Eddies selection policy

figs86

Just thinking to myself that id bet heavily that eddie will - unfortunately - opt for rory best over jackman against italy and for pretty much any other game

is it just me or has eddie become absolutely terrified of taking a risk?

with him at the helm we fielded the least number of players from any squad at the world cup

barring seriously poor performances or incredibly obvious progression (i.e. replacing stringer with boss and subsequently reddan) the selection process has proved predictable - making it a bit easier for the opposition straight away

imagine youre the video analyst for any of our 6 nations counterparts - you have reams and reams of info on the likes of ROG, Darcy, O driscoll, hayes, horan, dempsey, leamy, easterby and how they play in a green shirt

whilst lack of options ties his hands in certain areas - i.e. prop (where selcting bryan young and not givin him a look in and ignoring peter bracken while he won european cup with wasps dont help), picking the same centres under his command for years has left them tired and uncreative when they play for their country

never do you see drico trying his ''pass to himself'' such as in ''the last stand'' against ulster last year when he plays for his country. he's captain of both so you cant say he feels more responsible and thus less creative

giving new caps a chance (and recalling others from the wilderness) has worked well for others such as james hook for wales (who was only in his first year as pro when made wales outhalf), recalling shaw for england, strettle for england, toby flood, cipriani, and now lievremont has given the french squad an incredible shake up

Anyone else think a eddie needs to be a little more creative/aggressive with his selections?

[Jackass]

Yeah big time. You know players who are doing it in HC/England/ML shouold be given the oppertunity to step up. Jackman is the best form hooker at the moment, I think Fitzgerald and Kearney are ready to play international rugby and I'd have one of them in at 11. We don't need to wait until they've been first team players for 2 or 3 years at club/provincial level and are too old for any of the youth teams..it's stupid, we're the only country who wont EVER put talent ahead of experience...and all the experince in the world wont make an average player better than a naturally gifted player with little experience.

The team is jaded and on its last legs and I don;t think Eddie has anymore ideas...personally, although he's done a decent job, I think this should be his last 6Nations and we should start a new coach with new ideas and blooding new players to try and get the dept of squad we need for the next world cup and also a lot of these players are all around the same age (hitting 30's) so if new blood isn't in, we could litterally lose three quarters of our internaional sqaud to retirement in the space of a couple of seasons!! (or immediatly after the next world cup if they all stick around).

Shan75

Afraid it doesn't matter what we think regarding his ridiculous selection policy as he will never change and that is why he needs to be removed from his position.Unfortunately this also will not happen as the IRFU are as incompetent as Eddie.The only way he will be gotten rid of is if he delivers the wooden spoon.This is unlikely though because even if we play as badly as we did in the world cup we will probably still manage a couple of victories.I don't think he has become afraid of taking a risk--He has always been like that although you could argue it's a risk to depend on a losing team with some unnecessary sub-standard or over the hill players to get your "train back on the tracks"

toomevara

Eddies selection policy is based on two things, loyalty and obedience...he's much like the SS like that...

Sandwich

toomevara wrote: »

Eddies selection policy is based on two things, loyalty and obedience...he's much like the SS like that...

Its the pact he makes with anyone who gets to 5 caps (real ones not injury time phonies or Japan) : "I acknowledge that Fast Edward is the Supreme Commander and is to be obeyed completely, never questioned, or never criticised. In return for this undying loyalty I give thanks and praise to Fast Edward for giving me this position in the team, knowing I will never be dropped, only passing on the batten to an apprentice when I die or retire." (bow head and all chant 'Heil Eddie, Heil Eddie, Heil Eddie....' until he takes his leave of you).

Podge_irl

figs86 wrote: »

is it just me or has eddie become absolutely terrified of taking a risk?

I don't think that's the problem. Keeping the same team (largely) is a risk in and of itself and makes it less likely for him to get away with poor performances. I think he is just too loyal to certain players. I recall when asked why he didn't change his team between the 2 NZ tests and the Aussie one he replied "who would you drop?". That is simply the wrong way to think about it. He views a squad the same way he views the bench - there for injuries and that's pretty much it.

He is capable of changing the team around - he did it between the 2005 and 2006 Six Nations. He just won't do it "mid-cycle" or while he feels the team can still do well.

MarVeL

Bit over the top with the Nazi references don't ye think. I don't agree with the selection policies and I'm hoping for at least 2 or 3 changes but the personal references are a bit much/

toomevara

MarVeL wrote: »

Bit over the top with the Nazi references don't ye think. /

Not really, as it's all firmly tongue in cheek...anyway what I meant to say was the KGB, my bad...I think stalinist references more apt for O'Sullianevski's reign of terror.....

