Heineken Quarter finals

RuggieBear

So what is the line up going to be?

marco_polo

I'll take a stab at this:

Saracens Vs Ospreys
London Irish Vs Perpingnan
Gloucester Vs Munster
Toulouse Vs Cardiff.

If both the welsh sides lose however it will probably be Munster away to Toulouse and also Clemont will be back in the competition as well.

robric

marco_polo wrote: »

If both the welsh sides lose however it will probably be Munster away to Toulouse and also Clemont will be back in the competition as well.

cant see osperys losing bourgoing have nothing to play for...

Fizman

When all pools have finished, it looks likely that there will be 3 teams on 24 points (London Irish, Gloucester, Saracens). How is it decided who will be best group winner (is it tries scored, tries differential,etc)???? Can't find anywhere that explains it.

If it goes by tries scored I reckon the lineup will be:

Saracens v Ospreys
London Irish v Perpignan
Gloucester v Munster
Toulouse v Cardiff

Just noticed its the same as yours marcopolo!!! Interesting. If, like you said, both welsh teams lose (actually quite possible), this will be a much nastier looking final 8 for Munster, travelling probably to Toulouse and allowing Clermont back in.

Marshy

Fizman wrote: »

When all pools have finished, it looks likely that there will be 3 teams on 24 points (London Irish, Gloucester, Saracens). How is it decided who will be best group winner (is it tries scored, tries differential,etc)???? Can't find anywhere that explains it.

Seems as if its the number of tries scored in all pool matches.

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/31_264.php

roverjoyce

1 Saracens
2 London Irish
3 Gloucester
4 Cardiff/Toulouse (If Cardiff win and get Bonus point at home to Toulouse)
5 Toulouse Cardiff/Stade Francis (If Cardiff win and dont get bonus point away to Toulouse or if Cardiff lose and Stade win Stade away to toulouse)
6 Munster
7 Perpignan
8 Ospreys

1v8 Saracens Vrs Ospreys
2v7 London Irish Vrs Perpignan
3v6 Gloucester Vrs Munster
4v5 Cardiff Vrs Toulouse

Semi Finalists.

Ospreys
London Irish
Gloucester
Toulouse

juvenal

As it stands now it's:

Saracens -v- Ospreys
London Irish -v- Perpignan
Gloucester -v- Munster
Toulouse -v- Cardiff Blues

marco_polo

roverjoyce wrote: »

1 Saracens
2 London Irish
3 Gloucester
4 Cardiff/Toulouse (If Cardiff win and get Bonus point at home to Toulouse)
5 Toulouse Cardiff/Stade Francis (If Cardiff win and dont get bonus point away to Toulouse or if Cardiff lose and Stade win Stade away to toulouse)
6 Munster
7 Perpignan
8 Ospreys

1v8 Saracens Vrs Ospreys
2v7 London Irish Vrs Perpignan
3v6 Gloucester Vrs Munster
4v5 Cardiff Vrs Toulouse

Semi Finalists.

Ospreys
London Irish
Gloucester
Toulouse

Depends on what state they return in after 6N duty but I reckon the Munster eight will be too strong for Gloucester fairly average pack.

Snickers Man

juvenal wrote: »

As it stands now it's:

Saracens -v- Neath-Swansea Ospreys
London Irish -v- Perpignan
Gloucester -v- Munster
Toulouse -v- Cardiff Blues

Only thing to be determined at time of writing is where the Toulouse Cardiff game will be played. Cardiff are currently 17-0 up against Bristol having scored two tries. If they get a bonus point, or score another try and beat Bristol by 23 points or more, they will get a home tie against Toulouse. Otherwise Toulouse will be their hosts.

Cardiff could of course collapse, lose and let Stade Francais in, but it seems unlikely at the moment.

And one shouldn't brag but I got seven of the eight q finalists right after week 3, and two of the line-ups as well.

Make a smug one.

paddyreilly

And so it came to pass:
Saracens v Ospreys
London Irish v Perpignan
Gloucester v Munster
Toulouse v Cardiff

juvenal

Pool 3

Bristol 0 Cardiff Blues 17
Harlequins 10 Stade Francais 31

Cardiff were unable to get the required third try to secure a home quarter final, therefore they travel to Toulouse.

Quarter Finals weekend 4/5/6 April

Saracens -v- Ospreys
London Irish -v- Perpignan
Gloucester -v- Munster
Toulouse -v- Cardiff Blues

marco_polo

So it is confirmed

Saracens Vs Ospreys
London Irish Vs Perpingnan
Gloucester Vs Munster
Toulouse Vs Cardiff.

