Captain aborts take-off due to mobile phones

therecklessone

http://www.smh.com.au/news/news/captain-aborts-takeoff-over-mobile-phones/2008/01/21/1200764129096.html

Three passengers on an Alitalia airline flight from Milan were arrested after they failed to heed requests to turn off their mobile phones.

The Alitalia captain, who had already asked three times for passengers to switch off their mobiles, aborted take-off at the last minute because he noticed interference with the plane's navigation instruments, Italian newspapers reported today.

Police boarded the plane at Milan-Linas airport and arrested the three offending passengers identified by the flight crew.

The three face prosecution for failing to observe safety regulations and are liable to up to three months in jail.

The plane was finally able to take off for Bari an hour and a half later yesterday morning.

pclancy

Weird. What exactly did he notice I wonder that could have been caused by a mobile phone?

ian_m

Possibly heard the pulsing caused by mobiles over the radio.

pclancy

Nice. Whats the going rate for fines to passengers that cause an aborted landing?

kona

great, ingnorant rude assholes.
not only can you cause a accident, i dont want to hear a conversation between two idiots, planes are cramped enough:D

Steyr

Idiots.

WexCan

Good man.

stepbar

I dispair to think that (in the near future) you will be able to use mobiles on aircrafts

Davidth88

This is brilliant !

I wish more captains would do it.

I find more and more people are ignoring the ' phones off ' rule. Now it does not help that some airlines allow you to use them until take off ( Emarites ) and others as soon as the doors are closed ( Aer Lingus among others ).

I work in the telecoms industry but I HATE mobiles !

pclancy

Lol. Eventually it could be as bad as Dublin Bus where the in thing amoungst skangers is to get on with your phone blaring the latest pop music crap from its speaker just in case the music in your head stopped for a second. Imagine that on board a 737!

peter1892

pclancy wrote: »

Lol. Eventually it could be as bad as Dublin Bus where the in thing amoungst skangers is to get on with your phone blaring the latest pop music crap from its speaker just in case the music in your head stopped for a second. Imagine that on board a 737!

Actually that sounds exactly like the last flight I took (which was on a 737)...

Fabio

I thought it only happened on the no.2 bus route here in Cork! Idiots....

As for phones on planes....nooooo! After a while they'd probably just ban them in first class and charge you extra for the priviledge of some silence!

robinph

Which navigation equipment was playing up for him then, or did he just make that bit up after the stewardess called him for back up to sort out some unruley passengers?

And how come it doesn't get interference on every single other flight as well as there is going to be at least one mobile left switched on in someones hand luggage on every flight these days yet no planes have yet fallen out of the sky because of it.

Stark

Fabio wrote: »

As for phones on planes....nooooo! After a while they'd probably just ban them in first class and charge you extra for the priviledge of some silence!

I can see business class being the worst place for the phones, with all the workaholic business types nattering away on them.

Maximilian

Apparently the navigation system began to ring and continued to do so another seven times before adjusting the flightpath to Bananaphone. Pretty serios IMO.

WexCan

robinph wrote: »

Which navigation equipment was playing up for him then, or did he just make that bit up after the stewardess called him for back up to sort out some unruley passengers?

And how come it doesn't get interference on every single other flight as well as there is going to be at least one mobile left switched on in someones hand luggage on every flight these days yet no planes have yet fallen out of the sky because of it.

The cabin crew suggestion is the most likely candidate to be honest.

My airline had an incident on the ground a while ago where the coms radio picked up some interference (like your car radio) and they missed a stop instruction from ATC.

Asking people to switch off electronic devices is not just about interference, it's about distraction as well. Someone who's, say, using their laptop or watching a portable DVD player, are not going to be as quick to get out if needs be.

Del2005

WexCan wrote: »

Asking people to switch off electronic devices is not just about interference, it's about distraction as well. Someone who's, say, using their laptop or watching a portable DVD player, are not going to be as quick to get out if needs be.