Ulstermell0

Sandwich wrote: »

Its the pact he makes with anyone who gets to 5 caps (real ones not injury time phonies or Japan) : "I acknowledge that Fast Edward is the Supreme Commander and is to be obeyed completely, never questioned, or never criticised. In return for this undying loyalty I give thanks and praise to Fast Edward for giving me this position in the team, knowing I will never be dropped, only passing on the batten to an apprentice when I die or retire." (bow head and all chant 'Heil Eddie, Heil Eddie, Heil Eddie....' until he takes his leave of you).

lol!

Laslo

With his selection policy under such scrutiny, Ireland really have to pull out all the stops this year. Nothing but a Grand Slam will do. He may survive another Triple Crown with a raft of exceptional performances and perhaps a loss to France... but I suspect that Steady Eddie is in for a pay off at the end of this tournament as I can see us getting shafted by England and France.

Brad Wesley

I think his selection policy is a disgrace and i believe it is being influenced by IRFU politics.
Does anyone remember the time england murdered us under Gatland the following week we had Stringey and ROG amongst others thrown into the team, hence creating the so called generation, I can't see O'sullivan doing anything simular

chris85

Brad Wesley wrote: »

I think his selection policy is a disgrace and i believe it is being influenced by IRFU politics.
Does anyone remember the time england murdered us under Gatland the following week we had Stringey and ROG amongst others thrown into the team, hence creating the so called generation, I can't see O'sullivan doing anything simular

Totally agree, politics seems to have taken over. We have some great players who need experience such as jackman. The prop situation is terrible.

Eddie should have learned that changes need to be made. The experienced players he has need to be teaching the newer players the way of international rugby. And they the players (the new and experienced) would get selected based on merit and form.

the hoff

Podge_irl wrote: »

He is capable of changing the team around - he did it between the 2005 and 2006 Six Nations. He just won't do it "mid-cycle" or while he feels the team can still do well.

I dont really see how you can call this current moment in Irish rugby mid cycle! He spent the last coupla years claiming he was building for the world cup and now that it is over and we thoroughly flopped surely now should be regarded as the beginning of a fresh cycle and the chance to blood some new talent...Granted we are limited as to who we can bring in but there certainly are a few players that could be brought in, namely Heaslip, Jackman, Kearney...and others can certainly be given game time from the bench like Tony Buckley. But the reality of it is, is that Eddie isn't going to make too many changes cos he wants to send a team out there that he feels can save his skin and that will not be a team that looks to the future...

Podge_irl

the hoff wrote: »

I dont really see how you can call this current moment in Irish rugby mid cycle!

I'm reasonably sure Eddie has his own time frames and cycles in his head that don't necessarily have anything to do with world cups.

But the reality of it is, is that Eddie isn't going to make too many changes cos he wants to send a team out there that he feels can save his skin and that will not be a team that looks to the future...

I keep seeing people say this and I feel like it gigantically misses the point. I have no interest in a team that looks to the future for the 6 Nations - it should be the very best team available right now. I have much more interest in it than the stupid RWC, and there are enough other (almost meaningless at this stage) tests to build for the future.
What I will say, however, is that introducing new people need not be just an exercise in building for the future. Right now Heaslip is better than Leamy, right now Jackman is better than Best, right now Leamy/Quinlan are better than Easterby and right now Bowe is better than any other winger picked (or not picked even). That's why they should be picked. That's whats so frustrating.

Good_Crow

the weird thing is tthat when he came on the scene first he was quite creative & we had the backs running great lines etc its all gone pretty stale recently though and i'm coming around to thinking we need a new man

figs86

yeah the major point i feel (and reason i started thread) isnt ''i want so and so to get a run cos he'll eventually be better than the other guy with experience''

i agree very much with podge that the problem is he's not picking who's best right now - it's like saying the south africans should pick os du rant cos he used to be fantastic and might return to that form if we let him play''

jackman best hooker available
heaslip best 8 available
reddan best scrumhalf
bowe best winger
etc etc edit to your taste

but eddie's thinking ''yeh jackman's great but hasnt played for ireland for years - best bring him off the bench so!''
''tommy bowe is playing brilliantly despite the mediocrity of those around him....he'd fit right in on irish team so....leave him out altogether is for the best''

how heartbreaking for any irish player to try and break into the international side, being restricted - almost - to having to play for one of the provinces whether they are working for your best interests or not or giving you game time

then you have to PRAY one of your mates/team-mates gets injured just so you can get a run and nab his place - what the HELL!?

