Educate me: in-ear monitors

Spicy Lauren

On a couple of occasions, while playing a gig I could barely hear my singing through the stage monitors, even though my voice usually is put up to the max in the wedges before feedback comes into action.

I should add to this that my amp is usually quite loud in the mix, and my drummer is a loud fecker on stage.

Would wearing in-ear monitors solve my problem?
What are the pros and cons?

Tata,

Lauren

Savman

Spicy Lauren wrote: »

Would wearing in-ear monitors solve my problem?

Yes.

What are the pros

See above.

cons?

None.

Spicy Lauren

Good stuff!
Now educate me about them Mister Savman. How do they work?

Savman

Spicy Lauren wrote: »

Good stuff!
Now educate me about them Mister Savman. How do they work?

Why don't you educate yourself? In this day and age there's really no excuse for not even attempting a Google search especially in the audio world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_ear_monitors

There's also an excellent article on IEM's on the Shure website which anyone considering them should download and read.

I have 3 vocalists who use IEMs, if you asked them now I'm sure none of them would ever go back.

Denalihighway

in fairness you can do all the trawling through websites you want (which one should to start with) but first hand experience with particular models and advice on pitfalls/ do's and don'ts is what's really valuable and that’s why she came on here. Every company is going to make theirs sound great so you can forget about just going to manufacturer websites to start with unless its to price an item you’re considering buying

For example you can get a feel for what your budget should be (which is very important) judging by peoples' experiences with different models etc. When yer starting from scratch its always nice to get a hand from the experienced folk.

I wouldn't mind knowing a few things myself if anyone else wants to be a bit more helpful? I can remember a large thread a while back about something similar, but that may have been about wireless systems not sure...

Can anyone recommend models they've found good? Or recommend ones ot avoid?

ps..I was looking for that download you were talking about on the Shure site Savman, there's a loada stuff up on that site and I can't find the one yer talking about specifically - can you gimme a link by any chance?

Spicy Lauren

Yes basically I'd like to know how it works.
How is it controlled by the sound man, what is the price range, and if anyone can advise me on which one to get/not to get.
I wouldn't spend a thousand quid on it for a start, but maybe about say 200-300 max, all i really want is to be able to hear myself singing properly while playing.
I heard of a drummer who almost got deafened by a sound engineer cos his in ear monitor was turn up too loud and started feeding back in his ear. Would this be an urban legend or can this really happen and if so, how can this be avoided?

unclebill98

IEM's systems...

I am one for telling people to go read about it and if then still stuck as away. But not to try do anything before asking is just lazy.

So,

Sound man send signal(mono/stereo) via aux to IEM unit. User tunes there IEM reciever into transmitters signal. Plugs headpones into reciever then into there ear and hay presto...sound.

My simple answer for the above questions are,

If you don't have your own sound engineer everytime your using it, DO NOT GET IEM's. You can simple turn away from a loud amp, its a lot harder to avoid it if its straight in your ear.

If your band is too loud, tell them to lay off. If its too loud for you can you imagine what the crowd/engineer is thinking.

Avoid cheap ones.

Make sure your unit is legal for Ireland.

Its not possible to feed back the IEM itself, it can pick up feedback from other sources and send them to your IEM.

Read the Shure article, i did and went with IEM's.

If there is a tread a while back to a search and read that.

Good ones are expensive, cheap one are crap.

Einstein

unclebill98 wrote: »

IEM's systems...

If you don't have your own sound engineer everytime your using it, DO NOT GET IEM's. You can simple turn away from a loud amp, its a lot harder to avoid it if its straight in your ear.

I disagree here dude, in fact i'd say the total opposite. If you have your own engineer he or she should actually listen to you because they're interested in getting you the onstage sound that you want. Unlike regular on stage wedges, you can have total control over your IEM's on stage. Ideal for venues that have lazy sound engineers that don't give a toss - which unfortunately means 98% of venues in Ireland. Your onstage sound is almost far more important than anything, as this will result in how well you play. I think I've met one maybe two engineers that come on stage while we were soundchecking to hear what needed to be done onstage.

unclebill98

Einstein wrote: »

I disagree here dude, in fact i'd say the total opposite. If you have your own engineer he or she should actually listen to you because they're interested in getting you the onstage sound that you want. Unlike regular on stage wedges, you can have total control over your IEM's on stage. Ideal for venues that have lazy sound engineers that don't give a toss - which unfortunately means 98% of venues in Ireland. Your onstage sound is almost far more important than anything, as this will result in how well you play. I think I've met one maybe two engineers that come on stage while we were soundchecking to hear what needed to be done onstage.

I am not sure you read my post right. If you have your own engineer, get IEM's. If not, don't.

I would never in a million years trust any engineer i did not know 1000000% to send me something into my IEM's. More bass please..hold on thats snare not bass argh!!!!!! WHAT??, sorry whats the next song, i can't hear you i am deaf!

Yes you have total control over your IEM's, but only if the engineer knows what he is doing and does it correct. A lazy engineer you say...so how, with a lazy engineer do you intend on getting your good IEM mix? Yes you can sound check them, but things change and you need something adjusted, lazy engineer man does nothing, you pull IEM out and suffer on!

Also, If you can not tell an engineer what you'd like on stage then there no point in him walking onto it and telling you!

I am not sure what level the OP is at. But i would never use an IEM system if theres more than 2-3 bands playing on some promo night.

IMHO, IEM's will only work for you if, you have/know your engineer. Its your own gig and maybe if its your own PA too.

Bringing in IEM to a already install PA system will result in you giving the engineer a nightmere have to re-route aux etc etc.. Chances are they'll just say no. Thats keeping the usual venues in Dublin in mind. Not the larger venues that would have dedicated stage monitoring desk to the side.

Einstein

No I see your point totally, but disagree with it, thats all!
My point is that IEM systems are controlled by the artist/band by their own preamp/headphone amp on stage and NOT the engineer. Hence the engineer can work on concentrating on front of house sound and not have to worry bout on stage sound.

See where I'm coming from?

Savman

Einstein wrote: »

No I see your point totally, but disagree with it, thats all!
My point is that IEM systems are controlled by the artist/band by their own preamp/headphone amp on stage and NOT the engineer. Hence the engineer can work on concentrating on front of house sound and not have to worry bout on stage sound.

See where I'm coming from?

Quite frankly, no. If a lazy half arsed engineer cannot get you a good wedge mix then he is is not qualified to operate IEM's. You might think "ah sure grand I have my own volume knob" but who controls what goes to your receiver pack? It's certainly not you anyway, all that is routed and mixed at the desk in a similar manner to mixing wedges. If you want to put your hearing in the hands of a stranger, you go right ahead.

The Shure guide I mentioned is not some marketing shpeel, it is a very practical guide to the benefits of IEM's over standard wedges, how to operate IEM's and generally tons and tons of vitally important information. For anyone considering making the leap it is absolutely essential reading and will cover so much more than any of us on here can. It's on the Shure site somewhere or at least it was until recently. Even still there is a plethora of info on the FAQ section, questions like
"What is an IEM?" and "How does it all work?" have been asked, and answered, time and time again.

If the OP, or anyone, cares to discuss specific models etc I'd be more than happy to chime in but you'll forgive us if some of us don't respond to this "educate me" approach. Knowledge is power, especially when one's hearing is at stake, equip yourself with as much info as you can.

IEM's are easy to rig and very simple to work with, but if you're idea of doing this is to simply circumvent a bogey soundman well then I'm afraid you're going from the frying pan into the fire.

unclebill98

Einstein wrote: »

No I see your point totally, but disagree with it, thats all!
My point is that IEM systems are controlled by the artist/band by their own preamp/headphone amp on stage and NOT the engineer. Hence the engineer can work on concentrating on front of house sound and not have to worry bout on stage sound.

See where I'm coming from?

Nope,

The singal getting sent to your IEM is not controlled by you. Unless its a high end tour and you have your own signals sent to a mix'ing desk beside you. But only Drummers and fixed location musicians only really have them, and again its not something you'll find everywhere. Whom ever is in charge of on stage sound controls your IEM mix. You only have control over the volume to your ears and turning the thing on or off.

Hence my original opinion of not getting them if you do not know your engineer.

Eoin Madsen

Frank Cass made a point of advising me against cheaper in-ear systems in terms of aural health. Subsequent research has not led me to distrust him in that regard. I think in-ears are definitely the way to go if you can afford it. But personally, I'd want to be sure there's a seriously ass-kicking limiter between my ears and everything else. And they have to be able to block out a lot of outside noise if they're going on a stage. Ignoring one-off accidents or transient spikes in the PA system, threshold shift is cumulative, and the quickest way to win the prize is putting speakers inside your ears.

You want a good system and a good engineer.