »

Isn't the wife the easiest target?

Nail, Head.

But i will go further:
As i have said i have seen this behaviour before.

It will not be only you who will be the target. It will be your child as well, not physically maybe, but both of you will cop it time and again.

Bear that in mind if your resolve begins to weaken

Dizzyblonde

Please don't wait until he hurts you or your child, insist on anger management treatment now, or counselling. If you put up with this behaviour and keep forgiving him then it'll never end.
If necessary live apart until he proves that he can stop this. And if he either won't, or if it doesn't work, then you've got to ask yourself if this is the kind of life you want for yourself and your child. Also, confide in a close friend or family member - don't keep this secret because you need support.
Good luck.

Aura

It's very easy for us all to tell you not to stand for such behaviour and indeed you shouldn't but you love and are married to this man. I think the best thing you can do is calmly sit him down and tell him you're concerned about him and these episodes and you'd like to work through them with him and the help of a counsellor. If he does not accept your help or entertain the thought of seeing someone then it really is decision time for you in my opinion because three times a year is far too often and does not bode well for a future spent together.

missmatty

Maybe he's got used to you letting him do it? Shouting is one thing but poking and aggressive gestures are scary especially with a babs in the house. A fright would do him good if he doesn't listen to suggestions about counselling, or attempts to talk reasonably. The next time it happens I would quickly pack a small bag, take baby and walk out (temporarily at least). That might make him think about the consequences of his actions and what he stands to lose if he continues like this.

Oryx

OP, I know you dont think this is something to walk out over, and right now it isnt, but I think you need to come to terms inside your head that if it happens again you must walk out. (Even temporarily) Ive seen this kind of behaviour escalate into violence. Even if it doesnt in your case, these rages may become more of a regular fixture as your other half sees he can get away with them. The pain of tiptoeing around in order to avoid upsetting your partner is a living hell. Please get tough now so your partner realises he needs to change in order to keep you.

IvyTheTerrible

OP, I'd echo the other poster's sentiments - it shouldn't happen in front of your baby and he needs counselling or professional help.

My SO's father was like this when he was young. He got help and is better now but my SO says that he, his mother and his siblings were always afraid when he was younger. The So's older brother goes to counselling now because of it. So it will affect your child and yourself if it continues.

Best of luck and best wishes.