And what if they are asleep, will they ban that also?;)

Stark

Ryanair have already started with their damn in flight ads played at loud volume.

notuslimited

Returning from LHR on EI173/22 Jan. The guy beside was busily tapping away on his Blackberry up until the Aircraft rotated. Felt like ramming the BB down his throat.

WexCan

Del2005 wrote: »

And what if they are asleep, will they ban that also?;)

It's a case of making the best possible effort to be honest. We're not going to stop someone reading a book or sleeping, though it would be great if people weren't distracted during takeoff/landing at all.

It's also shocking how many people ignore the safety demonstration (while using laptops etc) and then, if asked, have no idea where their nearest exit is.

Ruu_Old

Good to see, sick and tired of gob****es who think they are too important and can't put down the phone for a few hours.

Tenger

robinph wrote: »

And how come it doesn't get interference on every single other flight as well as there is going to be at least one mobile left switched on in someones hand luggage on every flight these days yet no planes have yet fallen out of the sky because of it.

A good point there. Why not stop using your seatbelt when driving if you have never needed it?
And falling out of the sky is a worst case scenario. How about missing calls from ATC (which has happened on an Ibera flight,blame seems to be transmitting devices onboard) or undirected movement of flight control surfaces? It has not been proven that mobiles etc DO NOT interfere with instruments onboard so airlines ban their use.

Yes mobile may still be 'on' in some suitcases and/or handbags.It is simply not feasible to enforce this by individual checks. But the logic behind most airline rules is to minimise risk on an aircraft.The problem with mobiles on inflight isn't necessarily that pax use them its that when your phone has no signal its keeps searching for a signal thus greatly increasing the transmissions that happen therefore increasing the (seemingly small) chance of interfering with cockpit/aircraft instruments.
Now I have always believed that you could throw a stone at a B737 (only Boeing I've worked on) without it noticing. However the Airbii have these little cables under the cabin floor which send electronic signals to the flight controls. Thus the signals to be interfered with are not merely in the cockpit but under your seat.

Those 3 pax were not neccesarily arrested for using their mobiles. The disobeyed a direct order from the commander of the aircraft being delivered by the cabin crew. By doing so they broke a rule of the air. I don't get angry at pax who have devices on as they may not know the rules however I do get angry at pax who completely ignore requests and/or instructions from crew. (not just in this regard)
Most people are aware of the rule and the cabin crews do announce it several times but you regularly get pricks who believe it doesn't apply to them. And to combat the people who don't speak english I learnt how to say it in Polish and Latvian!
I recently flew with FR and when told (firmly) to do so I turned off my camera on approach even though there are no transmitting elements to it, I could have argued with the crewmember but didn't as they are just doing their job,which sometimes entails enforcing a rule that many people think is stupid and beneath them.

robinph

It was totally correct for them to have been arrested for disobeying the crew and they should have had their phones turned off anyway. What I would dispute though is where the pilot was claiming that his navigation equipment was getting interference due to these passengers phones, that is the part that I wouldn't belive and reckon he just made it up to try and add weight to his turfing them off the plane. It was right for them to get thrown off/ arrested but he didn't need to make stuff up about the interference to justify their removal.

Tenger

robinph wrote: »

It was totally correct for them to have been arrested for disobeying the crew and they should have had their phones turned off anyway. .................................It was right for them to get thrown off/ arrested but he didn't need to make stuff up about the interference to justify their removal.

Considering the paprework and question that pilot will now have to go through I don't beleive this was a simple case of 'throwing his weight around' offloading pax is a rare occurance due to the hassle it generates. In 10 years of flying I have got a total of 3 pax off-loaded. These pax were wilfully disobeying instructions from the crew.

-aboutagirl-

I was on a flight from Dublin to Manchester last week and three guys in the seats across the aisle had their phones on the whole trip. They weren't even remotely discreet about it, receiving message moments before take off and repeatedly using the phones despite being told on numerous occassions by cabin crew to turn them off. I've never seen people being so selfish and rude on a flight before. Would it kill them to turn off the phone for 40mins?

