BMW 316 - Advice?

Timmins

Hi,

My 17th birthday is soon enough and i'm saving for a BMW 316 at the moment, an E36. I decided to post this topic to get other users' opinions on the car, what year i should look for, what kind of milage is acceptable, what price range i should look out for, and if there are any commonplace faults with these cars that i should be aware of. All help is appreciated, thanks!

t1mm

Andrewf20

Did you get insurance estimates yet for the car?

Timmins

I was looking at a 316 on carzone.ie, pressed "get an insurance quote for this car" and filled in all the details - 2072 was displayed, which is less than i had expected to be honest.

Andrewf20

Thats not a bad quote. I payed 2800euro for a 1.25 Fiesta, aged 24 on a provisional, 0 yrs NCB.

Some good advice here:

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/index.htm?md=33

DublinDilbert

What sort of budget have you got in mind for maintenance?

They are quite reliable, the M43 engine which was in all the 316i from the mid night onwards (also used in the early E46's) is quite reliable.... its going to be the little things which will go with high millage, trailing arm bushes, ball joints, rear shock mounts, rear wheel bearings ect... if your not going to work on the car yourself these will all cost you.

Also if you do get one might be worth changing the thermostat and water pump, if they haven't been done, like all old cars the cooling system is usually a weak point, which if the engine overheats will cost you.

A lot of people here will tell you not to bother as they are a little sluggish, which they are, although i think they are fine....

cianclarke

Would be interested in hearing too, as I'm looking to upgrade from my Passat to a 2000 facelift model 316i, the 1.9 litre version.
On paper it seems a little more sluggish than my 1.6litre passat, but surely that can't be the case?
Not looking for a jet, because all the insurance company will cover me on is the 316 - not the 318, alas...

Timmins

Thanks for the advice and link Andrew, do you own a 316 yourself?

DublinDilbert: I don't intend on spending the cost of the car in repairs, i'm looking for a nice, non scanger car. Speed and power aren't my main concerns to be honest, though. What kind of money do you think i'd be spending altogether on all those parts, assuming i fit them myself? I'm friends with quite a few mechanics and am willing to learn myself, so it shouldn't be a problem.

gally

Was going to buy one.Did a lot of research and was put off by the potential expensive problems.Local BMW agent in Killarney gave them up and now sells Fords.It seems the Kerry roads "did,nt suit um"

DublinDilbert

Timmins wrote: »

Thanks for the advice and link Andrew, do you own a 316 yourself?

DublinDilbert: I don't intend on spending the cost of the car in repairs, i'm looking for a nice, non scanger car. Speed and power aren't my main concerns to be honest, though. What kind of money do you think i'd be spending altogether on all those parts, assuming i fit them myself? I'm friends with quite a few mechanics and am willing to learn myself, so it shouldn't be a problem.

I had a 316i myself for 3 years and the engine in it never missed a beat... As the millage went up above the 120K mark i had to replace a lot of the things i outlined above...

Depending on where you are you should be able to get parts fairly cheap ( eg otto and gsf ) and if you don't mind fitting them yourself your sorted... Its also not a bad car to learn on....

Some aspects of the E36 with the M43 engine are better than the E46 with the same engine, for example on the E46 they replaced all the traditional hoses and clips, to hoses with push fittings ( basically so they could assemble the car quicker ). The downside is that the 'o' rings go in these fittings, but BMW will not sell you an 'o' ring, so you end up having to buy a complete new pipe, or try source the correct 'o' ring which probably isn't advisable....

gally

I forgot to mention that I ended up buying a Honda Accord Sport for about the same money.Best car I,ve ever had.Only niggle is that a fair bit of road noise enters the cabin probably caused by the wide low profile tyres on alloys which are standard on the Sport.I know the Beemer looks nice,drives nice but there are other options out there!

Timmins

My brother seems to be confident that these cars are particularly prone to problems, and that i'll end up pouring money into it. Maybe its just luck of the draw, and his friends were on the bad side of it? I've had my heart set on one of these for years, but maybe it isn't the best choice, hopefully some more people will post here and give there opinions.

DublinDilbert, how much did you end up selling yours for? Would you be able to provide a guide price which i should follow?

Thanks again!

DublinDilbert

Timmins wrote: »

My brother seems to be confident that these cars are particularly prone to problems, and that i'll end up pouring money into it. Maybe its just luck of the draw, and his friends were on the bad side of it? I've had my heart set on one of these for years, but maybe it isn't the best choice, hopefully some more people will post here and give there opinions.

