Ford Mondeo rant

Stevie Dakota

Ok, I know all the motoring hacks love it, but I just don't get it.

We know its good to drive and the handling is good but..

Why does the back of the saloon look like such a mess?
Why do you see so much of the chassis when driving behind one?
After the nice nose why is the design so bland from there on back?
Why when you pull the door handle on the inside does it pull two inches before anything happens, it feels like its broken when its not?
Why do you have to go to Ghia level before you get the chrome and it starts to feel special?
Why is parking control not standard on Zetec, at least on the rear with that huge arse.
Why do the doors still not sound as good as VW or Renault when you slam them?
Why are all the alloy wheel designs so lousy, and why does the car always look under-tyred?
What's with the switch for the electric mirrors, did they forget to finish designing it?

Yes they are small things, but they all add up to me going to VW, Mazda or Renault.

fletch

I agree with you, I don't see why it is getting such good reviews. I can't comment on what they are like to drive but I hate the styling of it. The Zetec spec Mondeo used to be a good looking car but the 16inch multispoke alloys are lost on such a big car and look totally naff. The interior is also horrid, so much shiny silvery hard plastic.

Edit - Just to mention I normally love Ford cars.

oilsheik

I wouldn't be that pushed on the Ghia all that fake wood Titanium looks alot better. Drove a 1.8 diesel and the engine is superb miles ahead of the VAG 1.9. Alloys on the Zetec are a bit fussy a real pain to clean and look terrible when dirty.

maidhc

I agree it needs bigger wheels. It is lets face it a pretty massive car.

I like the design and as for the door handles etc. Pretty insignificant....

The interior of the Passat Comfortline isn't great either to be honest. I was driving one this morning, and it is plasticy enough, and the the same car has a horrible rattle from bheind the dash no one seems able to cure!

But by all means buy a Mazda 6, same car different clothes!

groupb

I am a massive fan of mondeos , but I have to agree that the saloon would'nt be the best styled car on the road. Also the wheels do look a bit small. Having said that I've yet to drive a car that I can see when I'm sitting in it. As for the interior each to his own. My previous mondeos had no rattles after big mileage. The chrome bits are made in the same factory that makes the bits for the passat . I would suggest that the way a car drives is surely more important than the way it looks or the way the doors sound and in this regard the mondeo shows where all the work has been done.Had an 07 passat 2.0tdi sportline with leather as a company car for a while and it had a symphany of rattles coming from the cabin. The finnish also left a lot to be desired.

PaulieC

maidhc wrote: »

But by all means buy a Mazda 6, same car different clothes!

apparently not so at all. only the engines are shared between the two because Mazda wanted to differentiate between the 6 and the mondeo. The 6 is something like 150kg lighter than the mondeo

delly

Had the option of a Mondeo or Vectra just over a year ago and most people here recommended the Mondeo hands down. I went with the Vectra in the end and am very happy with it while a few colleagues have Mondeos and aren't that impressed. Horses for courses and all.

E92

cambo_gueno wrote: »

apparently not so at all. only the engines are shared between the two because Mazda wanted to differentiate between the 6 and the mondeo. The 6 is something like 150kg lighter than the mondeo

They are completely different cars, including the engines which are all Mazdas own in the 6(the Mondeo uses all Ford engines)!

From what I've seen and read, the new Mondeo is a great car, personally the looks are fine and the only flaw from what I've read is the 1.6 which is too small for that size of car and the interior isn't quite as well made as it should be.

maidhc

E92 wrote: »

They are completely different cars, including the engines which are all Mazdas own in the 6(the Mondeo uses all Ford engines)!

Same floorpan and running gear though, same car.

A few different engines perhaps.

PaulieC

E92 wrote: »

They are completely different cars, including the engines which are all Mazdas own in the 6(the Mondeo uses all Ford engines)!

my mistake so. I thought the 2.0 Diesel was a shared engine and that was the only thing that was

maidhc

cambo_gueno wrote: »

my mistake so. I thought the 2.0 Diesel was a shared engine and that was the only thing that was

No one seems certain of that point!

Don't take too much notice of E92. he is BMW nerd who knows little about real cars.

Biro

maidhc wrote: »

Same floorpan and running gear though, same car.

A few different engines perhaps.

Nope, different floorpan, different running gear, different suspension, different engines.... nothing similar!

E92

maidhc wrote: »

Same floorpan and running gear though, same car.

A few different engines perhaps.

No they're not. The new Mazda 6 is based on the old one. It's chassis was developed entirely by Mazda, and provides the basis for large American market Fords e.g. Ford Fusion, Lincoln MKZ, as well as a few other Mazdas such as the CX-9.

The Mondeo uses the Ford 'EUCD'(the 6 uses the CD platform) platform and is completely unrelated. It's chassis is for European market Ford the Mondeo, S-Max, Galaxy as well as the Volvo V70, S80, and S60 replacement. It was designed primarily by Volvo. The 6's chassis doesn't take 5 pot engines, the Mondeos one as you know does.

And the engines in the 6 are absolutely nothing to do with any Ford or any other Ford brand(bar Mazda of course!) either. The MZ-CD Mazda engine is 1999 cc, the Mondeos 2.0 diesel is 1997 cc(and is in turn an engine found only in Fords and the Jag X-Type). The petrols are also Mazda designed too, in comparison to the Mondeo, with the 2.0 coming straight out off the old one, the 1.6 is Ford designed and a version of which is found in the Focus and C-Max, the 2.3 is also from Ford, and the 5 cylinder 2.5T is from Volvo(in contrast the 2.5 in the 6 is a 4 banger engine and needless to say is Mazda designed).

Biro wrote:

Nope, different floorpan, different running gear, different suspension, different engines.... nothing similar!

Here's someone who knows what they're talking about . Everything in the Mondeo and 6 is different, and the same goes for the previous generation of both cars too(they were totally unrelated too).

The cheek of you maidhc to say I only know anything about BMW:p!

maidhc

E92 wrote: »

The cheek of you maidhc to say I only know anything about BMW:p!

I bow to those with superior knowledge!

Does that mean the 6 handles like an american car?

Stevie Dakota

Hey, stop highjacking my thread, and back to berating the Mondeo please...;)

Biro

Funnily enough, I had a yankee 6 when I was in boston last year for a week, an automatic petrol. Couldn't find anywhere that indicated the engine size, but it handled totally different (as in worse) than the Euro one. I think they changed the suspension for treakle in the American one.
The Euro 6 handles quite well for a big saloon! I'd prefer it to drive than an A4 for example. I'd even prefer it to a Mondeo (old shape, haven't driven the current one), as it's dynamically not far behind in terms of chassis ability, but for some reason I just can't get a comfortable driving position in the Mondeo.

ianobrien

E92 wrote: »

No they're not. The new Mazda 6 is based on the old one. It's chassis was developed entirely by Mazda, and provides the basis for large American market Fords e.g. Ford Fusion, Lincoln MKZ, as well as a few other Mazdas such as the CX-9.

The Mondeo uses the Ford 'EUCD'(the 6 uses the CD platform) platform and is completely unrelated. It's chassis is for European market Ford the Mondeo, S-Max, Galaxy as well as the Volvo V70, S80, and S60 replacement. It was designed primarily by Volvo. The 6's chassis doesn't take 5 pot engines, the Mondeos one as you know does.

And the engines in the 6 are absolutely nothing to do with any Ford or any other Ford brand(bar Mazda of course!) either. The MZ-CD Mazda engine is 1999 cc, the Mondeos 2.0 diesel is 1997 cc(and is in turn an engine found only in Fords and the Jag X-Type). The petrols are also Mazda designed too, in comparison to the Mondeo, with the 2.0 coming straight out off the old one, the 1.6 is Ford designed and a version of which is found in the Focus and C-Max, the 2.3 is also from Ford, and the 5 cylinder 2.5T is from Volvo(in contrast the 2.5 in the 6 is a 4 banger engine and needless to say is Mazda designed).


Here's someone who knows what they're talking about . Everything in the Mondeo and 6 is different, and the same goes for the previous generation of both cars too(they were totally unrelated too).

The cheek of you maidhc to say I only know anything about BMW:p!

That's interesting about the petrol engines, as I was enquiring about a major horsepower Duratec engine (Mondeo petrol engine) and I was informed that Mazda 2.3 blocks would be used in the build for bigger capacity.

The 2.0 petrol Duratec is not a ford engine, it's a Mazda designed unit. All ford designed engines have the same bellhousing pattern and thus you can bolt your Zetec RS engine on to an Anglia gearbox and they'll fit! A hybrid clutch would be needed due to difference in input shaft size, and the time that the gearbox would last with 200hp going through it could be measured in seconds.