not the first time this has happened that players are ignored - think andy sheridan being selected for lions with only one cap to his name- but really if you are an irishman playing good professional rugby you have to be extraordinarily lucky to get a look in

and then...we complain we've too small a number of internationals to draw from so any time theres an injury its crisis time.....siiiiggghhhhh

conor o shea for ireland coach!

dc69

if he starts best ahead of jackman i think we can all predict how the rest of the tournament will go and what teams he will select.I would also love to see tony buckley,hes an animal.
how do people rate buckley?he aint getting any younger,is it his time?

bugler

Buckley is young enough for a prop. It all hinges on his scrummaging. Hopefully he'll continue to improve on this (it's not bad now), and if he does he could be a gem.

His carrying and counter-rucking can be very good, and he even has a good off-load. The only other thing I'd say is he needs to ensure he keeps a high workrate.

Teg Veece

Apparently this is the team that were training in Belfield today:

1. Horan
2. Best
3. Hayes
4. O'Callaghan
5. O'Kelly
6. Easterby
7. Wallace
8. Leamy

9. Reddan
10. O'Gara
11. Murphy
12. D'arcy
13. O'Driscoll
14. Trimble
15. Dempsey

Clearly, Eddie's learnt nothing.

bugler

The fears were there from the announcement of the 22. If that is the team then EOS has learned nothing from the disaster of the WC. He is still as rigid and conservative as ever. He has no clue.

It will be a disappointing campaign, but my real fear is that it won't be disappointing enough to warrant EOS being sacked. Easterby's inclusion is laugh out loud funny. It tells you all you need to know. EOS is having his Andy Robinson moment.

All the above assumes the team posted above is accurate of course

youcancallmeal

Teg Veece wrote: »

Apparently this is the team that were training in Belfield today:

1. Horan
2. Best
3. Hayes
4. O'Callaghan
5. O'Kelly
6. Easterby
7. Wallace
8. Leamy

9. Reddan
10. O'Gara
11. Murphy
12. D'arcy
13. O'Driscoll
14. Trimble
15. Dempsey

Clearly, Eddie's learnt nothing.

I have no doubt in my mind that this will be the starting 15 announced at lunch time.

Edit: In fact I reckon Stringer will be in for Reddan cos he has more caps.

Crash

Message to Eddie:

Play rugby. Not favourites.

bugler

The most disappointing and ill-judged selection of his career.

toomevara

bugler wrote: »

The most disappointing and ill-judged selection of his career.

...and that's saying something...I'm lost for words, I mean what can you say/do?...pure selection stupidity/ignorance/arrogance...take your pick...just hope its the beginning of the end...

old boy

and all this from a guy who hopes to be head coach on the loins tour

gcgirl

its feels like we are in the titanic

steelbar

bugler wrote: »

The most disappointing and ill-judged selection of his career.

All I can say is paddypower have Italy at 15-2, it's hard not to take it.

Eddie should of been gone 2 years ago.

toomevara

steelbar wrote: »

All I can say is paddypower have Italy at 15-2, it's hard not to take it.

Eddie should of been gone 2 years ago.

Don't throw your money away. Italy have a very good pack, but thats it. An untried half pairing and no backline to speak of...We'll win alright but such a huge wasted opportunity to blood new talent,try both new combinations and form players at International level..sigh...

bugler

I don't think the Italians are good enough to take advantage. I was to and fro about the game...and flirted with the idea of an Italy win. But ultimately I think our clear superiority in the half backs will see us win reasonably well.

If the stodgy selection continues then the really interesting games are yet to come.

GreenHell

The Italians are better than the Georgians!

We should beat them, provencial form has been excellent of late. Although, EOS is involved..

Stev_o

bugler wrote: »

I don't think the Italians are good enough to take advantage. I was to and fro about the game...and flirted with the idea of an Italy win. But ultimately I think our clear superiority in the half backs will see us win reasonably well.

If the stodgy selection continues then the really interesting games are yet to come.

Yup sadly the Italains dont have the discipline to win the match on Saturday id give a guess and say the match is mostly going to come down to shots at goal so basically O'Gara vs Bortlousi. That said dont expect to have a cricket score against them they have decent wingers and dont underestimate Canale he's a very underrated centre.