DublinDilbert, how much did you end up selling yours for? Would you be able to provide a guide price which i should follow?

Thanks again!

I got 4K on a trade in 1.5 years ago.... mine wasn't in bad condition and everything on it worked... also it almost had 2 years remaining on the NCT.

mick.fr

Bimmers can cause problems if the history of the car is bad.
During the lifetime of a bimmer several things needs to be done to avoid permanent parts failure.

Before considering buying one, make sure you can see the history book and invoices. If the seller is not able to provide them, forget about the car, even if the price is attractive, you will probably end up with a faulty part (or parts) in the next little while.

For example, things to make sure before buying a bimmer:

- All inspection services done (Oil change/filters change etc..).
- Cooling system liquids replaced.
- Transmission liquid and filter changed every 60k miles.
- Cooling parts changed at 100k miles such as Water Pump, radiator etc..
- Sparks, battery changed and when.
- Injectors changed.
- Brake fluid change and when.

And a few other good things that I probably forgot.

Andrewf20

Timmins wrote: »

Thanks for the advice and link Andrew, do you own a 316 yourself?

I have an old E36 323i. Dublin Dilbert and Mick.Fr have outlined pretty much all I was going to say, but just be prepared for the catalytic converter to go if the car is around 10 years old. Its common for them to go after around 10 years and you will have to change it as the car feels about 50% down on power and gets worse with time. I got a genuine BMW one which cost me 1130 euro, but you can get new spurious ones for around half that, but they last half the time roughly, say 5 years. Definetly check that the cooling system is in good condition, no mayonaise colours in the oil, no rough running, coolant topped up, engine temp gauge coming up to temp without issues etc. Also, the rear brake lines corrode and usually fail the NCT after about 10 years also. Mine failed this year. Pipe & hose replacement cost me 430 euros in Robert Furleys. Rear bushings tend to fail after 10 year also. Mine did costing me 250euro to replace. Id reckon, to budget 1000euro a year for non standard maintenance (i.e stuff other than oil changes etc)

The 4 cylinder E36's are great handlers, Ive heard from many folks. Go look for a non moded straight one with decent service history for a start.

Id enquire about this since it has FSH & NCT till Jul 2009: http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=842492

bazz26

I would try and stretch to at least a 318is coupe if possible. They were available from about 1995/96.

A BMW with a 1.6 litre engine is nothing special imo. OP there are lots of nice cars to be had over a 316i, choose wisely and don't be blinded by the badge.

Oilrig

I've put 170k on a 4 cyl E36.

All ball joints replaced around 140k, front & rear, big job.

Brake pipes down the back done, all new hoses while I'm at it

Cyl head gasket at 70K - std on 4 cyls apparently.

Two rear wheel bearings.

Nothing else in over 10 years of enjoyable, economical motoring.

If you're looking for one, don't touch it if it doesn't feel rock solid and rattle free. If its been looked after it should be good, if it hasn't, like any car, it will give trouble. I've found BMW to be quite reasonable on parts as well.

cianclarke

bazz26 wrote: »

I would try and stretch to at least a 318is coupe if possible. They were available from about 1995/96.

A BMW with a 1.6 litre engine is nothing special imo. OP there are lots of nice cars to be had over a 316i, choose wisely and don't be blinded by the badge.

The OP is 17 (i'm 19) and I know neither of us will be insured on a 318i, I've checked - and certainly not a 318ci coupe.
Also, the 316i isn't just a 1.6 litre engine - there is also a 1.8, and a 1.9 - they aren't overly exciting, but insurance for U21's will only cover up to a 316i 1.9 litre, no 318's - alas!

Timmins

mick.fr - Thanks a lot for the advice, i appreciate it - i'll keep these factors in mind when buying the car. A friend of my dad's has owned several BMWs including a 316, and hopefully he'll be able to take a look around any car i have my eye on for me.

Bazz26, i wouldn't be even considered by an insurance company if i presented a 318 to them, and as far as i know a 318 would just drink petrol on me. Thanks for the input though!

Oilrig, how much did all those jobs cost you? Did you do them yourself?

E92

I know someone who got insured on a 520i when he was 17. Was only a name driver though. Apparently 5 series are cheaper for insurance than the 3 series,since they're not prone to the boy racer element. Baring this in mind, why not try and find an E34 520i instead?

