Looking to become a stronger swimmer.

Funkstard

Hello everyone, hope you can help me out a bit. First time using this forum.

I've always swam often enough (relatively speaking, swim a few times during the winter and nearly every day if I can during the summer), but I've always been a weak swimmer. Biggest problem is no stamina, I get tired really fast and my muscles give up.

I'm incredibly lucky in that I live by the sea in Dublin, and go to college in UL where the somewhat useful 50m pool is a few minutes walk away, so I have swimming facilities on hand to me constantly.

Last semester in UL I began swimming a bit, but got disheartened after I nearly fainted (!) after using the pool for the first time. Did 4/5 lengths of it if I remember doing the front crawl, became a flailing mess towards the end and flopped out of the water.

One of my classmates is a lifeguard and teaches swimming so since then she's given me a few tips on technique; doing the catch-up drill, using my legs properly etc. I'd never copped on to breath out when underwater either apparently! One of my biggest problems has always been not being able to see in front of me and then bashing into people coming towards me/straying off course.

To become a stronger swimmer is it just a matter of effort, slowly increasing the lengths I can do each time I practice? I'm heading back down to UL in a few days to start back again, and hopefully I can get into a routine of swimming a few times a week.

Any tips for me?

Cheers.

AngryHippie

Its not just about swimming more or swimming harder. Any aerobic excercise you do will be of some benefit. It sounds to me as if your stroke efficiency is the problem. To improve this you need to work on drills. Catch up is a good one, so is high-elbow (zipper drill) and if you find your arms tire easily, then sculling is a must.
You'll have to be pretty patient with it. when you swim, do a length at a time and take a rest, then build that up to two when you're feeling fresh after one. Try a few treading water drills if you are able, they do help too.

hunnymonster

it does sound like you're putting lots of effort in with less return than you might like. When you swim front crawl, really concentrate on "gliding" through the water, keep your body very long. This will make swimming way, way easier. I'm sure the UL library must have total immersion swimming books. While I'm not suggesting they are the only way to learn to swim better, I like the way their introductory sections really concentrate on getting you aware of where you are in the water.

Andrewf20

I was in similar shoes 3 weeks ago. I couldnt do more than about 6 lengths, but then I did 55 lengths non stop (front crawl) on Monday and Tuesday, although I was slow (43secs average to do 25m). I cant believe it. I read a few tips in a triatalon book:

Heres what helped me:
- Dont lift you head out of the water ever. To breath, rotate you torso and head to the side to almost just have you face about the water.
- Take a breath on each cycle of the arms. For me, I take in a breath when my right arm comes out of the water. I breath out under water. I only breath in with my head rotated to the right as I feel more comfortable this way.
- Find a nice cruising speed. Dont go hell for leather.
- One thing I learned myself was that when doing the front crawl make sure you rotate you torso sufficiently so that you arm comes fully out of the water before it has to sweep forward down back into the water. It reduces drag, and stops a big wave of water hitting you face when you are possibly about to take a breath.
- Get a good set of goggles. I bought a set of Zogg goggles in the Argos catalogue for 18uro. They dont steam up and they have never leaked on me, so no need to keep stopping and dealing with that agro. They are brill.

Im still lousy at using my legs. I just dont seem to get much benefit for all the concentration in moving them. Having said that I do try to kick them from time to time to keep my body parallel to the surface.

drollab

technique is critical. Focus on high elbows and make sure your fingers enter the water first (I see some people and their wrist goes first!!)

Try relax in the water and glide. Its under the water where you do most work make sure and finish your stroke, your hand should go back brushing your upper leg.

I agree with an earlier post, certainly rest after each lenght until you are stronger cos you cannot have a good technique when you are tired.

You could buy one of the Total Emersion DVD's on Ebay or amazon.

Andrewf20

One thing that was never made clear to me (although its probably what drollab is refering to in the post above), but has since knocked a full 5mins off my 30x25m length times is the following:

When doing the front crawl, when your hands are doing the sweep back motion under water to push you forward, make sure that you dont do a big sweeping arc of the arms, instead have a 90 degree kink in the arm at the elbow, which should place considerably less load on the upper arms.

Watch this video to see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwvtuHya40g

Also see my crumby drawing as well to explain it.

Good luck!

BendiBus

Andrewf20 wrote: »

Also see my crumby drawing as well to explain it.