Ill imagine though that Irelands game plan is to run everything at Masi at OH and pressure him at kicking. Thing is though with Masi at OH i think Italy will run the ball more then people will think sure we will find out on saturday anyway

Crash

The italians have lost troncon as well haven't they?

athtrasna

bugler wrote: »

Buckley is young enough for a prop. It all hinges on his scrummaging. Hopefully he'll continue to improve on this (it's not bad now), and if he does he could be a gem.

His carrying and counter-rucking can be very good, and he even has a good off-load. The only other thing I'd say is he needs to ensure he keeps a high workrate.

I really hope EOS gives Buckley a decent shot this season but it's doubtful. He's the guy who called Buckley up as cover for the Argentina game when Buckley was down to start for Munster - losing him a chance to shine at home.

Front rows tend to play later into their thirties than most positions, the England front row of championships not long past had a combined age of over 100 if I remember correctly.

Back to Buckley, it's a pity that Italy is our first game - if it was later there's a chance he would have started. All the same, he'll probably come on as Super Sub and he's a player most managers would be very happy to have on the bench, for his sake I hope it's a mould he manages to break.

Macka

Check out the Irish team from Eddie's first 6 nations game in charge back in 2002, makes it look like Eddie only brings in new blood when his hand is forced by retirements

Ireland. G Dempsey; G Murphy, B O'Driscoll, K Maggs (retired), D Hickie (retired); D Humphreys (retired) (R O'Gara (74 min), P Stringer; P Clohessy (retired), F Sheahan, J Hayes; M Galwey (retired) capt, P O'Connell; S Easterby, D Wallace, A Foley (retired)

steelbar

Macka wrote: »

Check out the Irish team from Eddie's first 6 nations game in charge back in 2002, makes it look like Eddie only brings in new blood when his hand is forced by retirements

Ireland. G Dempsey; G Murphy, B O'Driscoll, K Maggs (retired), D Hickie (retired); D Humphreys (retired) (R O'Gara (74 min), P Stringer; P Clohessy (retired), F Sheahan, J Hayes; M Galwey (retired) capt, P O'Connell; S Easterby, D Wallace, A Foley (retired)

The IRFU need to grow a set of balls and get rid of him, he is just too afraid to make changes.

Also I hear that that match is a sell out, thats fantastic. Who would of thought they would sell 80,000+ tickets for an Itialian match.

How big are they buidling Lansdowne Rd? 50,000 ish?

The IRFU are good alright.

damnyanks

Macka wrote: »

Check out the Irish team from Eddie's first 6 nations game in charge back in 2002, makes it look like Eddie only brings in new blood when his hand is forced by retirements

Ireland. G Dempsey; G Murphy, B O'Driscoll, K Maggs (retired), D Hickie (retired); D Humphreys (retired) (R O'Gara (74 min), P Stringer; P Clohessy (retired), F Sheahan, J Hayes; M Galwey (retired) capt, P O'Connell; S Easterby, D Wallace, A Foley (retired)

Thats a really good point. Send that into newstalk!

Podge_irl

Macka wrote: »

Check out the Irish team from Eddie's first 6 nations game in charge back in 2002, makes it look like Eddie only brings in new blood when his hand is forced by retirements

Ireland. G Dempsey; G Murphy, B O'Driscoll, K Maggs (retired), D Hickie (retired); D Humphreys (retired) (R O'Gara (74 min), P Stringer; P Clohessy (retired), F Sheahan, J Hayes; M Galwey (retired) capt, P O'Connell; S Easterby, D Wallace, A Foley (retired)

In fairness, several of those players lost their starting place before retiring.

thebaz

it must be great to get picked by eddie , you know the jersey is yours for life

welish

Described as the "elder statesman among Ireland's back-row options", one newspaper has suggested that "[2007] could well be Easterby's last Six Nations campaign": [1]


Fingers crossed.

timmieriordan

My team would be:
1. Horan
2. Jackman
3. Buckley (for munster aswell)
4. O' Callaghan
5. Cullen
6. Leamy
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. O' Gara
11. Bowe
12. O' Driscoll
13. D'arcy
14. Carney
15. Murphy

Manager Ireland: Declan Kidney
Manager Munster: Mick Galway
Manager Leinster: Conor O' Shea

Shan75

timmieriordan wrote: »

My team would be:
1. Horan
2. Jackman
3. Buckley (for munster aswell)
4. O' Callaghan
5. Cullen
6. Leamy
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. O' Gara
11. Bowe
12. O' Driscoll
13. D'arcy
14. Carney
15. Murphy

Manager Ireland: Declan Kidney
Manager Munster: Mick Galway
Manager Leinster: Conor O' Shea

Could you please explain why you would like those listed above as manager so we could discuss the pros and cons.The main reason I ask this is because I think you mean these guys should be the coaches and not the managers.

