fast pictures.

ramtha

I am close to shelling out 10k for the home sis service which is a bummer considering the obvious ability of atr to provide faster pictures and unwillingness to do so. I live in limerick and just thought I would post this in case somebody knows of an independent in the surrounding areas that would be interested in doing some kind of deal???or if anyone is interested in going halves?

k101

ramtha - will you bother with the in running trading for the ruk tracks seen as sis wont be showing them. Or do you think you still can mange to make a profit just using ruk at home through sky/chorus

masterK

You'd also need to purchase Turf TV to get all the courses.

ramtha

k101: yes. I will probably still play them but the flat season can be a lot more difficult.
masterk: Turftv do seem to be not offering a home service for punters at the moment.maybe things will change,who knows..

pro_gnostic_8

That is correct ............. TurfTV do not supply the domestic market -- only LBO's.

Ramtha, I would caution you against this large outlay. Even with SIS you will still be at a disadvantage. RaceTech pictures are even faster than SIS. But you have to be at the course to see RaceTech. There are now a couple of "crews" at every UK racecourse gathered around the RaceTech TV whilst on the mobile phone to their buddy back at home on his quad-core PC! They will eat you up. Time was- a coupla years ago - when In-Running was like picking money off the floor; But not anymore I'm afraid.

pro_gnostic_8

PS ......
TurfTV is a second ahead of RUK
RUK is just imperceptibly ahead of SIS as to make no difference
SIS is around 2-3 seconds faster than ATR.
But RaceTech is ahead of all.

Also, keep in mind you will be up against guys in UK who have up to 20 meg speed connections to Betfair. (The Exchange Shops have fibre optic at ~ 50/60 meg ). You have, at a guess, 3 mBit max?

BangBeater

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

PS ......
TurfTV is a second ahead of RUK
RUK is just imperceptibly ahead of SIS as to make no difference
SIS is around 2-3 seconds faster than ATR.
But RaceTech is ahead of all.

Also, keep in mind you will be up against guys in UK who have up to 20 meg speed connections to Betfair. (The Exchange Shops have fibre optic at ~ 50/60 meg ). You have, at a guess, 3 mBit max?

Are these kinda crews with that kind of access to serious connections & RaceTech cleaning up on the in-running you think?? Like for fallers at a fence in the clear, they must clean up?

pro_gnostic_8

Without a doubt, BangB, they are doing very well indeed. It pays them to travel to the course, pay entrance, and have a partner at home sitting in front of the PC. They are doing this professionally.
It costs £30 sterling a day to sit in John Lovell's chain of exchange shops in the U.K. ( £38 in Canary Wharf). The average guy would expect to make £1,000 a week minimum after expenses on In-Running utilising the SIS feed into the shop. Now, consider that the fella's at the track using RaceTech have a time-advantage over even the SIS user in the exchange shop. So, ask yourself what chance has the average home punter using ATR got against this when he is SEVERAL seconds behind the course.
The most successful ones at the track are now waiting until the race winner is only about 2 lengths from the finish line knowing he is way, way ahead of the mug punter at home.

The home user on ATR is fodder to the Racetech/ Racecourse player.

slowlyin2stride

prognostic

You assume these lads working off the race tech feed a) know how well a horse is going to warrant playing and b) have the ability to relay this to their colleagues at home who are working with much slower upload connection to Betfair, than those with the one click software in the exchange shops.

Granted, these guys who are based in the exchange shops are making it pay, but it is akin to someone sitting on an assembly line, pressing a button when something has gone clear. There is no art whatsoever in it. Though if you are clearing a few hundred large p.a. u could probably get over that minor hurdle!!:D

The majority of guys in these exchange shops have no opinion at all on racing which may lead u to think that they are merely cannon fodder for those that do and have the quicker pictures/internet connection. However, it is probably a good thing because it is very difficult to marry the two concepts of race reading and one click software, since the guys without the opinion are content to churn out their £200/£300 per day taking 1.1 about 1.01 shots whereas the guys with an opinion would go round the bend performing this assembly line duty after a week!

