Is this a basement?

Rudolph Claus

Point of note: Im a construction student and this building/design is a project, im not actually developing a building for real, yet anyways.

Ok, if you can picture this building:
It is on a slope, so the slope was cut into to make a leveling for a building. The finished building, when you walk in the front door your on the ground floor and when you walk in the rear door of the building you are in a basement.

my question is this actually classed as a basement? The front half of the basement floor isnt underground, so can i agrue this isnt a basement by saying the entire floor isnt underground. The wall even has windows, though obviously the rear of this wall is well below ground from the front of the building.

The reason i want to say its not a basement is because of the fire regulations. I only want to have 1 set of stairs in this building, but because this 1 set of stairs will have to be a protected stairway it cannot proceed down to a basement level to satisfy the regs, from my reading of them anyway.

muffler

shit another one - locked

Edit: Sober now again and this stays locked

OP just be aware that we do not allow discussion on flaunting of planning or building regs rules. Get it certified privately. Be it on your own head should anything ever go wrong.

Edit: Point clarified and thread opened again

Mellor

as before it depends.
You said you want only a single stairs. i take this that you have 3 stories. Ground first second, or basement ground first.
This should be answered by your architect or engineer. I have my own answer but I won't post it as I have little details.

sinnerboy

basement stairs cannot be a continuation of the stairs serving other parts of the building

what you have sounds like a lower ground floor not a basement

so your building will be 3 storey and the stairs will need to be protected i.e..enclosed in fire rated construction , doors leading onto it being self closing fire resistant

go here and download part b - the section to rear on measurements will guide you further as to when a basement condition arises

http://www.environ.ie/en/TGD/

good luck with your studies

IN REAL life - an experienced professional needs to be appointed to prepare a fire safety certificate application

Rudolph Claus

Just to clear up the situation, this is a project design for college, not an actual building. It seems i gave the impression i was trying to bend the regulations, when im really trying to ensure my finished design conforms to the regulations. I have my travel distances, means of escape and protected corridors and their widths and door widths all established from reading my regulations. Im aiming for the hostel to hold 50-60 occupants.

However, i find the bit about the number and type of stairways needed confusing.
The reason i find this confusing is because im not sure if the building i described has a basement or not due to it not been fully underground, i was hoping someone could tell me if its classed as a basement or not.

From my interperatin of the regs if my 3storey building/hostel has a single stairway, it must be protected. Thats easy to see from the regs. However, the regs go on to say that if 1 of these floors is a basement the single escape stairway must not proceed below the ground floor, it should terminate at ground level. But, if there is another escape stairway then the other 1 can serve the basement as long as it has a protected lobby at each level.

Am i right to assume the term "escape stairway" is the same as "protected stairway"?

So, in my 3 storey design, assuming it has a basement for the minute, does it satify the regs to have 2 protecded stairways, 1 serving the ground to 1st and another serving the ground to basement?

Rudolph Claus

sinnerboy wrote: »

basement stairs cannot be a continuation of the stairs serving other parts of the building

what you have sounds like a lower ground floor not a basement

so your building will be 3 storey and the stairs will need to be protected i.e..enclosed in fire rated construction , doors leading onto it being self closing fire resistant

go here and download part b - the section to rear on measurements will guide you further as to when a basement condition arises

http://www.environ.ie/en/TGD/

good luck with your studies

IN REAL life - an experienced professional needs to be appointed to prepare a fire safety certificate application

Hey, thanks for the reply, you must have posted whilst i was typing the above post. I have them regs, Part B, im sick of looking at them, haha

A lower ground floor, i wasnt aware there was a term for this type of floor, but that makes sense as its not a real basement. Thanks for clearing that up! Its hard to apply the regs not knowing i have a basement or not.


So, i can have a single stairway in my particular design serving the lower ground/ground/1st floor continually as long as its protected?

sinnerboy

actually ...... (apologies for this ) - from appendix D Part B

Basement storey - means a storey which is
below the ground storey or, where there is no
ground storey, means a storey the top surface of the
floor of which is situated at such a level or levels that
some point on its perimeter is more than 1.2 m
below the level of the finished surface of the ground
adjoining the building in the vicinity of that point

on 2nd thoughts having re read your original post , you may have a basement storey after all .... and will have to seperate the the two stairs

Rudolph Claus

The floor to ceiling height of my basement is 2.5M, and the rear of this basement is completely underground as its directly under the ground floor. I dont really understand that 1.2M bit, from to where is that 1.2M measured from? Does this mean because the rear of my basement is completely underground by 2.5m as its directly under the ground floor, its definitely a basement becasue some point of its perimiter is more than 1.2M ??


"more than 1.2 m
below the level of the finished surface of the ground
"
The finished surface of the ground is debatable in my building. The door on the rear of the building leads straight into the basement, so could i argue that is the ground level???
The front door leads into the ground floor.


Also, do you know if i have a lift in the building too, can the lift and the protected stairs share the same protected lobby? As i have described in the picture below.

Cheers, for the help btw, i know its bad enough reading them regs for one`s own use let alone someone for else.

Mellor

Does the entrance to the building enter this "basement" level. Or the one above.
without seeing it, it is hard to comment. On certain sites a TGD vrs Regs viewpoint would have to be taken, and compliance has to be shown by other means. Its hard to give a full comment without a section through the building.

The bet example of these I can give is bolton street college. This building has many floor levels. There is no rea floor name or level on any floor. Its a 4 story building, with 8 different floor levels.

Separating the flight from ground to basement and ground to first. Is probably best, it doesn't have to be two stairs, just separated by protected corridor or lobby (I know this technically makes it two stairs, but it is travelled in almost a continous fashion)

sinnerboy

Nuttzy wrote: »

The floor to ceiling height of my basement is 2.5M, and the rear of this basement is completely underground as its directly under the ground floor. I dont really understand that 1.2M bit, from to where is that 1.2M measured from? Does this mean because the rear of my basement is completely underground by 2.5m as its directly under the ground floor, its definitely a basement becasue some point of its perimiter is more than 1.2M ??

yes

Rudolph Claus

Mellor wrote: »

Does the entrance to the building enter this "basement" level. Or the one above

Yes, The rear door enters into the "basement" level.
The front door enters into the ground floor.
There are only 2 entrances on the building, a front and a back. There is currently no access between these 2 floors. The basement is 2.5m in height.

shakeydude

Here is a sketch of how to classify a basement, I am not sure if this is in the regs as well. Remember is the basement is classified as a storey, in the case of a split level, then vertical ties may be required in the masonry....irrelevant piece of information.:)

Brando_ie

Without actually knowing what form your design has it is very difficult to give any valid escape advice (and furthermore, as already suggested, was this a real project, it would be critical to get professional advice either in-house or by a fire consultant).

If the form of the design had a large frontage to the lower ground floor level it may be possible to include alternate escapes at both front corners of the design which may satisfy your escape burden, but if it has a narrow frontage it would be reasonable to expect an alternate escape at the rear which sounds like it is clearly below ground (if so you may be able to use the air space of the upper floors staircase to park a now basement and isolated stair under.... I did something similar for a basement nightclub I recently finished for three enclosed escapes)

It may well be worth trying to get a few minutes with your local fire officer and your design to discuss it. We have a very accommodating fire officer who actually issues the the fire certification in my area who can and often does advise on some clever ways of achieving your escapes (and may be willing to give you a few minutes to talk it through).

I'm sure adding this level of research into your design would stand to you in a crit and prove a useful learning exercise.