I reckon the semi finalists will be Ospreys, London Irish, Munster and Toulouse. Ideal semi final draw for anyone would be the winner of the London Irish V Perpingnan game.

Sabre0001

A Munster v Toulouse final would make up for the lack of big-name teams in the last 8...

Trotter

When will we know what day/time its on so we can start the scramble for overpriced flights?

Erin Go Brath

marco_polo wrote: »

I'll take a stab at this:

Saracens Vs Ospreys
London Irish Vs Perpingnan
Gloucester Vs Munster
Toulouse Vs Cardiff.

Good call. Munster have a tough game, but glad not to get Toulouse away. The semi final draw is on Tuesday. The stand out thing for me is the number of big teams NOT in the Quarter Finals.

Fizman

Very tough fixture for Munster, with Gloucester currently flying on top of the Premiership. Still a better draw than going to Toulouse IMO. I predict a VERY narrow win for us. Semi-final draw is on Tuesday I think. I reckon it'll be between:
Ospreys
London Irish
Munster
Toulouse

paddyreilly

Trotter wrote: »

When will we know what day/time its on so we can start the scramble for overpriced flights?

The semi-final draw is on Tuesday so it won't be before then. The draw and the fixtures for the next round have coincided on a number of occasions in the past. Or, more correctly, the fixtures have all been announced a few days after the draw.

Fizman

When will we know what day/time its on so we can start the scramble for overpriced flights?

Possibly Tuesday when the semis are made??? Either way we'll be playing in Gloucester on either Saturday April 5th or Sunday 6th.

COWBOYS!! I was just on Ryanair pricing Shannon to Bristol for that weekend and in the space of 5 seconds (one refresh), 20 euros was added to the flight over LOL. Assume these seats will be gone in the next few minutes.

Trotter

Fizman wrote: »

Possibly Tuesday when the semis are made??? Either way we'll be playing in Gloucester on either Saturday April 5th or Sunday 6th.

BUPA Great Ireland Run is on Sunday 6th... Please be Saturday!!

Is there anyone I can phone to give my requirements? lol :D

paddyreilly

Could be on Friday evening...

paddyreilly

Trotter wrote: »

Is there anyone I can phone to give my requirements? lol :D

James Murdock?

jayteecork

Besides, Toulouse, Munster, and Gloucester, the other teams are joke sides in the last 8.
The organisers would want to get the group stages sorted next season.
And that means getting rid of the Italian sides for starters, and probably Ulster.
The Heineken cup group stages should be decided by previous Heineken form, as well as the domestic league standings.
Sticking a couple of Italian teams in simply to make it more "European" is for the birds.

paddyreilly

Leave Ulster out and you end up with the UEFA Champions League scenario where the top teams get better and better and the gap just gets bigger and bigger.

Anywho...

The Heineken Cup seedings are set to change next season after complaints that the current system, based on geography, does not recognise achievement. This season the holders Wasps have been drawn in the same group as the previous winners, Munster, while two other champions this decade, Toulouse and Leicester, were also paired in the same pool.

The tournament's organisers, European Rugby Cup Ltd, have set up a working party to look at the issue and it is expected to report back to the board of directors with a recommendation by the end of March. The current system, which sees each of the six participating nations provide one seed, was criticised this week by the Wasps' captain, Lawrence Dallaglio. "You want the best teams going through to the knock-out stage but the set-up means some outstanding sides will miss out. It needs to be sorted out," he said.

Article continues
One idea is for the six seeds to be based on form in the competition over the previous five seasons while the Magners League organisers are looking at ways of making that tournament more competitive.

It is possible that the Heineken Cup placings of Scotland, Ireland and Wales will be dependent on finishing positions in the table, as in the Guinness Premiership and the French league, raising the prospect of scant or, in the case of Scotland, no representation in European club rugby's flagship tournament. "There will be an overhaul of the system but we also have to be careful," said Mark McCafferty, an ERC director. "Everyone is agreed that reform is needed but it is important that countries who do not have a great record in the Heineken Cup are not permanently penalised. It has to remain a tournament of opportunity.

From Friday's Guardian

bleg

don't forget the ospreys

Stev_o

jayteecork wrote: »

Besides, Toulouse, Munster, and Gloucester, the other teams are joke sides in the last 8.
The organisers would want to get the group stages sorted next season.
And that means getting rid of the Italian sides for starters, and probably Ulster.
The Heineken cup group stages should be decided by previous Heineken form, as well as the domestic league standings.
Sticking a couple of Italian teams in simply to make it more "European" is for the birds.