Also prognistic, are John Lovell's shops the ones in Coventry and Cardiff?? as the one in Canary Wharf is run by a different crowd and is the first of it's kind.

pro_gnostic_8

Indeed yes, Slowly, I agree wholeheartedly with you ............ I wouldn't have the psychology to head off every midday to an exchange shop, and do mouse-clicking all day. Soul-destroying stuff -- I'ld equate it to heading off to work daily in a Call-Centre!
Absolutely, many of these guys in the exchange shop don't have any insight whatsoever into form, trainer/jockey stats, soft/firm going etc. But it doesn't matter to them. Like a lot of traders on sports/horseracing markets are fairly ignorant of the sports they trade on -- by trading I'm sure you know that I mean Laying to Back and vice-versa (buying low and selling high). But I didn't say that the exchange shop fellows were cannon-fodder to the track professionals .......... they can still make their "K a day". It is the misguided punter at home who thinks he has a "chance" when doing In-Running. He doesn't ....... the RaceTech player has the upper-hand overwhelmingly. And the RaceTech player onCourse also has the advantage over the SIS exchange shop.

(BTW, I believe that the RaceTech professional punters ARE fairly tuned in to the particular idiosyncracies (going, draw, pace etc) of the courses they attend ...... much more so than the average Exchange Shop player.)

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that Lovell owns the Canary Wharf shop. He has the Cardiff and Coventry ones as you say

---

Canary Wharf Sports Exchange Ltd., is an entirely different operation.

slowlyin2stride

Cheers prognosis, interesting to know about the race tech players. Still wouldn't have the soul to do it!!

Tried Canary Wharf for a week a few weeks back as was visiting someone in London, and any cash I did make was punting a big priced one pre race rather than any in running as for every George Baker cruising turning in at Lingfield u back at evens in Lingfield u r gonna do it in laying some John Egan yoke at the same price on the aw in Kempton thinking it's gone too short in running only for the rest of the field not to be interested in going after it until it's gone 1.01!!

Granted the racing has been awful since start of the new year, but any of people I spoke to who were making the cash had zero opinion bar one chap. Sure I was clearing loads after an hour only to do it on the rest of the racing that day or the rubbish in the evening as I felt I had a competitive advantage over the rest of the smucks with ATR/RUk. No bigger smuck than me as it turned out!! as I was trying to marry the 2 concepts which doesn't work as I mentioned.

So my advice to the likes of ramtha is if u are a clued in punter u don't need the likes of SIS/Turf Tv for a real competitive advantage, as the 1 or 2 seconds ur behind with ATR/RUK should be negated if u know something is going well or not so well.

For example, when Temlett jumped off in front in Naas u knew it was all over but from when the tapes went up he traded from 2.8 and only went as short as 2.5 when he had jumped two down the back. Sure there are other countless examples where I've got it wrong but my point is u didn't need the split second advantage that comes with the sattelite pictures there as he traded in the same price range for over a minute when u knew that in reality he was bar a fall as he was off and was handling the ground fine.

Again at Warwick today there were numerous favourites u could tell that were ill at ease on the track that u could lay knowing that u'd be able to back them back at bigger and that was with RUK on a poxy NTL service that actually worked today!!

However, if all u want to do is nick 1.1 about 1.01 shots or lay the faller first, it is financially viable to get the pictures tho u'd be better served approaching an independent in Limerick to use their back office for a deuce a week or something, in case u decide after a while it's not for u.

pro_gnostic_8

Hello Slowly,

Great to read about your experiences in the Exchange Shop.
Though it does strike me that perhaps ( when you were ahead a good wedge and then giving it back) that you fell victim to that notorious affliction of all punters -- lack of discipline and not being selective enough.

slowlyin2stride wrote: »

So my advice to the likes of ramtha is if u are a clued in punter u don't need the likes of SIS/Turf Tv for a real competitive advantage,

Now, that is where we have to agree to disagree! To have a competitive advantage in In-Running I firmly believe you DO need the faster pics.

One bit of advice I would offer is this: to win you need an "Edge" over the Exchange Shop players. The one Edge that you will have over 90% of these guys doesn't come easy -- it takes a bit of work. That Edge can be achieved by being acquainted with the style of running of any particular horse -- keep an eye out for the horse that breaks well; shows good early pace but finds little or nothing off-the-bridle at the business end of the race. Lay it In-Running early at @ 1.5 (2/1 On). You will get action from takers that are ignorant of that horse's style of racing.

But with over 25,000 horses in training in the UK it might seem a daunting task to analyse each individual horse's characteristics. So you have to get selective. Get selective not by narrowing down the number of horses by distance etc., but by narrowing the number down by focussing on particular tracks. Now, on Turf, horses race over many and various courses ........ so you should pinpoint the A/W. Southwell, being the only Fibresand track in the UK is recommended -- as many horses only do their racing there exclusively. Learn the style of racing of these horses and make Southwell your battlefield ( also taking notice of the speed-figures up to distances of 1mile).

Lastly, just to say, I DON'T do In-Running ......
But best of luck to any of you that "Feels the Need" ........