Having 9 arms must also give you a great advantage

There are videos of some good drills & techniques on this site

http://www.goswim.tv/pages/5/videos.html

Andrewf20

:d

Canis Lupus

BendiBus wrote: »

Having 9 arms must also give you a great advantage

There are videos of some good drills & techniques on this site

http://www.goswim.tv/pages/5/videos.html

Roffle

mackerooney

AngryHippie wrote: »

Its not just about swimming more or swimming harder. Any aerobic excercise you do will be of some benefit. It sounds to me as if your stroke efficiency is the problem. To improve this you need to work on drills. Catch up is a good one, so is high-elbow (zipper drill) and if you find your arms tire easily, then sculling is a must.
You'll have to be pretty patient with it. when you swim, do a length at a time and take a rest, then build that up to two when you're feeling fresh after one. Try a few treading water drills if you are able, they do help too.

What is "catch up", "zipper" and "sculling"? Any good drills to improve my kick?

KStaford

What is "catch up", "zipper" and "sculling"?

ditto, I'd love to know what these are too

DolphinMasters

http://www.wsumastersswimming.org/workouts/long-axis-drills.html

Check this site out, it explains a bit about drills for Freestyle and Backstroke.

Some of them are really good - I use the closed fist one with the kids I coach (all under 12's) and they are better than me now at it LOL!

cregser

mackerooney wrote: »

What is "catch up", "zipper" and "sculling"? Any good drills to improve my kick?

Drills can be tough when you don't have the technique. But that's the idea. You'll know you're improving when the drills are easy. To improve leg kick, there's nothing like legs only. Use a float to rest your arms on and to let you breath. Another good way is orientate your body vertically in deep water and try to keep your head above water with just a normal freestlye/backcrawl leg kick. I always hated that one!

Sculling - swimming with no arms or legs! It's all in the wrist (well..., forearms). Basically you lie on your back with your legs streched out and your elbows by your side and use wrists movements of your hands to keep you afloat. It's used for giving you a "feel" for the water. When you get the hang of it you can swim feet-first, head-first and circular just by lying on your back! You can then apply that to all 4 strokes.

Treading - An easier version of sculling is just to keep your head perpendicularly above water using an "egg beater" kick (like an alternating breastroke kick) and sculling with arms. Then try it with legs only and arms only.

Catch-up - in this drill you always have one arm streched out in front. Only move it when the other arm catches-up. It forces you to get the most out of every stroke. At first it can be very hard to keep the resting arm up and prevent it from dropping. But keep trying! Focus on the final push-through of the stroke and keeping yourself streamlined.

Zipper - Sometimes used in conjuction with catch-up. When your underwater stroke is finished and you're returning the arm to front of your head, run your thumb along your body. It forces you to keep your elbow high in the air and also to roll you body side to side with each stoke. I always found this one easy. It's good for getting rid of the unnecessary flick some people have at the end of their stroke.

Arms only - try swimming without any leg kick. This will give you an appretiation for much you need the leg kick to roll from side to side.

Count your strokes - I do 11/12 freestyle strokes per 25m (about 25/26 per 50m). I know I'm tired or not concentrating when I'm doing 13/14 per lenght. Find your own lowest stroke count and try to keep it there (or better it).

KStaford

jeez

after a summer of lessons at Carrick on Shannon pool and swimming 2-3 nights a week, I can barely (BARELY) manage 4 lengths before I am dying. I take about 30-32 strokes per length.

After reading the above and many other swim forums, I feel so frustrated. What can I be doing so wrong.
My fitness just does not seem to be coming, I spent the last 10 week sin lessons so my technique shouldn't be that bad (I think).

I practice leg kicks with the kick board, my leg kick are weak, I barely move with just leg kicks (yes I am keeping my knees straight)

I'm getting fed up at this stage, can anyone offer any advice to get me out of this rut?

cregser

Trojan Swim club had this motto:
"Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect".

At 32 strokes per lenght I'd be knackered too! You're probably a lot fitter than you give yourself credit for. I seems to me that your technique may be the issue.

I do 11/12 strokes because I swam nearly 10 years competitively. That's a lot of time spent doing drills, becoming comfortable and relaxed in the water, and doing punishing sets that became so much harder when technique wasn't perfect. I'm also sorry to say that a lot of time was spent listening to bad coaches too - teaching bad technique.

You may be a little flustered by the amount you need to think about. Try to concentrate on 1 or 2 things at a time. Use the drills until the technique becomes second nature. It does take a long time before that happens. But like riding a bike - once you learn you don't forget.

I gave up swimming completely for a few years and jumped back in the pool this summer without much bother. I was pretty unfit but my technique carried me through.

Another thing - if your leg kick is weak (mine always was too) and you feel that really holds you back, then buy some fins. I used to use Zoomers but they don't seem to be around anymore.

KStaford

cregser

Thanks for the reply. You are right about one thing, I am trying to juggle so many tips / instructions / methods in my head. I need to simplify.
I find it hard to understand textual / descriptive instructions sometimes. I would dearly love to spend time with a good coach. Failing that I find vieo very helpful.