Bob the Builder

-aboutagirl- wrote: »

Would it kill them to turn off the phone for 40mins?

Apparently so.

I must admit, I am a culprate for having an MP3 player on a flight, but the music is often very low, and I am sure nobody else can hear it. As regards phones, I actually want to get away from them when I'm on a flight. I play sudoku or start writing things, but it's just nice to get away from technology.

The worst thing about phones is that you can tell that your flying over a different country when 20 phones start buzzing with welcome messages from all the networks.

axer

Bramble wrote: »

It has not been proven that mobiles etc DO NOT interfere with instruments onboard so airlines ban their use.

It is very hard to prove that something does not do something. Has it ever been proven that mobiles do cause interference with instruments onboard an aircraft?

Stark

Well we already know that mobiles cause a pulsing noise over radios and the like. Now that might be tolerable with one or two phones, but if a plane full of people had their mobiles switched on, then I imagine it would make it nearly impossible to use the radio or the announcement system. Especially as the mobiles would be constantly searching for a network.

Darwin

axer wrote: »

It is very hard to prove that something does not do something. Has it ever been proven that mobiles do cause interference with instruments onboard an aircraft?

There is some anecdotal evidence from pilots that phones do cause disruption to various systems including the Instrument Landing System (ILS) - see here

axer

Darwin wrote: »

There is some anecdotal evidence from pilots that phones do cause disruption to various systems including the Instrument Landing System (ILS) - see here

If mobiles did cause problems then how come there hasn't been studies done to prove it rather than just anecdotal evidence.

Stark

:rolleyes:

There's a link in that thread to a study showing that mobile phones cause interference. Your phone won't work at altitude anyway, is it that much of an imposition to keep the thing switched off?

*Kol*

Stark wrote: »

:rolleyes:

There's a link in that thread to a study showing that mobile phones cause interference. Your phone won't work at altitude anyway, is it that much of an imposition to keep the thing switched off?

On a long flight maybe. It's good to talk....

axer

Stark wrote: »

:rolleyes:

There's a link in that thread to a study showing that mobile phones cause interference. Your phone won't work at altitude anyway, is it that much of an imposition to keep the thing switched off?

Aye, I see that study which suggests that a mobile phone at full power 30cms from equipment could cause some anomalies. Boeing has performed many tests and have not being able to see a correlation between PEDs and interference with instruments onboard an aircraft.

I also see that most pilot headsets that are sold have a cell phone adapter to allow the pilot to use his/her mobile phone through the headset.

Stark wrote: »

Your phone won't work at altitude anyway, is it that much of an imposition to keep the thing switched off?

Some people use their phones more for other things than talking i.e. music, video, games, office work etc.

The point being that people over re-act to the not switching off of mobiles in flight when they have never been proven to cause interference.

Stark

axer wrote: »

Some people use their phones more for other things than talking i.e. music, video, games, office work etc.

The point being that people over re-act to the not switching off of mobiles in flight when they have never been proven to cause interference.

Many phones have a "flight mode" for when you want to use them for those purposes.

axer

Stark wrote: »

Many phones have a "flight mode" for when you want to use them for those purposes.

Yes and a flight attendant will still ask you to turn it off completely hence my comment about people over-reacting.

*Kol*

Stark wrote: »

Many phones have a "flight mode" for when you want to use them for those purposes.

That should be called the useless mode.

axer wrote: »

Yes and a flight attendant will still ask you to turn it off completely hence my comment about people over-reacting.

True. Normally though they insist on all devices being off during the take off and landing phases (just in case). Outside of these phases if they ask you to turn it off there is no point in arguing and trying to explain flight mode. You will be probably cuffed and labelled and air rage pax!!

I don't think there is much evidence to suggest that mobile phone interfere greatly with aircraft systems. Some airlines are introducing systems that will allow pax to use their mobile phones on board during a flight. Potentially every person on the aircraft could have a phone switched on.