That would be 100 steps backwards for rugby as whole if they did that. Italian sides this year put up more then enough a match for their counterparts there wasnt many 100 points on them games. They are improving which is what everyone wants to see making the tournament more competitive. Besides getting ride of more of them makes no sense as that means you would have MORE pools like we had this year then you'd complain even more.

And btw "The Heineken cup group stages should be decided by previous Heineken form, as well as the domestic league standings. " Thats how they are seeded.

Finalists Seed
European Cup Finalists
English Top 4 [or is it 6]
French [same]
3 Irish Provinces
2 Scottish
4 Welsh
2 Italian

something on those lines

Marshy

Fizman wrote: »

Very tough fixture for Munster, with Gloucester currently flying on top of the Premiership.

Its the best draw they could've hoped for though considering they were always facing an away fixture. Gloucester were very poor away to the Ospreys and just about did enough against Ulster today. That said though, it will be a tough game.

bleg

bad enough vs ospreys at home, one the ospreys should have won

finbarrk

Grand National on Sat, hope the game is Sun!

Jello

Stev_o wrote: »

Finalists Seed
European Cup Finalists
English Top 4 [or is it 6]
French [same]
3 Irish Provinces
2 Scottish
4 Welsh
2 Italian

From wiki:

* England: 6 teams (selected by performance in Guinness Premiership and EDF Energy Cup)
* France: 6 teams (selected by performance in Top 14 Championship)
* Ireland: 3 teams (selected by performance in Magners League)
* Wales: 3 teams (selected by performance in Magners League)
* Scotland: 2 teams (selected by performance in Magners League)
* Italy: 2 teams (selected by performance in Super 10 Championship)

Blisterman

Maybe what they should do is add a knockout round of 16 to the tournament, and increase the number of pools to 8, having the top 2 teams from each pool go through.

It would reduce the chances of a "pool of death" from happening.

Sabre0001

Would have to increase the number of teams in it though - longer calender and lower quality teams entering...Can't see English or French sides going for that, calender is too long for them as is.

Blisterman

Well, it would only increase any individual teams number of matches played by one.

Sabre0001

Damn logic!

paddyreilly

Jello wrote: »

* England: 6 teams (selected by performance in Guinness Premiership and EDF Energy Cup)

Qualification for the 2007/08 Heineken Cup worked as follows:

1. Heineken Cup winner (Wasps)
2. Guinness Premiership 1st (Gloucester)
3. Guinness Premiership 2nd (Leicester)
4. Guinness Premiership 3rd (Bristol)
5. Guinness Premiership 4th (Saracens)
6. European Challenge Cup winner (Clermont Auvergne)
7. EDF Energy Cup winner (Leicester)
8. Guinness Premiership 5th (Wasps)
9. Guinness Premiership 6th (London Irish)
10. Guinness Premiership 7th (Harlequins)
---
11. Guinness Premiership 8th (Bath)

If the winner of either the Heineken Cup, European Challenge Cup or EDF Energy Cup also qualifies through a top four position in the Premiership, their place goes to the Heineken Cup runner-up (if English). Last year's Heineken Cup runner-up was Leicester, so the places then go to 5th, 6th, etc. in the Premiership table.

(In line with above, the following teams qualified: 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 10.)

Snickers Man

Maybe this needs a new thread but here goes anyway.

This is just a suggestion.

Why not reduce the HC to 16 teams, comprising four groups? The groups to be made up as follows:

Four from the English Premiership
Four from the French League
Four from the Magners League (guaranteed one from each of the three countries plus the next highest finisher in Magners' table)

The final four places would be decided by a play off (open draw-one team only to beat) between the next two finishers from each of the French, English and Magner's League plus the top two Italian teams.

Benefits:
Four groups with two teams to qualify from each keeps the competition alive longer. Currently, you lose two matches, you're out effectively. Any wonder teams are putting out shadow squads when they have no more interest?

Gives every country a stake, except Italy who could get through the play off round.

Has potential to reward countries improving across the board (ie possible for Wales or Ireland to have all four teams qualifying).

Makes Magners league more competitive.

Cons:
Would mean restructuring the Challenge Cup. Would need to have qualifying round with lower Italian, Spanish and Rumanian teams from which the defeated teams in the HC play offs would have a bye. (a bad thing?)

Could mean that only one Irish team goes through to a HC in one year.

Potential for the same few big names to dominate each year.

Thoughts?

paddyreilly

Snickers Man wrote: »

Thoughts?

For the simple reason that more matches equates to more money, it'll never happen.