If I were to start off with say three things that I should work on in order to get more length out of my stroke, what would you advise ?

Would you rate this video at all?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUULNJEdKU8

cregser

From that video, I do like the first drill. It really helped my stroke.

I suppose the second one would teach you rythym and also to use force when pulling back. But I don't really get the point of the last one. The flick is a bad thing. Don't know why you'd coach that into people.

Here's another good drill:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzWzZb1niIQ&feature=related
It's like the zipper drill except you do it reeeally slow. It gives you time to concentrate on your stroke. It emphasises rolling from side to side and it works your leg kick aswell.

Zoomers are still sold apparantly. Go for blue ones if you are getting them. They let you concentrate on your arms because legs suddenly seem more powerful. But the zoomers do take getting used to.

KStaford

re - my video link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUULNJEdKU8
and the first drill that you like. Is she pausing on only one arm? It seems that she is pausing her right arm but not her left and the instructor seems to be doing the same altjough they cut back and forth so its hard to be sure.

secondly, the Popov drill that you linked
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzWzZb1niIQ&feature=related
What is he doing under the water? (oooh er missus:)), I cannot see and there is no sound

Many thanks

cregser

KStaford wrote: »

re - my video link
Is she pausing on only one arm? It seems that she is pausing her right arm but not her left and the instructor seems to be doing the same altjough they cut back and forth so its hard to be sure.

Nope she's pausing both arms when they reach her head in the recovery phase. If you want you can do for one arm on one length and the next arm on the next (pool) length. When you get the hang of it, do both arms. I don't know if it'll do anything for you, but it was a revelation for me. I was doing something funny at the front end of my stroke and only had to do this drill for a little while to correct it (for competitive swimmers little while is a few weeks usually you drills for months).

KStaford wrote: »

secondly, the Popov drill that you linked
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzWzZb1niIQ&feature=related
What is he doing under the water? (oooh er missus:)), I cannot see and there is no sound

Many thanks

One leg kick drill is to do leg kick on your side with one arm stretched out. This drill is basically that with some slow zipper thrown in to make you roll from side to side. So nothing special is happening underwater except a lot of leg kick (but it's easier on the legs that just a leg kick drill). In the video, his stretched out arm is kinda waving, but you're not supposed to do that. It's a sign of bad balance (I don't think that's Alexander Popov in the water!).

Sorry for delayed reply, been busy

cregser

Here's something I stumbled across:
http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2008/08/13/total-immersion-how-i-learned-to-swim-effortlessly-in-10-days-and-you-can-too/#more-435

It's about some guy who went from hating swimming because it made him so tired, to using it for moving meditation after he got the technique down. There's some good youtibe videos on that page too.

Steyr

Andrewf20 wrote: »

Watch this video to see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwvtuHya40g

Also see my crumby drawing as well to explain it.

Good luck!

Excellent Video, OP Study that its what i do too and always exhale under the water. As my arms enter the water like in the video i tend to pull them back out of the water as strong as i can so im basically pulling the water out of my way, how many storkes can you do before you need to breathe? If your breathing at every second stroke you should maybe try every third stroke it will be tough at the start but its worth it and also you will get into the routine of turning on a different side of your body to breathe I breathe every third stroke, also ive found that a gym session once a week on weights that are not too heavy seems to be very good too, oh and also stretch before you swim.

MCOS

Andrewf20 wrote: »

One thing that was never made clear to me (although its probably what drollab is refering to in the post above), but has since knocked a full 5mins off my 30x25m length times is the following:

When doing the front crawl, when your hands are doing the sweep back motion under water to push you forward, make sure that you dont do a big sweeping arc of the arms, instead have a 90 degree kink in the arm at the elbow, which should place considerably less load on the upper arms.

Watch this video to see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwvtuHya40g

Also see my crumby drawing as well to explain it.

Good luck!

Just came across this. Had a 'penny drop moment' when I looked at your effective crumby drawing:D:D:D

Thank you!

Hrududu

I added some 'catch up' and 'bendy arm' drills last night and noticed the difference. I felt like I'd given myself a proper workout. I usually just truck up and down the lanes without doing any type of drills.

Poloman

Hey Cregser.. I was with limerick swimming club for 10 years. When did you give up? I gave up in i think '94. Just wondering if i know ya.

KStaford

cregser wrote: »

Here's something I stumbled across:
http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2008/08/13/total-immersion-how-i-learned-to-swim-effortlessly-in-10-days-and-you-can-too/#more-435

It's about some guy who went from hating swimming because it made him so tired, to using it for moving meditation after he got the technique down. There's some good youtibe videos on that page too.

cregser
is this legit? it does kinda reek of late night informercial... has anyone bought this dvd?