Change of house type planning permission

sas

Not terribly relevant to me but something I'm curious about. I've seen several applications for a "Change of house type" planning applications. Mostly for estates but some are for one offs.

Would these applications be treated as full applications and all current development plan details be applied or as an amendment to an existing granted permission?

Reading some of the applications from the council planning site I it would appear that they are treated differently to new applications independant of any other. Common sense would suggest this because if I have planning for house type A and house type B would also be acceptable in the same setting, then refusing permission for the change is fruitless i.e. there is going to be a house there either way.

And if you were refused, I assume the existing planning permission remains intact?

bauderline

I went down this route to change my PP from a 2100 sq ft dormer to a 5800 sq ft 1.5 storey house over basement !

As far as I can establish you have a head start in that planning permission already exists on the site and the local needs criteria does not have to be met if it is in existance.

However when evaluating any new proposal they are perfectly within their rights to apply their current design stategy / practices. A notice will need to go in the paper and the usual third parties will need to be notified and will have the chance to make submissions.

If permission is refused the original planning consent WILL remain valid.

One thing I have seen conflicting reports on is that the date of expiry of the original planning consent still applies to the new consent if granted. I was told that the original date will apply. However when my permission was granted I got the full five years... maybe someone was asleep at the wheel....

That's my take anyway....

baud.

Mellor

Each planning would have a separate date, and the second doesn't over ride the first either. You can recieve the go ahead for the second and then build the first.

mickdw

Mellor wrote: »

Each planning would have a separate date, and the second doesn't over ride the first either. You can recieve the go ahead for the second and then build the first.

Would depend on the wording of the application, if you reference the original planning, and apply for changes to the design, it is possible that they will retain the original date.
Also if its a case that due to policy changes they are not now in favour of development on your site, they will certainly tie you to the original date.

sydthebeat

mickdw wrote: »

Would depend on the wording of the application, if you reference the original planning, and apply for changes to the design, it is possible that they will retain the original date.
Also if its a case that due to policy changes they are not now in favour of development on your site, they will certainly tie you to the original date.

Its very possible that if you dont refer to the previous granted permission, they will invalidate the application.

Ive often seen incorrect dates put on planning applications. Its a legal matter as to when the permission actually expires, i know this from experience. The final grant permission is a legal document.

I have seen a case where the council 'forgot' to issue the final grant for 2 years after the notification of decision..... the structure was built and operating when eventually they received the final grant.. and the permission was applicable for 5 years from the date of the final grant issue... :eek:

I have also seen cases of change of house type been given a further 5 years from date of final grant......

I also saw a case of an approval permission under the old regs being given an extra 5 years from date of approval permission:eek::)

Councils often mess these up.

muffler

Mellor wrote: »

Each planning would have a separate date, and the second doesn't over ride the first either. You can recieve the go ahead for the second and then build the first.

I dont think thats strictly correct. If permission is granted for a change of house type then the time frame of the original permission stays in situ AFAIK. The permission is not granted for an extension of duration therefore the original date applies.

I dont believe you can revert to the first permission either as a grant of permission in respect of a change of house type means that the development must be carried out in accordance with the 2nd permission or if you like the last permitted use which would be the design approved under the 2nd permission.

sydthebeat

I must disagree there muffler.
You can revert to the original design if you decide not to act on the change of house design permission. Its similar to getting permission for a change of use and not enacting it..... the original use stays the same.
All the particulars to the original permission apply though...

muffler

sydthebeat wrote: »

I must disagree there muffler.
You can revert to the original design if you decide not to act on the change of house design permission. Its similar to getting permission for a change of use and not enacting it..... the original use stays the same.
All the particulars to the original permission apply though...

We will agree to disagree so. If the second application was refused then you would automatically revert to the first. And there is no problem in reverting back to the first permission subject to obtaining written permission from the Planning Authority.

However the second permission will refer to the revised plan which is the "last approved". You cant have permission for 2 different houses on the same site at the same time.

sydthebeat

ok, we will disagree...;)

Mellor

mickdw wrote: »

Would depend on the wording of the application, if you reference the original planning, and apply for changes to the design, it is possible that they will retain the original date.
Also if its a case that due to policy changes they are not now in favour of development on your site, they will certainly tie you to the original date.

As pointed out you may HAVE to reference the original PP.
Secondly, my comments were in relation to a large change and the PP being an independent application. This is what my understanding of the OPs query and also the second post.

muffler wrote: »

I dont think thats strictly correct. If permission is granted for a change of house type then the time frame of the original permission stays in situ AFAIK. The permission is not granted for an extension of duration therefore the original date applies.

I dont believe you can revert to the first permission either as a grant of permission in respect of a change of house type means that the development must be carried out in accordance with the 2nd permission or if you like the last permitted use which would be the design approved under the 2nd permission.