If you want to know about Ford engines, just ask any Classic Ford head, as engine transplants are common for Escorts, Anglias, Cortinas etc...

I've heard from a diesel engine freak that the Duratorq diesel engine is a Peugeot Diesel engine!

I'm not doubting the platform thing, but on the engines, I've got my ears sore from rally heads transplanting engines.

E92

maidhc wrote: »

Does that mean the 6 handles like an american car?

I don't know, but anything I've read about the 6 says they're a nice handling car(doesn't mean to say those cars that are based on the 6 for the US are nice handling though either:D!)

maidhc

ianobrien wrote: »

I've heard from a diesel engine freak that the Duratorq diesel engine is a Peugeot Diesel engine!

The Ford diesels I know.. they have their origins in everything from the Orion, to the Transit to the Pug!

I always thought that Mazda and Ford Engines were similar. The 2.5 from the Mk1 and Mk2 mondeo was definately a mazda unit.

E92

ianobrien wrote: »

That's interesting about the petrol engines, as I was enquiring about a major horsepower Duratec engine (Mondeo petrol engine) and I was informed that Mazda 2.3 blocks would be used in the build for bigger capacity.

The 2.0 petrol Duratec is not a ford engine, it's a Mazda designed unit. All ford designed engines have the same bellhousing pattern and thus you can bolt your Zetec RS engine on to an Anglia gearbox and they'll fit! A hybrid clutch would be needed due to difference in input shaft size, and the time that the gearbox would last with 200hp going through it could be measured in seconds.

Wow that's interesting, didn't realise the latest 2.0s are from Mazda! I just assumed that because they both had identical bhp they were the same, my fullest apologies(particularly to maidhc) and to think I said what I said earlier about getting facts right.....:p. So what yer telling me is that the 2.0 petrol in the Mondeo and 6 is the same then. I've checked Wikipedia and it says you're right(curiously a few weeks ago it said you would have been wrong, and even today, its telling me your story, and then it sets about contradicting itself but I bow to your better knowledge of these things!).

Sure every shaggin' petrol engine is called Duratec by Ford these days:D!

2stageturbo

Ah come on now. A RENAULT ?:rolleyes:

Biro

Be careful of Wikipedia, not always the most accurate of info on it!

E92

Biro wrote: »

Be careful of Wikipedia, not always the most accurate of info on it!

+1. A lot of the BMW info is either rubbish or out of date(no info on the E60 models with EfficientDynamics for example).

Does anyone know a better Wikipedia type website out there, cause I find they tell me one thing, I mention it here on Motors only to be told it's 100% wrong(as per today in this thread), look again and now Wikipedia tells me something else, and look again a few weeks later, and it would be a different story again!

groupb

Maybe you should try and bash another car Stevie.

Churchy

Expectations > Wallet , I suspect.

Mass production car doesnt suit everyone shocker!!

Go buy an Aston Martin - they will tweak it so your every hearts desire is fulfilled. Of course you'll have to pay for it.

As for a Renault , go ahead , I bought one for 50% of list price (130PS Dynamique) at 6months old and still couldnt sell it.....

Stevie Dakota

Churchy wrote: »

Expectations > Wallet , I suspect.

That's a pretty obnoxious comment. My comments relate primarily to design and perceived quality issues, things that the competition (Renault (new Laguna), Passat, Mazda 6) seem to have nailed, so yes, as the competition improves my expectations are higher. There are too many elements about the new Mondeo that would irritate the hell out of me, and that rules it out. Judging by the number you see on the roads I suspect I am not alone.

maidhc

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

That's a pretty obnoxious comment. My comments relate primarily to design and perceived quality issues, things that the competition (Renault (new Laguna), Passat, Mazda 6) seem to have nailed, so yes, as the competition improves my expectations are higher. There are too many elements about the new Mondeo that would irritate the hell out of me, and that rules it out. Judging by the number you see on the roads I suspect I am not alone.

Ford are selling them as quick as they can make them!

January deliverys were booked out last July from what i was told.

E92

maidhc wrote: »

Ford are selling them as quick as they can make them!

January deliverys were booked out last July from what i was told.

