I'm sure you've all heard..

tck

http://www.digitalrights.ie/2008/01/19/dri-condemns-backdoor-implementation-of-surveillance-laws/

Now I have to convince all my non-tech friends to use jabber

constellation

tck wrote: »

Now I have to convince all my non-tech friends to use jabber

With apologies for going slightly off topic. How does Jabber help in this case?

Martyr

i don't have a problem with it..its only a directive, like alot of others, rarely are they enforced, especially in ireland.

tck

constellation wrote: »

With apologies for going slightly off topic. How does Jabber help in this case?

an easy interface for them that supports encryption.

tck

Average Joe wrote: »

i don't have a problem with it..its only a directive, like alot of others, rarely are they enforced, especially in ireland.

Well the EU seems pretty stubborn about enforcing it. As a friend of mine once pointed out, with different email clients, it's hard to tell where the message sender header stops and the email begins - they are bound to scoop up email data.

And why IM chats but no emails? As for log on/off times. Are they referring to the net usage, as in calculating the router cycle times? or actual IM log on/off.

It's vague enough. Be great to talk to someone on the inside of these ISP's to find out more. I heard in the past that IBB don't log anything, how are they going to turn around and start this?

Is the DOJ overseeing the whole thing? For such tricky data, scripts and software has to be written up, will it be common across the board or left up to the ISP I wonder. This is information we should have access to I guess. FOI time!

Martyr

Is the DOJ overseeing the whole thing?

No comment from DOJ, still on well deserved XMAS vacation in the caribbean.

ianhobo

This directive has been around for a while, and for some reason had been plastered over the papers today...strange....

Anyway, it doesn't matter if you switch to jabber, because no content in any of the methods of communication's is (supposed to be) stored. only when you did it.

What time you sent email x, and to whom. Not what you sent
What time you rang person x, not what you said
What time you texted x, Not what you texted

And the source of all communications be it i.p, phone number, mast co-ordinates

Rebeller

Further info available from Karlin Lillington's (has column on IT issues in Irish Times) blog here

Records of e-mails and internet chat messages sent and received by Irish residents - and the times they log on and off the internet - will have to be stored for three years. The scheme will be implemented within a month.

The Irish Times has learned the Department of Justice intends to effect a controversial EU data retention directive affecting e-mail and web usage “within a month”, according to a department spokeswoman.

Due to the short timescale, the department will need to use a statutory instrument rather than use primary legislation.

The content of messages will not be retained, but information specifying who sent and received all e-mail and chat messages, the date and time, and the size of the message would have to be retained.

Internet protocol addresses, which define individual users or computers on the net, will also be retained. The directive would likely affect individuals and small to medium businesses, and not private business networks used by large multinationals.

Industry observers and privacy advocates have argued the new EU directive is so vague that internet service providers remain uncertain of what information they need to retain, or how they are to retain and manage it.

Despite the short timetable for implementation, industry bodies had not been told yet that the Government planned to bring forward the statutory instrument.

Ireland received warning letters from the EU last month because it is now three months overdue to implement the directive.

Paul Durrant, director of the Internet Service Providers Association of Ireland (ISPAI), said: “The ISPAI is disappointed that such an all pervasive measure . . . should be enacted without being subjected to the full rigours of Dáil debate and the public exposure that brings.”

Ireland will be among the first to bring the directive into force in Europe, despite the fact that it has also challenged it in the European Court of Justice.

The challenge does not relate to the substance of the directive, which the Government has championed in the EU, but the fact that it was introduced by vote of the larger EU members, a precedent that worries the State.

Privacy advocacy group Digital Rights Ireland (DRI) is challenging the existing call data laws in the High Court in a case that is expected to be referred to the European courts.

Edward McGarr, principal of McGarr Solicitors, who are representing DRI said: “At the very least the transposition of the directive should be by primary legislation and following a debate in the Oireachtas.”

© 2008 The Irish Times

Average Joe wrote:

i don't have a problem with it..its only a directive, like alot of others, rarely are they enforced, especially in ireland.

Believe me this Directive will be transposed into Irish law and effectively enforced.

Ireland's current data retention regime (covering mobile and landline phone traffic data) was originally introduced via a secret Ministerial Order issued to ISPs. In other words the generaal public was never informed that the traffic data relating to their mobile and phone usage was being retained for up to 3 years. When the Data Protection Commissioner called foul the regime was quickly put on a statutory footing by tagging it on the end of the Criminal Justice (Terrorist Offences) Act 2005 .

There are zero safeguards regarding who has access to this data and for what purpose. McDowell assured us that Gardai would only access this info for the purpose of investigating "serious crime". However the Data Protection Commissioner noted there were 10,000 requests to access personal telephone records were made in 2006 alone:eek: (See Digital Rights Ireland website

A (somewhat dated) synopsis of the data retention controversy can be read here

CptSternn

Laws like this make me laugh. All you have to do is find a host outside of the country that sells server space and offers encrypted VPN access.

Then you just tunnel everything you do through the VPN and no one on this end, not even your ISP, can see what your doing.

Fremen

Government proposals to introduce surveillance of all internet users are unacceptable. The proposed law will require Internet Service Providers (ISPs) to log details of every email, every instant message or chat message, and every time users log on or log off, and to store that information for up to 18 months. This information will then be available without any court order or warrant. These proposals, implementing European law, are being drafted without public consultation and would be implemented by a statutory instrument. There will be no scrutiny by the Oireachtas.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm investing in hard drive manufacturers asap.
I don't think that's a practical law, there's just too much information to store, and the volume of information being exchanged is growing all the time.
Imagine trying to enforce a law like that once fibre optics become widespread...

ianhobo

I don't know about you guys, but I'm investing in hard drive manufacturers asap.
I don't think that's a practical law, there's just too much information to store, and the volume of information being exchanged is growing all the time.
Imagine trying to enforce a law like that once fibre optics become widespread...

or maybe it would worth investing in the company who will eventually manage all of this on their behalf!!