Slightly different situation. I was refering to a significant change that results in a new PP application. Re-reading the OP I see the change of house type is highlighted, so my comments were towards a change that results in a new full PP. It may not be suitable to go the change of house type route and a new PP may be required, in that case you could have two dates and two permissions.

I might edit my first post to make it clear what I was refering to. Saves confusion

gally74

on a positive note, we got our C2 through on a "change of house plans." last week.

original date carries over from the first planning,

waiting on the C3 now,

p

rok

sorry for dragging up an old thread, I know its frowned upon sometimes,
but the thread is very "relevant to my interests"..

Can anyone tell me the difference between a "change of house plans" mentioned in last post and a "Change of house type" ?
Is a "change of house plans" a modification?
Can a "change of house plans" be made for a "minor" change without the requirement for a new planning application?


....
edit to add: I searched many L.A. websites for information on the above but no joy

muffler

rok wrote: »

sorry for dragging up an old thread, I know its frowned upon sometimes,
but the thread is very "relevant to my interests"..

Can anyone tell me the difference between a "change of house plans" mentioned in last post and a "Change of house type" ?
Is a "change of house plans" a modification?
Can a "change of house plans" be made for a "minor" change without the requirement for a new planning application?


....
edit to add: I searched many L.A. websites for information on the above but no joy

Change of house type = change of house plan. If you are making a formal application it will be for "change of house type from that previously approved under grant of permission reference no xxxxx". You should check the exact wording with either your own architect/technician or alternatively ring the local planning office.

Donegal Co. Council operate a minor amendment system but there would be very few other councils that do this. In any event a change of house plan/design wouldn't be classed as minor.

RKQ

"Change of house type" is no longer acceptable to Wexford County Council, according to a circular issued by the Council. They feel the Planning Acts allow for Full Permission, Outline Permission or Retention Permission.:eek:

No mention of "change of House type!" in the Acts, according to the Council.

Technically if you follow this line of argument then all previous "change of House plan / types" granted by the Council may be illegal if the mechanism doesn't exist in planning law for a change of house plan:)

muffler

RKQ wrote: »

"Change of house type" is no longer acceptable to Wexford County Council, according to a circular issued by the Council. They feel the Planning Acts allow for Full Permission, Outline Permission or Retention Permission.:eek:

No mention of "change of House type!" in the Acts, according to the Council.

Technically if you follow this line of argument then all previous "change of House plan / types" granted by the Council may be illegal if the mechanism doesn't exist in planning law for a change of house plan:)

Strange indeed.

How would they handle an application for say a sun room that is proposed to built to a house that has previously received permission but the works have not yet started on it. Or maybe even the same scenario where the work s to the house are ongoing

In our neck of the woods it would be a simple case of "construction of sun room to previously approved house" or "previously approved house under construction" depending on the situation.

sydthebeat

RKQ wrote: »

"Change of house type" is no longer acceptable to Wexford County Council, according to a circular issued by the Council. They feel the Planning Acts allow for Full Permission, Outline Permission or Retention Permission.:eek:

No mention of "change of House type!" in the Acts, according to the Council.

Technically if you follow this line of argument then all previous "change of House plan / types" granted by the Council may be illegal if the mechanism doesn't exist in planning law for a change of house plan:)

in laois we just apply for 'full permission for change of house type...etc"

RKQ

muffler wrote: »

In our neck of the woods it would be a simple case of "construction of sun room to previously approved house" or "previously approved house under construction" depending on the situation.

Same in wexford but no Change of House Type, so if a dormer was granted it would not be possible to apply for a two storey or bungalow as a change at €34 fee. Nothing wrong with applying for full permission for dwelling at €65 fee. (all new application - sightlines, landscape, EPA test etc)

With a change of house type you used to be able to use the old soil test etc, as the house design was the only change.

Maybe change of house type was being used too often, to use a SR6 test when the dearer EPA test was introduced - can't remember.

No6

RKQ wrote: »

"Change of house type" is no longer acceptable to Wexford County Council, according to a circular issued by the Council. They feel the Planning Acts allow for Full Permission, Outline Permission or Retention Permission.:eek:

No mention of "change of House type!" in the Acts, according to the Council.

Technically if you follow this line of argument then all previous "change of House plan / types" granted by the Council may be illegal if the mechanism doesn't exist in planning law for a change of house plan:)

I currently have a change of house type under appeal (third party) I'll let you all know what the boards decision is on it. I was told be a friend of mine about the wexford situation which wouldn't help my case. I would agree with you RKQ, changes of house type applications are very common here in Mayo, so if wexford are right there may be a lot of possibly unauthorised / illegal development about!!:eek: