moyross / southill

thebaz

Had a day off today , and fealt the media photos didn't do the soon to be demolished deprived areas of Limerick , justice . Despite being warned not to go, by various people , as usual i found the people here great , theres good people behing the image , and got some decent photos, much better than what i saw in the press during the week (or so i think !) .
Set up on flickr ;-
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thebaz/sets/72157603788528566/

heres a sample :-

Entering Southill


Riding into Moyross

Masada

nice shots baz., you've got some ba*ls.,

CONMIKE12

Commented on your Flickr, great work.

Ginger

Really enjoyed that baz.. I am from Limerick and its nice to see another take on the whole roghest city in Ireland thing.

Did you have any trouble, i am guessing most of the lads would have been really happy to stop for a snap

5uspect

Fair dues to you for taking these pictures. They do romanticise the area a bit tho.

Personally I find those lads with their horses on the roads to be a complete nightmare when driving in Limerick. The really don't give a toss about other road users.

JMcL

Great set Baz, and fair play to you for going doing it.

It's important that documentary photos like this are taken. There was a letter in AP (I think) a few weeks back from a guy that grew up in a north of England town, who when a teenager in the 50s met a girl out taking photographs of the tenements in the town. He couldn't understand why, but she told him that she was documenting them as they'd all be demolished in a few years, which they were to be replaced by identikit standardised British urban landscape "architecture". They went out shooting together for a few months, but then lost touch. The guy walked into his local library or council offices recently to find an exhibition of those self same photos.

If we rely on press photos as you say, generations to come will think that these areas were populated solely by drug addled thugs, which of course isn't true. Generations to come will of course also think that children didn't exist in the early 21st century, but that's a whole other thorny question

crookesa

Nice set of pics, fair play to you for going in. No agro at all no?

thebaz

crookesa wrote: »

Nice set of pics, fair play to you for going in. No agro at all no?

No trouble at all , i've been asked back which i will --


Oriel -- please don't comment on my photos again, i don't rate your poodles and George michael photography , or your persistant bitter feedback , so lets agree not to comment on each other, if you have a problem with me , pm me, and we'll sort it out --

oshead

Love the 'Hiding around the corner' one.

RCNPhotos

Nice shots but I would have to agree, as much as it pains me, with Oriel with regards to composition. Just in shots like "Outside the Shop", there's nothing on the right side, but one lad has his arm cut off a good bit, and their feet are cut off also. And the sunlight in the first shot here is distracting.

As for Oriel, heavy handed and blunt as usual. Where would we be without him?

5uspect

RCNPhotos wrote: »

Nice shots but I would have to agree, as much as it pains me, with Oriel with regards to composition. Just in shots like "Outside the Shop", there's nothing on the right side, but one lad has his arm cut off a good bit, and their feet are cut off also. And the sunlight in the first shot here is distracting.

As for Oriel, heavy handed and blunt as usual. Where would we be without him?

That's the nice way of providing C&C! Granted it wasn't tagged a C&C thread tho...

thebaz

RCNPhotos wrote: »

Nice shots but I would have to agree, as much as it pains me, with Oriel with regards to composition. Just in shots like "Outside the Shop", there's nothing on the right side, but one lad has his arm cut off a good bit, and their feet are cut off also. And the sunlight in the first shot here is distracting.

As for Oriel, heavy handed and blunt as usual. Where would we be without him?

thanks RCN, i have no problem with feedback, i know i have a long way to go , i'm only doing it seriously , with slr , just over a year -- and i honestly want feeback , but when some one terms my photography , "knacker photography" , dosn't so much criticise, as sneer , sorry , then i have a problem .

Back to point , it was a bit nerve wrecking , going in as a Dub, to estates, i was warned against , so i only brought a point and shoot, and in an intimadating evironment , dof, exposure , composition, can be secondary to your personal safety -- next time i will be more relaxed , now that a trust has been built, but a lot of these guys are not be messed with .... and while my stuff is far from perfect , still think it was alot better than the photo used in the media , during the week ... finally i do know your not meant to shoot into sun, but i like the effect , i have a few with the sun at my back, but prefer this , just my weird brain .... anyway thanks , and please keep criticism coming , i want constructive feedback, not cheap shots .

TelePaul

The Baz, what's the story? Do you just approach these lads and tell them you'd like to take a photo of them?

thebaz

TelePaul wrote: »

The Baz, what's the story? Do you just approach these lads and tell them you'd like to take a photo of them?

i was warned by someone in Southill , that my gear could get nicked , but i treat them with respect , shoot the breeze as such , have a laugh , and see the human side .. why is it a bit natural to me , personally i have had more hurt from suppossedly respectfull people in society , and can relate to the alienation ....