Tails142

cianclarke wrote: »

The OP is 17 (i'm 19) and I know neither of us will be insured on a 318i, I've checked - and certainly not a 318ci coupe.
Also, the 316i isn't just a 1.6 litre engine - there is also a 1.8, and a 1.9 - they aren't overly exciting, but insurance for U21's will only cover up to a 316i 1.9 litre, no 318's - alas!

I remember ringing Hibernian for a quote last year, licence for 5 years, driving company cars for 3 years (not every day/different cars) and a named driver for 7 years - most they would insure me on is a 1.6 bmw engine, i.e. a 316, I was looking at a 528i. I laughed down the phone at the girl (I'm 25 ffs with a clean driving history) - so I gave my money to quinn who were the ONLY company to quote me at 1300. Makes no sense to me but sure that's the insurance business I guess.

bazz26

cianclarke wrote: »

The OP is 17 (i'm 19) and I know neither of us will be insured on a 318i, I've checked - and certainly not a 318ci coupe.
Also, the 316i isn't just a 1.6 litre engine - there is also a 1.8, and a 1.9 - they aren't overly exciting, but insurance for U21's will only cover up to a 316i 1.9 litre, no 318's - alas!

The OP is looking at the E36 316i which had a 1.6 litre engine only.

And your missing my point. The whole of ethos of owning a BMW is to enjoy the balanced rear wheel drive experience. Hardly an experience your going to enjoy with a 1.6 litre version. If you want to own a BMW then fine but I would wait until the insurance is within reach and buy one with a decent 6 pot engine.

Imo too many people have this romantic view that a 316i is the ultimate driving machine just because it wears the BMW badge.

I still stand by my statement that for the price and year the OP is looking at the 316i there are alot of other options available.

Timmins

bazz26, would you be able to point me towards some other options you think are suitable? I don't think the 316 is the ultimate driving machine, i think they have a reputation for having faults, my guess is that they're all getting old now and time has worn them away. On the other hand i think they can look brilliant, and speed or power was never a concern of mine.

bazz26

Timmins wrote: »

bazz26, would you be able to point me towards some other options you think are suitable? I don't think the 316 is the ultimate driving machine, i think they have a reputation for having faults, my guess is that they're all getting old now and time has worn them away. On the other hand i think they can look brilliant, and speed or power was never a concern of mine.

If you like the look of them and don't need power or speed then by all means get yourself one.

As to what other choices are out there? Really depends on how much you want to spend I guess. First one that would come to mind is the Alfa 156. Not as bad as they are made out to be and you would definately come up a few years on a similar priced 316i.

I would agree though the E36 is now getting old and as such most are knackered or have been moded beyond belief.

cianclarke

E92 wrote: »

I know someone who got insured on a 520i when he was 17. Was only a name driver though. Apparently 5 series are cheaper for insurance than the 3 series,since they're not prone to the boy racer element. Baring this in mind, why not try and find an E34 520i instead?

Tried this one myself too, I thought the same - surely a 520d would be seen as a sensible car? No siree, quinn direct didn't like that one either... Wouldn't cover me on any of the five series.

@bazz26 - sorry, forgot he was talking about the E36 version there!
Did the E46 get any better, particularly in the 1.8 and 1.9 versions, or are they as sluggish as the E36 1.6?

I'm not overly pushed to be honest, as long as it'l hold it's own with what I currently have, a 1.6 passat - looking for a change, something that looks good with lower mileage, the 316i fits the bill and the insurance covers it.
Only other option is a 1.9tdi A6.

Eoin087

cianclarke wrote: »

The OP is 17 (i'm 19) and I know neither of us will be insured on a 318i, I've checked - and certainly not a 318ci coupe.
Also, the 316i isn't just a 1.6 litre engine - there is also a 1.8, and a 1.9 - they aren't overly exciting, but insurance for U21's will only cover up to a 316i 1.9 litre, no 318's - alas!

That's not true .

I'm 19, on my first prov, currently driving a 316 and I rang quinn last week or the week before to see what my premium would increase to if I was to get a 318 1.8 (currently in the market for one) and I was told it'd cost me another €156, I also have a friend who is also 19 driving a 525 (he has his full licence though and is insured by quinn)

HungryJoey

Was looking at a 316i myself as my first car recently, still would love one but I really dont want the cost and hassle of an old car that is prone to issues. Again quinn are the only ones that will quote me on one, I'm 18 and the biggest they will go is the 316.