Oilrig

Slightly different angle...

I once had a job that included 24/7 e-mail (>2000 a month) working with people all over the globe ie someone was always awake while I was sleeping etc.

Flying was the only chance I could shut it all down - legitimately. As soon as I arrived at an airport I killed my cell phone, pure bliss

Complete contrast to the tossers with the laptops on the DUB/LHR sector.

Bob the Builder

Oilrig wrote: »

Slightly different angle...

I once had a job that included 24/7 e-mail (>2000 a month) working with people all over the globe ie someone was always awake while I was sleeping etc.

Flying was the only chance I could shut it all down - legitimately. As soon as I arrived at an airport I killed my cell phone, pure bliss

Complete contrast to the tossers with the laptops on the DUB/LHR sector.

It is very nice to get away from technology for a while. I think in an airplane, there aren't much room for laptops, thats the bit that pisses me off... when people cramp big laptops and have their elbows sticking out either side poking you in the side as they reach for the mouse.

andrewh5

Del2005 wrote: »

And what if they are asleep, will they ban that also?;)

Prior to take off and landing passengers aren't allowed to sleep

*Kol*

Emirates claims first commercial in-flight mobile voice call
David Kaminski-Morrow, London (20Mar08, 09:54 GMT, 477 words)


Middle Eastern carrier Emirates is claiming to have enabled the first authorised in-flight mobile phone call on a commercial service, following installation of technology developed by AeroMobile.

The first call took place today on flight EK751, an Airbus A340-300 operating between Dubai and Casablanca. Passengers were granted permission to make and receive voice calls and text messages.

AeroMobile chief Bjorn-Taale Sandberg says: “We have gone to considerable lengths to ensure that all safety and regulatory issues have been fully addressed, so we are pleased that Emirates has been able to join us in being first past the post in offering a full voice-call service.”

Emirates required three fundamental components to allow the call to take place: supplementary type certification for the aircraft – granted with support from the European Aviation Safety Agency – plus operating procedures approved by the United Arab Emirates’ General Civil Aviation Authority, and telecom regulatory clearance for each country overflown.

This last point has been crucial to the take-up of the technology. Emirates is co-ordinating the deployment of aircraft fitted with the system to match routes on which telecom approval has already been secured – notably within the Middle East and towards Asia-Pacific destinations.

Emirates is fitting the equipment across its fleet because it has experienced strong demand for the in-seat phones already installed on its aircraft. The airline says its passengers make up to 7,000 calls per month using these phones. Other Middle Eastern carriers – including Saudi Arabian Airlines, Royal Jordanian Airlines and Jazeera Airways – have also opted to install in-flight phone capability, either through AeroMobile or its competitor OnAir.

“We’re working on a substantial number of Emirates routes, on a city-pair basis,” says AeroMobile director of marketing David Coiley. He says that while the A340-300 is deployed on a relatively limited number of routes, because there are only eight in Emirates’ fleet, the carrier has also equipped a Boeing 777-300 with the system, potentially offering broader availability.

“Emirates is rolling out the system in accordance with the heavy maintenance schedule of its aircraft,” Coiley adds, pointing out that installation of the system has not required an extension to the on-ground time.

AeroMobile’s system will automatically be configured to activate only on routes for which Emirates has regulatory clearance. The system is designed to come into operation at a minimum altitude of 3,000m (9,800ft), although Coiley says AeroMobile is looking at a threshold of 5,000m (16,400ft) to “give some wiggle-room” with respect to preventing interference with ground systems.

Emirates passengers are being instructed to switch phones to ‘silent’ mode during flights as part of the on-board etiquette. The airline’s cabin crew will also be able to monitor and control the system for the duration of the flight.

Later this year the system’s capability will be extended to enable Emirates passengers to use personal e-mail devices. It will also be integrated with Emirates’ in-flight entertainment system.

Tenger

axer wrote: »

It is very hard to prove that something does not do something. Has it ever been proven that mobiles do cause interference with instruments onboard an aircraft?