Arciphel

Baz, i am from Limerick and grew up near this area, went to school in the Southhill area and walked through it twice a day for six years. I never had any problems and part of me wonders if the redevelopment of houses will have any effect when i think a large part of the problem is the perceptions of people who have never been in the area and know nothing about it.

Mainly, i just wanted to say fair balls for getting in there & for letting your pictures do the talking.

I have to say, i think this is the pick of the bunch. As i said, i had to hike up this hill (and it is a big hill!) every day and this was a site i was used to every morning.

440Hz

Baz, I can't say I "get" your subject matter, however I do applaud that you have choosen a genre/area to focus on and you make it your own, which is what a great part of art is about, and what a lot of people never achieve. Like I said, I dont get it, but I would never insult it, or your work. You take the time to work on these shots, and you share them with everyone else, that alone deserves the respect of "if you have nothing positive to say, keep stum".

Constructive criticism regarding the technical or compositional elements of a shot are good, and are essential to developing your/our work, however, if one is not willing to point out particular criticisms and suggest ways to overcome these, then where is the value in slating them. RCN has the right approach to feedback here. Ironic in a way that you probably give/receive more respect while shooting in Southhill than you receive from the minority here. The fact that you see more than just a gang of "knackers" (excuse the label, but making a reference), should be enough validation for yourself, and enough of a reason to let certain remarks on here pass.

Dink

Well said Paul. Keep up the good work Baz, I enjoy your pictures.

Oriel you don't know when to stop do you?

Respect for going in there Baz.I still haven't set foot in either estate and I live here.Although I agree Moyross has many upstanding citizens it really is much dodgier than most places in Dublin because of the dangerous minority.A 13 year old is up for firearms offences at the moment ffs!I'd be very careful if you go there again,certainly don't bring the dSLR.As for the photos I think you've managed to catch a different more human side of our 2 ravaged estates.This is eclipsed in the 2 horse photos I think.You've shown a more compassionate side to some of the people in Moyross.Well done.

elven

Ok people, play nice. Inappropriate posts should be dealt with through the report post option, and lets keep all sniping out of the forum, in either direction - keep it on topic. I don't want to have to start deleting posts again.

If you don't like someone's stuff and don't have anything constructive to add, this isn't the place. Keep it about helping each other... we're meant to be here for the fun of it...

Oracle

I like the black and white one, nice atmospheric. Actually sorta captures the depressed desolate feeling of the place.

RoryW

As I said on your flickr.

Nerves of steel Baz. Thats them not you. They still needed the alsation though for protection from the photographer

AnCatDubh

did someone say photography could be emotive

ok. for me - the two that were posted don't do much for me (may be me than the pictures) but i do think there are some interesting moods captured in the linked flickr set.

for C&C (as it was requested) I think theres a lot of points being mentioned which are probably quite valid in terms of general improvement but....... I wonder if generally when you photograph, that you are trying to create something interesting by not obeying the generic rules which may constrain many of us. Then again, it is generally street photography that seems to float your boat and as such you are taking it as it evolves. For your street portraits i would suggest to some extra care on backgrounds, positioning of subject, keep rule of thirds in mind if you want to take generically pleasing shots (but don't be overly constrained), and careful with crop - then again having seen much of your posts i don't think its quite what you are trying to achieve. Your situational shots i guess are shot from the hip and there's not a magic wand that you can wave to ensure you get the *perfect* shot. You either get them or not in a moment - gear, practice, and knowing what you are trying to create rather than randomly shooting also helps and improves the chances of aesthetically pleasing shots. But again i pause - i don't know if that is what you are attempting to achieve. Perhaps it is this that gets a varied critique when you post (just a thought!).

I love the subject matter in this one;



but i would reiterate my thoughts above - background, positioning, and crop. that may mean that my mind is more restricted than yours.

I think there is a sense of enjoyment and personal achievement in what you present. It mightn't be everyone's cup of tea but hey, not everyone likes tea either.

Oh yeah, and be careful for goodness sake. Hope the above is of use/interest to you.

Oriel

Is this a "Photography" forum or is this a "Who dares wins" forum?
The majority of this feedback appears to be "Jasus, you got out of there with your camera - well done!"

I'm always the first to admit when I'm wrong. Give me that at least. I always hold my hands up when I'm wrong.
However, most of Baz's photographs are, technically, average to bad (in my opinion).