I also think EOS and Declan Kidney have blinded people from being able to think for themselves vis-a-vis the back row.Many are advocating the inclusion of Heaslip which in itself is fine as the guy is playing well but really is just contributing to the EOS school of back row play: Namely having three blind side ball carriers in attendance.In my "radical" opinion Wallace should be number 8 with Leamy at 6 allowing a genuine open side to be in the team(Jennings preferably or Gleeson).This would also free our centres from doing a flanker's job and would mean they could get back to doing what they are supposed to be doing.It really seems ridiculous to me to have the best centre in the world playing as an open side flanker when he would be better employed gaining advantage from real flankers creating space and opportunity for him.

timmieriordan

manager, coach, same difference to me.

Declan Kidney, because he would bring in a specialist backs coach and has great man management skills. look at how he got all the munster lads back firing again after the WC. Gaillimh because someone would have to replace kidney and i think he has enough experience with shannon and all the players have a very high regard for him.

I just threw Conor O Shea in for the craic, someone has to replace Cheika, he's a joke!

Podge_irl

Shan75 wrote: »

Many are advocating the inclusion of Heaslip which in itself is fine as the guy is playing well but really is just contributing to the EOS school of back row play: Namely having three blind side ball carriers in attendance.In my "radical" opinion Wallace should be number 8 with Leamy at 6 allowing a genuine open side to be in the team(Jennings preferably or Gleeson).

Heaslip is not a blindside and doesn't play like one. He's an out and out no.8, has good hands, good linking, good support play and is good off the base. Considering he's the only option who actually regularly plays at 8 I really don't see why people keep suggesting other players should be shifted into the position.

Kidney is as conservative wrt selection as O'Sullivan.

bleg

i wouldn't necessarily agree with that. kidney uses his bread and butter (magners league) to blood new players and try new things keeping his best players for the HEC. if you compare that to ireland's bread and butter (6 nations) you don't see the same thing. same players being used week in week out

Podge_irl

You're having a bloody laugh if you're comparing the Magners to the 6 Nations. Pray tell what is analagous to the HC then, the 4-yearly WC? The 6 Nations is Ireland's most important tournament year in year out.

Kidney (generally) blanket rests his first team for "unimportant" matches, but when crunch time comes he always, always goes back to his favoured players with little regard for their form. Injured players slot right back in and those returning from international rugby slot right back in regardless of their international form and that of the replacement. Personally, I think that sounds fairly familiar.

Kidney is clearly better at getting the best out of his players (though that may just be as a result of EOS stagnating as opposed to actually being poor at this), but he's a very similar coach.

Shan75

Podge_irl wrote: »

Heaslip is not a blindside and doesn't play like one. He's an out and out no.8, has good hands, good linking, good support play and is good off the base. Considering he's the only option who actually regularly plays at 8 I really don't see why people keep suggesting other players should be shifted into the position.

Kidney is as conservative wrt selection as O'Sullivan.

Yes Heaslip is an 8 and I wasn't really clear in what I was saying.Including Heaslip is fine but what I am really concerned about is we have no scavenger type in the back-row.I think we need a genuine open side but I would be against dropping Wallace but that would mean moving him to either 6 or 8 and I think he would have no problem playing in either position and would be better than Leamy at 8.

I agree with you about Kidney.

Gaillimh because someone would have to replace kidney and i think he has enough experience with shannon and all the players have a very high regard for him.

By all accounts Galwey isn't much of a coach so players having a high regard for him wouldn't really matter.

Podge_irl

Shan75 wrote: »

Yes Heaslip is an 8 and I wasn't really clear in what I was saying.Including Heaslip is fine but what I am really concerned about is we have no scavenger type in the back-row.I think we need a genuine open side but I would be against dropping Wallace but that would mean moving him to either 6 or 8 and I think he would have no problem playing in either position and would be better than Leamy at 8.

Ah right, I get you. The ball protection at ruck time is piss poor at the moment for whatever reason, the introduction of just one player is unlikely the fix that, but I would certainly look at Jennings.

I also feel Wallace would suffer much the same problems as Leamy playing no.8, that he simply isn't actually an 8. I realise that trying to fit Jennings, Wallace, Leamy, Heaslip and possibly Quinlan into a backrow is impossible, and it would be nice to have them all, but ultimately Heaslip is the only actually playing 8 week in week out (and the only one who looks like a real 8 imo).