Irish MMA

Dan133269

Hello all, just doing a bit of research on MMA and would appreciate it if you could answer a few questions.

(i)I think I read here a while ago that the rules for Cage of Truth are the exact same as the Cage Rage rules, that is to say they are not the same as the old Ring of Truth rules, as elbows on the ground weren't allowed back then is that right?

(ii)Speaking of Cage Rage rules, is the open guard rule still in place, where a fighter can stomp the head and body of a grounded opponent as long as the referee declares open guard? there's no mention of this in the cage rage rules on their website, only says kicks to the head of grounded opponent are illegal. If this is still the case, does the open guard rule apply in Cage of Truth?

(iii) Finally, has any Irish MMA crowd ever applied to be represented by the Irish Martial Arts Commission or had any interaction with the Irish Sports Council. Any formal recognition in other words. I know the IMAC doesn't represent MMA so just wondering did anyone ever apply for it to be represented by them.

Thanks for yer help, much appreciated

cowzerp

There's no elbows on the ground allowed in cage rage, and the open guard rule was done away with as it did not seem to add anything!! as far as i know no mma crowd has applied to the martial arts commision...

Clive

Dan133269 wrote: »

(iii) Finally, has any Irish MMA crowd ever applied to be represented by the Irish Martial Arts Commission or had any interaction with the Irish Sports Council. Any formal recognition in other words. I know the IMAC doesn't represent MMA so just wondering did anyone ever apply for it to be represented by them.

IMAC burned their bridges with MMA long ago. I remember someone put forward a motion that people invloved in "cagefighting" were bringing the martial arts into disrepute, and that IMAC members shouldn't be invloved.

Then Brendan Dowling stated in Irish Fighter that IMAC were not interested in "makey uppery jitsu" and "beat them up better merchants".

At the time IMAC had a notice/message board on their website. I posted a very polite question on it, asking for clarification (being a member myself at the time) but a week later my post was deleted.
I posted it again and a week later they took down their message board.

IMAC are a joke, and if AKAI ever go their own way, it will collapse.

As for the ISC, they deal with National Governing Bodies, and MMA doesn't have anything that could reasonably fulfil the criteria the ISC would lay down.

Dan133269

Clive wrote: »

IMAC burned their bridges with MMA long ago. I remember someone put forward a motion that people invloved in "cagefighting" were bringing the martial arts into disrepute, and that IMAC members shouldn't be invloved.

Then Brendan Dowling stated in Irish Fighter that IMAC were not interested in "makey uppery jitsu" and "beat them up better merchants".

harsh stuff, do you know which edition that was so I could look it up?
Ironically, they recognise Thai Boxing and Jiu-Jitsu, which when put together come somewhat close to MMA, apart from strikes on the ground of course.

O'Leprosy

Clive wrote: »

IMAC are a joke, and if AKAI ever go their own way, it will collapse.

Maybe Colm O'Reilly will have to pull the plug on this, but what's the story here ? The usual ego/politics bullsh!te ?

Dan133269

O'Leprosy wrote: »

Maybe Colm O'Reilly will have to pull the plug on this, but what's the story here ? The usual ego/politics bullsh!te ?

No I'm just doing a project on MMA, looking to see how recognised or official it is.

Clive

Harsh but fair, I think. There are some great people in IMAC, but the organisation itself has failed in every point laid out in their mission statement.

I have no idea which issue of Irish Fighter it's in, but I can have a look for you next time I'm out at home - I think the "bringing martial arts into disrepute" was a motion at an AGM - I should still have the paperwork somewhere.

There's no reason for Colm to lock this thread, I'm just laying out facts and my opinion of an association I was a member of for many years.

Scramble

I remember the 'makey uppy jitsu' and 'beat 'em up better merchants' comments in Irish Fighter, although I don't have the issue anymore. The impression I got was that not only was MMA frowned upon but also people geared towards self-defence and whatnot.

My perception of IMAC is that they are more or less irrelevant to what the vast majority of clubs and coaches in Ireland are doing, and this is a good thing. I wouldn't like to see a scenario where they achieved, for example, one of the parts of their mission statement: To be the ones offering a 'quality mark' in martial arts that the government and general public could refer to.

john kavanagh

Scramble wrote: »

I remember the 'makey uppy jitsu' and 'beat 'em up better merchants' comments in Irish Fighter

lol i remember that too....and i thought actually he was technically correct

all martial arts are 'makey uppy' - someone/some people had to come up with the movements

and bjj/mma will teach you how to 'beat em up better'

so he was spot on really

Dan133269

so does anyone have an idea of which issue it was in, just an idea of when it was published so I can search the back issues? I just need the number and date so I can put down a reference

filament

Dan133269 wrote: »

No I'm just doing a project on MMA, looking to see how recognised or official it is.

well it's the fastest growing sport worldwide and when somethings spreads that fast it usually means it's petty unknown, ask 10 people in the street at random what mma is and i'd be impressed if even 1-2 knew

as for official? if it aint rugby or football it tends to get pretty overlooked, hell bernard dunne needed to become european champion before anyone could be arsed writing or covering him

Clive

Dan133269 wrote: »

so does anyone have an idea of which issue it was in, just an idea of when it was published so I can search the back issues? I just need the number and date so I can put down a reference

Irish Fighter Volume 8 number 2 page 6.

Dan133269

Clive wrote: »

Irish Fighter Volume 8 number 2 page 6.

Legend, thanks very much for that, much appreciated

ColinJennings

I thought that comment was more aimed towards the 'Rex Kwon Do' style martial arts, not BJJ, which regardless of how you feel about it, is a MA. Although one qeustion still begs to be answered; When does a Rex KwonDo become a Taekwon-Do, ie: When does a makey up jitsu, become a legitimate art?

mark.leonard

makey up jitsu is undoubtedly a reference to Jiu Jitsu, there's a clue in the name.

john kavanagh

ColinJennings wrote: »

When does a makey up jitsu, become a legitimate art?

when the techniques contained within the system can be applied on a resisting opponent....for example an armbar in BJJ or a takedown in wrestling.

ColinJennings

While efficacy is always important to distinguish a marital art from the type of psycic power seen on Bullshido, I was asking when would one art be considdered a legitimately separate art, rather than an offshoot of another art. For example Judo and Ju Jitsu, or Taekwon-Do and Hapkido, Jeet Kune Do and Kung Fu.

Does one man saying they have a new martial art mean that the martial art is established. Does that mean that when Jimmy and Johnny, who do one MA have a falling out and Jimmy's MA and Johnny's MA are refered to by separate names that two new arts are established?

I think that that is the point of the 'makey uppy jitsu' comment, not an insult towards grappling arts. Correct me if I'm worng, jut jitsu just means fighting art right? (As in aiki-jitsu and aiki-do are just the fighting art of aiki and the way of aiki.)

john kavanagh

ColinJennings wrote: »

I was asking when would one art be considdered a legitimately separate art

the answer to that is more for the 'historian' rather than how i would consider myself...practicioner

at SBG we refer to the fighting ranges as Stand-up, Clinch and Ground...the only 3 ranges that exist in real fighting. try not to get into naming various arts....claiming one technique or another for 'your' system is the beginning of tribalism and, in turn, human suffering . i could give a rats where such and such a choke came from....as long at it makes the partner tap....there are countless 'arts' but only 2 types of training methods

(nice signature btw)