I'd believe that! It's a brand new car, only came out here last July(and very few people buy anything new between July and December), so effectively the car is only here a few weeks, and therefore it is completely unsurprising that there are so few around at the moment, but give it time and they will be everywhere, especially now that it has the all important 1.6, next month the FFV model is due to come in and is meant to be €3k cheaper than the regular 2.0 as it has it's 50% VRT rebate(which disappears in July of course), and from July there will be a brace of 20% VRT diesels!

ianobrien

What I know about Ford engine designs

1.8/2.0/2.3 Petrol Duratec is a Mazda designed unit, called I4 (not to be confused with the Ford designed I4 unit that was used in late twin cam Sierras and Mk5 Escort RS2000). I've seen a Duratec engine with a Mazda 2.3 block and timing chain cover, Ford Head and rocker cover, throttle bodies and 290 horsepower!

1.4/1.7 Zetec-S is a Yamaha designed engine

1.3 Endura engine is an updated Crossflow (which has it's roots in the Anglia!).

1.4/1.6/1.8/2.0 Petrol Zetec - all that engine is a twin cam head on a CVH engine

Cosworth Turbo is a twin cam head on a Pinto

I don't know much about diesels, but the small ones are PSA engines, and I believe that the big ones (2.0 & 2.2) are PSA designed engines.

Fords last diesel was the 1.8 unit that was fitted in the first Mondeo, I believe

If you want to check if the engine is a Ford designed unit, check the bellhousing pattern.

maidhc

ianobrien wrote: »

Fords last diesel was the 1.8 unit that was fitted in the first Mondeo, I believe

And made a comeback in the new mondeo! Vastly different of course, but still the same 1753cc cast block.

The 2.0 in the Mondeo is also a Ford Engine. The 2.0 in the Focus is a PSA one.

E92

maidhc wrote: »

And made a comeback in the new mondeo! Vastly different of course, but still the same 1753cc cast block.

The 2.0 in the Mondeo is also a Ford Engine. The 2.0 in the Focus is a PSA one.

What about the 2.2 engine in the Peuget 4007, 407 and a couple of other PSA cars? Is that based on the Ford designed 2.2 from the previous generation Mondeo, or is it based on the PSA 2.2 that came out years ago back when the 2.0 PSA HDi had 110 or 90 bhp?

And are the V6 and V8 diesels found in Land Rover, Jaguar, PSA from Ford or PSA?

I realise that the 1.4 and 1.6 diesels are PSA designed, as is the 2.0 in the Focus, C-Max and countless other cars as described above.

ianobrien

E92 wrote: »

What about the 2.2 engine in the Peuget 4007, 407 and a couple of other PSA cars? Is that based on the Ford designed 2.2 from the previous generation Mondeo, or is it based on the PSA 2.2 that came out years ago back when the 2.0 PSA HDi had 110 or 90 bhp?

I'm fairly sure that the 2.2 is based on the PSA2.2 block. There's probably a better breathing head on it.

E92 wrote: »

And are the V6 and V8 diesels found in Land Rover, Jaguar, PSA from Ford or PSA?

Their PSA engines (they're in the C6 as well)

groupb

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

That's a pretty obnoxious comment. My comments relate primarily to design and perceived quality issues, things that the competition (Renault (new Laguna), Passat, Mazda 6) seem to have nailed, so yes, as the competition improves my expectations are higher. There are too many elements about the new Mondeo that would irritate the hell out of me, and that rules it out. Judging by the number you see on the roads I suspect I am not alone.

In my experience , percieved quality (the passat I had) is always outshone by actual quality (the mondeo I had before it). I would bet that my 03' petrol1.8 zetec will be going strong long after the 07' 2.0tdi passat has been consigned to a scrapyard. If you want a used passat , go to a ford dealer.They seem to have quite a few. wonder why?

cyrusdvirus

03 1.8 Zetec.

92k on the clock. Going strong. Would love to buy one of the new models, but my own isn't hurting the pocket, so feck it, I'll probably drive it till it dies

E92

The Mk3 and Mk4 petrol Mondeos have Mazda engines for the most part, so the Mondeo should easily outperform the Passat on reliability.

groupb

gatecrash wrote: »

03 1.8 Zetec.

92k on the clock. Going strong. Would love to buy one of the new models, but my own isn't hurting the pocket, so feck it, I'll probably drive it till it dies[/QUOTE

92k. You're nearing the end of the running in period.