I'm also looking at a PH3 (00+) Pug 306 with half leather
Saxo VTR 1.6 8v
Skoda 1.6 Octavia GLX


Quite an interesting bunch of cars I know, so far I'm probably leaning towards the 306 Hatch back 1.4 myself-- Cheaper tax, cheaper insurance, cheaper to run, modern looking, decent enough spec & not as expensive on parts compared to a 316i. But I'm still open to decisions!

TBH, OP - If I were you I would seriously consider some other options, It is going to cost you a small fortune to run a 316i as a first car unless you have plenty of doh to keep it tip-top. If you do get a 316i, I wish you luck with it and hope it goes good! I wouldn't mind one my self..

Hj

m_stan

I had an e36 1.6 for 5 years from 52k miles to 125k miles. Aside from regular servicing and tyres, it had a new clutch, radiator, and head gasket. It was a great car - very comfortable for motorway driving and long distances. Quite sluggish from 0 to 30 due to the low power to weight ratio, but after that it was a grand cruiser. If you are in heavy traffic you might find it hard work, but for cruising long distances or motorway driving its a great car.

HungryJoey

Would i be mad to consider a 1.6 16V Alfa 156? Beautiful cars !

Hj

eamon234

I've got a 99 316i Touring with 130k (no problems so far except the Aircon unit having a small electronics fault which I got fixed for €30) and a 00 Octavia both 1.6 and TBH I prefer the BMW it's just better built and feels much more solid on the road although the Octavia is a bit more nimble. Even though the 316 is a much heavier car it seems to be getting roughly the same fuel economy as the Skoda.
Also you can get pretty much any part for E36's on eBay

cianclarke

Eoin087 wrote: »

That's not true .

I'm 19, on my first prov, currently driving a 316 and I rang quinn last week or the week before to see what my premium would increase to if I was to get a 318 1.8 (currently in the market for one) and I was told it'd cost me another €156, I also have a friend who is also 19 driving a 525 (he has his full licence though and is insured by quinn)

Are you insured in your own name, or as a named driver with mammy as the policyholder? Because if you're only a named driver that doesn't really count for ****e, I could drive whatever I wanted as a named driver.
If it's in your own name though that'd be really wierd, because I'm 19, full licence, 2years named driver exp, and they won't cover me on anything but a 316i, and I've tried the lot.

Eoin087

cianclarke wrote: »

Are you insured in your own name, or as a named driver with mammy as the policyholder? Because if you're only a named driver that doesn't really count for ****e, I could drive whatever I wanted as a named driver.
If it's in your own name though that'd be really wierd, because I'm 19, full licence, 2years named driver exp, and they won't cover me on anything but a 316i, and I've tried the lot.

Yes I have my own insurance policy and have never been a named driver

cianclarke

..You're in your own name, on your first provisional, and they're quoting you a price on a 318i?
And they won't quote me on a 318i at 19 with a full licence and 2 years named drivers experience?
With quinn direct? What is your occupation down as? What year is the car?
I can't figure how they are unwilling to quote me on this car, but somebody with a provisional license and less experience has no problem, wierd! Did you have to ring them up?

legs11

I have had 2 bmw E36s, my view is that they are very comfortable and very well put together, but as pointed out here and pointed out on this forum alot they go wrong, and when they go wrong it will cost, so all of a sudden that 5/6/7k bmw doesnt seem so cheap at all

for that reason I would be probably more inclined to get a accord, 1.8litre, a well looked after accord is almost certainly not going to cause problems

for instance i picked up a 98 1.8 for my mate, who is the person who fills up pertrol, and zero else service.

well that was 3 years ago, and the honda is still motoring away. with about 2 oil changes over 3 years and one over heated engine....

try that on a bmw and bye bye......!

if your 17 you dont want all this hassle, so well and good if you get a trouble free bmw, but the badge is not everything.

im going to japan soon and going to bring back a brand new piece of honda for myself.........

cheap....:p

legs11

'On the other hand i think they can look brilliant'

looks can kill

theres no point buyin a bmw if its looks you want and if it costs thousands to repair, it could happen. !

im not anti bmw, i love them, but you need to be careful and IMO over 50% of them on sale around are very dodgey, prob more like 60%!!

