This whole rubbish that God created the universe.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

I admit that I have never had much respect for religious types. They seem to be limited in their ability to think and reason - which can make for closed minded bigotry.

However, the poorest argument I have heard for the existance of God is this one: Namely that something must have created the Universe.

So - let me get this straight: It is unacceptable to believe that the Big Bang just happened, with no Creator, because something must have caused it ... Yet, we are invited to believe that something even more incredible and even less likely than the 'Big Bang' (i.e. God) either just popped into existance, or has been there for ever?

It amazes me that some people can accept that God needed no creator (because he is almighty, omnipotent, infinite etc etc) yet demand that everything else must have been created.

It's an argument that can never be won, because those who believe in God do so with faith. They stop thinking any further than this. God is the answer to everything ... and the fact that the existance of God demands even more answers is irrelevant and doesn't matter. It's the Religious version of 42. They are sure that they know the answer but they haven't a clue what the question is.

Fanny Cradock

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

I admit that I have never had much respect for religious types. They seem to be limited in their ability to think and reason - which can make for closed minded bigotry.

Do you not see the unintentional irony in your first lines here? You criticise religious types for closed minded bigotry, yet in the same breath you state that we have limited abilities to think and reason. It’s an astonishingly hypocritical way to open a debate.

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

So - let me get this straight: It is unacceptable to believe that the Big Bang just happened, with no Creator, because something must have caused it ... Yet, we are invited to believe that something even more incredible and even less likely than the 'Big Bang' (i.e. God) either just popped into existance, or has been there for ever?

It amazes me that some people can accept that God needed no creator (because he is almighty, omnipotent, infinite etc etc) yet demand that everything else must have been created.

It's an argument that can never be won, because those who believe in God do so with faith. They stop thinking any further than this. God is the answer to everything ... and the fact that the existance of God demands even more answers is irrelevant and doesn't matter. It's the Religious version of 42. They are sure that they know the answer but they haven't a clue what the question is.

I'm afraid I don't have time to go into any in depth answers. So please forgive the curtness of my response.

The term 'forever' and the phrase 'popped into existence' are all meaningless with respect to God. Why? Because you are applying a restricted existence to God that most Christians would not subscribe to. In fact, most Christians would say that God, an eternal and uncreated being, is timeless and outside it’s effects. You are applying the same limitations to God, an omnipotent being, which we, mortal beings, are subject to.

If you accept that everything began with the BB, including time (maybe there was other mechanics in place before the BB, maybe not – science doesn’t yet tell us), then a God who existed before this point wouldn’t suddenly be subject to dynamics that arose after; he’s outside the room of our existence, so to speak. With this in mind, I don’t see why God would need a beginning or a creator.

philologos

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote:

I admit that I have never had much respect for religious types. They seem to be limited in their ability to think and reason - which can make for closed minded bigotry.

OP even with the title of the thread you have the wrong approach. You aren't really concerned with any answer I or anyone else will give you.

dewsbury

I feel I pretty much agree with IRISHSPORTGUY.

Perhaps he could have been more diplomatic but I find the logic similar to my own.

In simple terms , I have no idea how we came to be. Surely the whole concept of "being" is beyond the understanding of man.

I could not explain/understand how the electric light bulb works. Never mind explain/understand the origin of man.

oscarBravo

Thread closed. Mods, feel free to overrule if you deem appropriate.

IRISHSPORTSGUY, read the charter before posting in this forum again.

Asiaprod

oscarBravo wrote: »

Thread closed. Mods, feel free to overrule if you deem appropriate.

IRISHSPORTSGUY, read the charter before posting in this forum again.

Thanks, no problem here, would have done it myself but you beat me to it