Does thebaz stop to think about the f-stop he's at? Does he check the exposure? Does he change the shutter speed to suit the scene? Does he check the ISO? Does he consider the light? Reflectors?
He goes into a "deprived" area and clicks. Baz, if I'm wrong then please correct me. It appears that you get meritted for having the balls to take a semi-slr into a "deprived" area. And that's about it.

May I add:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thebaz/2217024577/in/set-72157603788528566/
I commented on a great photo. It's good. It's unique. I give credit where credit is due. That's a great shot.

I think the difference appears due to subject. I'm used to shooting music and other things where I have no control over what's being shot. Very technicially challenging. I need to pay very careful attention to the technicial aspects, light, ISO, shutter etc.
thebaz needs to pay attention entirely to subject.
That's where we differ.

Barry, I'd love to meet with you and buy you a drink. It's nothing personal at all. And I'd like to make a point of that. It's all about the art...

What can I say, I'm actually really nice in person...
Honest.

edit/ elven - that's for you too...
Ryan, yer just the bollocks

sineadw

Jesus Oriel be careful - you come across human in the above!

As for me... Baz already said he was shooting with a P&S here and I'm not sure a lot of us would blame him. I think that's what's most challenging in the shots. Barry forgive me - they might not be the most technically perfect photographs (coming from someone who also has a lot to learn..).. but they bring out a lot more than the shots I usually take. I'm in Ballyfermot College this year and walk ( I walk a lot ) by some of the most deprived areas in the city every day. If I did have balls I don't know if I'd have them to take shots. Agreed, that doesn't make a good photographer, or a bad photographer good. You just don't see these type of shots though in mainstream photography. Personally I hate Des Bishop, but I liked his 'in the hood' series a few years ago. I see these shots the same way. Baz yo are the Des Bishop of photography. You can take that whatever way you want

Bottom line - these are discussion forums, and your photos produce that at least...

thebaz

Oriel wrote: »

However, most of Baz's photographs are, technically, average to bad (in my opinion).

Does thebaz stop to think about the f-stop he's at? Does he check the exposure? Does he change the shutter speed to suit the scene? Does he check the ISO? Does he consider the light? Reflectors?
He goes into a "deprived" area and clicks. Baz, if I'm wrong then please correct me. It appears that you get meritted for having the balls to take a semi-slr into a "deprived" area. And that's about it.


I think the difference appears due to subject. I'm used to shooting music and other things where I have no control over what's being shot. Very technicially challenging. I need to pay very careful attention to the technicial aspects, light, ISO, shutter etc.
thebaz needs to pay attention entirely to subject.
That's where we differ.

Oriel - i've stated many time i'm only learning , i've only had an slr over a year , and a d 50 at that -- i did state i only used a p & s in Limerick, and even if i had years of technical experience , i would prefer to capture a moment (reality) , than wonder about reflectors/ perfect exposure , exact f stop -- when shooting in sometimes intimadating environments , i have to preset stuff beforehand - (iso etc) -- i'm not as totally stupid as you can make out, but realise i have along way to go , to reach a technical standard i'm happy with , maybe 2 years --

Finally we must agree that we have different views to photography , you like technically perfect stuff, i still like off the cuff stuff (even if technically imperfect) like "London Calling " , Ramones first album , and some of Cartiers weird stuff (that doesn't follow the perfect rules ).

Just respect different styles , we all don't have to like the same thing , much like music , i'm sure we have different tastes , doesn't make each others bad.

Have a look at this a shot of the old Sherriff st., aint technically perfect
http://www.source.ie/issues/issues0120/issue06/is06regleoR2.html

As regards the drink , i only got into photography a year ago when i gave it up -- anyway i'm going up north soon , so behave

finally , you probably didn't see the shot that was doing the rounds in the press here for Moyross, if my stuff is bad , that from a proffessional , was shall i say .......

Oriel

Lol grand, I could do with giving it up too to be honest.
Oh and I never once called you stupid!

rymus

Oriel wrote: »

Ryan, yer just the bollocks

I did what now?

challengemaster

he means the dogs bollix - aka. great in every way.. *cough*

anyway, Baz, capturing the mood of the place as ever well done

rymus

challengemaster wrote: »

he means the dogs bollix - aka. great in every way.. *cough*

That's what I assumed...

TelePaul

Oriel wrote: »

Lol grand, I could do with giving it up too to be honest.

If that happened you'd stop coming here right?

RCNPhotos

I thought I was Ryan, boo-urns, I want to be the bollox or however you spell it.

rymus

we can both be the bollocks... I'll take Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. You take Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays and we'll flip for Sunday on a weekly basis.

floydmoon1

Does anyone have a good pic of some dogs bollocks:D.This thread is gone off topic.