Accord sport might not have the badge but it wont let you down.......as lynx might say:rolleyes:

Eoin087

cianclarke wrote: »

..You're in your own name, on your first provisional, and they're quoting you a price on a 318i?
And they won't quote me on a 318i at 19 with a full licence and 2 years named drivers experience?
With quinn direct? What is your occupation down as? What year is the car?
I can't figure how they are unwilling to quote me on this car, but somebody with a provisional license and less experience has no problem, wierd! Did you have to ring them up?

My occupation is down as being a student, my quote was based on a 2000 model, insured with quinn and yeah I rang them up..

Maybe they see you as a higher risk factor than I (joke)

cianclarke

Eoin087 wrote: »

My occupation is down as being a student, my quote was based on a 2000 model, insured with quinn and yeah I rang them up..

Maybe they see you as a higher risk factor than I (joke)

Wow that's really wierd, I seriously can't figure that... Might ring them up and see, it makes no sense.. With a full licence I should have a better chance...!

By the way are you now driving said car or did you just get a price?

Eoin087

cianclarke wrote: »

Wow that's really wierd, I seriously can't figure that... Might ring them up and see, it makes no sense.. With a full licence I should have a better chance...!

By the way are you now driving said car or did you just get a price?

No not driving one yet...will be in the next 2 or 3 weeks.

To be honest I can't see why they won't quote you on one, as mentioned I have a friend who is driving a 525 and is insured in his own name with quinn.

cianclarke

Eoin087 wrote: »

No not driving one yet...will be in the next 2 or 3 weeks.

To be honest I can't see why they won't quote you on one, as mentioned I have a friend who is driving a 525 and is insured in his own name with quinn.

That's really wierd yeah, I'd love a nice 5 series / 318i, 320... and wouldn't mind paying up on the extra tax every year to get something a little closer to the BMW experience.

I might try ringing them up. Any other boardsies care to speculate as to why they aren't quoting me on these cars, but will quote Eoin above?
Maybe its your addy, I'm in D6 - are you outside of the city?

Edit: Theres such good value to be had in the 520i that it's killing me not to be able to drive one!

Eoin087

cianclarke wrote: »

That's really wierd yeah, I'd love a nice 5 series / 318i, 320... and wouldn't mind paying up on the extra tax every year to get something a little closer to the BMW experience.

I might try ringing them up. Any other boardsies care to speculate as to why they aren't quoting me on these cars, but will quote Eoin above?
Maybe its your addy, I'm in D6 - are you outside of the city?

Edit: Theres such good value to be had in the 520i that it's killing me not to be able to drive one!

I live just outside cork city, my address wouldn't be the reason, would it?

You should try ringing them tomorrow (quinn), I can't see why they wouldn't quote you on one of them. Let me know how you get on.

Timmins

I had an e36 1.6 for 5 years from 52k miles to 125k miles. Aside from regular servicing and tyres, it had a new clutch, radiator, and head gasket. It was a great car - very comfortable for motorway driving and long distances. Quite sluggish from 0 to 30 due to the low power to weight ratio, but after that it was a grand cruiser. If you are in heavy traffic you might find it hard work, but for cruising long distances or motorway driving its a great car.

A new head gasket is quite a job.. Not something i'd want to encounter, how much did it cost you?

Maybe it would be a good idea to buy an E36 from someone i know, where i know exactly whats been done to it and whats most likely to go wrong (if anything). They seem a bit dodgy by all reports, so a trusted seller might be the best option!

Thanks for everyones help,

Sean

m_stan

Timmins wrote: »

A new head gasket is quite a job.. Not something i'd want to encounter, how much did it cost you?

Maybe it would be a good idea to buy an E36 from someone i know, where i know exactly whats been done to it and whats most likely to go wrong (if anything). They seem a bit dodgy by all reports, so a trusted seller might be the best option!

Thanks for everyones help,

Sean

You know what - I really cant remember. I have a good local mechanic who I trust, but it wasn't cheap - you are right there - I remember that much !

Andrewf20

It must have been the guts of a thousand euro.

neil.p.b

hey timmins, i had a 95 316compact when i was 18 and then a 98 318coupe when i was 19. The 95 316 had 112000 miles on it but i had absolutely no problems with it whatsoever. Down side on them is they're harder to sell then the coupe and harder to get spare/after market parts for. With my 98coupe it only had 70000 miles on it and i had to replace the water pump, cheap enough and no other problems with it. 1.6 litre is more then enough for your first car so power wont be a problem. I find them vey reliable and great looking so id say go for it, just stay clear of anything over 120000miles