Yes it has never been proven EITHER way. Airlines therefore take the safest option and ask that all mobile phones are turned off.

There needs to be a comprehensive study done by and international body to verify the impact of phones and then all/most airlines can use this as a baseline.

Stark wrote: »

Many phones have a "flight mode" for when you want to use them for those purposes.

And if you have read your instruction manual it will state that while 'Flight mode' is an option you must comply with any regulations and/or instructions from the airline.

*Kol* wrote: »

Normally though they insist on all devices being off during the take off and landing phases (just in case). Outside of these phases if they ask you to turn it off there is no point in arguing and trying to explain flight mode.

Different airlines have different rules concerning flight mode. By flying with an airline, you are agreeing to all conditions of carriage which includes obeying all instructions given by the crew. I know exactly what flight mode but would not want to try to cuff and detain you. I enforce that rule however at the same time I have requested my airline reassesses its decision on the use of flight mode. Its the same in theory as having your seatbelt loosely fastened at all times,something might happen and we want you to be protected.

Mint Sauce

the flight mode aguement is a good one, if a flight attendent sees a mobilephone in use, weather flight mode is on or not, and its only been used for the camera, MP3 player etc, the flight attendent is still responsible for the safety and comfort of the passengers under the direction of the captian, and dont think its up to the user to prove if its in flight mode or not, but to just switch it off when asked

i'm lost without my phone, but cant stand them sometimes in confinded spaces, when i get on to a plane, i just want to chill out, have no distraction and close my eyes, think i would go mad if had someone nattering away into a phone beside me

*Kol*

Bramble wrote: »

Yes it has never been proven EITHER way. Airlines therefore take the safest option and ask that all mobile phones are turned off.

There needs to be a comprehensive study done by and international body to verify the impact of phones and then all/most airlines can use this as a baseline.



And if you have read your instruction manual it will state that while 'Flight mode' is an option you must comply with any regulations and/or instructions from the airline.



Different airlines have different rules concerning flight mode. By flying with an airline, you are agreeing to all conditions of carriage which includes obeying all instructions given by the crew. I know exactly what flight mode but would not want to try to cuff and detain you. I enforce that rule however at the same time I have requested my airline reassesses its decision on the use of flight mode. Its the same in theory as having your seatbelt loosely fastened at all times,something might happen and we want you to be protected.

Your airline may decide to introduce a system wherby mobile phones can be used on board like Emirates. It would appear that this will be the trend in the future for airlines to have systems like this.

Obviously a lot of testing goes into systems like these which would support the argument that mobile phones dont cause interference.

Btw thx for wanting us all to be protected. It's reassuring.

brav

Well its another step closer:

Ofcom approves mobiles on aircrafts

Oilrig

Ofcom approval is a long long way from EASA "allowing it to happen".

Read the details. Its a non event.

Tenger

*Kol* wrote: »

Btw thx for wanting us all to be protected. It's reassuring.

Glad you believed the public face I present! To be honest I just don't want to have to fill out the blasted paperwork often associated with injured passengers.


In the future I can see most aircraft being fitted with the technology that acts as a mini cell network. This accepts the mobile phone signals and 'beams' them from the aircraft to a receiving station thus allowing a limlited number of passengers at a time to use their phones. Ryanair have stated that they would be interested in such a system.
I for one wouldn't mind allowing pax to use phones as long as they were on silent mode. I friggin hate being on a bus with a loud annoying tone going off every 30 seconds as they conduct a text conversation.

brav

They will probably charge extra to use the service(if possible?), at least it will stop some of the kids sending 10 texts a minute.

But as Oilrig said, still a good bit away yet, but I think it will definatly happen

brav

Oilrig wrote: »

Ofcom approval is a long long way from EASA "allowing it to happen".

Read the details. Its a non event.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7334372.stm
looks like it will be here before the end of the year anyway.


[edit] Sorry already posted [/edit]