Jamies Fowl Dinners - dodge tv

voxpop

Anyone see this - seems to be the channel4 flavour of the month, with hugh farnley-withingstall and the lads all talking about chickens.
I thought it was a bit far fetched that a multi restaurant owner like Jamie Oliver was preaching to the masses about chicken welfare. Does he really not know how chickens are reared and the differences between battery and free range chickens. Id like to know the policy of his restaurants in regards to free range chickens and eggs.


Btw what about the cow,sheep,pigs and other animals that are produced for human consumption?

mad m

Ugh! Did you see the egg roll!! Ah its over too late I'm off to bed...Night chick!

catch--22

voxpop wrote: »

I thought it was a bit far fetched that a multi restaurant owner like Jamie Oliver was preaching to the masses about chicken welfare. Does he really not know how chickens are reared and the differences between battery and free range chickens. Id like to know the policy of his restaurants in regards to free range chickens and eggs.

You would presume that he is a firm believer in using free range in his restaurants. I think you will find most top chefs will use free range as the quality of the meat is better.

MoominPapa

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Oliver take a trip to his organic chicken suppliers farm during the show?

mags16

I found it a bit preachy. The invited junk food eating audience just sat there silently and were talked at by Saint Jamie.

However I agree with the message. I try to eat free range as much as possible.

lodgepole

voxpop wrote: »

Does he really not know how chickens are reared and the differences between battery and free range chickens.

Id like to know the policy of his restaurants in regards to free range chickens and eggs.

He never suggested that he didn't know, he suggested that perhaps other people didn't. The show was to demonstrate practices that we may not have been aware of. While battery farming came as no surprise to me, some of the facts in the show did.

The policy in his restaurants is to use free range exclusively.

I thought it was pretty good telly.

odyssey06

voxpop wrote: »

Anyone see this - seems to be the channel4 flavour of the month, with hugh farnley-withingstall and the lads all talking about chickens.

There was an article in last Saturday's Independent, from someone who farms chickens in the area that farnley-withingstall set his up in and she was basically saying that one of the reasons why his battery chickens looked like they were being treated so badly is that he was breaking lots of the animal welfare rules and standard practices. I'd take all these programs with a pinch of salt... although next week C4 will probably have a program on how excessive use of salt will lead to the end of civilization as we know it.

MoominPapa

odyssey06 wrote: »

There was an article in last Saturday's Independent, from someone who farms chickens in the area that farnley-withingstall set his up in and she was basically saying that one of the reasons why his battery chickens looked like they were being treated so badly is that he was breaking lots of the animal welfare rules and standard practices. I'd take all these programs with a pinch of salt... although next week C4 will probably have a program on how excessive use of salt will lead to the end of civilization as we know it.

Funny, heres an article from last Saturdays Independent on Fearnley-Whittingstall and it doesn't say anything of the sort

BaZmO*

voxpop wrote: »

I thought it was a bit far fetched that a multi restaurant owner like Jamie Oliver was preaching to the masses about chicken welfare.

How was it far fetched?

voxpop wrote: »

Does he really not know how chickens are reared and the differences between battery and free range chickens. Id like to know the policy of his restaurants in regards to free range chickens and eggs.

did you actually watch the show? As others have said, he actually went to the Free Range farm where he gets his chickens.

voxpop wrote: »

Btw what about the cow,sheep,pigs and other animals that are produced for human consumption?

You have to start somewhere. I think the reason why they started with Chickens is because the combined Chicken & Egg market is one of, if not the biggest food production markets in the UK.

I had no problem with this show at all, it was simply there to educate people as to where their food comes from, and I was more surprised with the fact that so many people weren't aware of the conditions in battery farms.

He wasn't telling what they should or shouldn't buy, he was just providing the information so that they could make an educated choice when they go shopping.

I thought the bits with Ricky Gervais were hilarious though.

odyssey06

MoominPapa wrote: »

Funny, heres an article from last Saturdays Independent on Fearnley-Whittingstall and it doesn't say anything of the sort

*cough* This is Ireland *cough*

Sorry, should have stated last Saturday's Irish Independent!

http://www.independent.ie/unsorted/features/why-those-celebrity-chefs-should-stop-their-clucking-about-supermarket-chickens-1264475.html

"When HF-W (his name uses up more space than he claims a chicken has to live in) attempted to set up an intensive farm, even the smallest chicken producer could have told him that he had made three crucial errors that would hurt the chickens and make it impossible for them to walk. This was one of the main points of his argument and one of the points that most worries the public.
Firstly, the house itself didn't meet EU welfare standards: It didn't have proper air vents, which are standard in all chicken houses. Secondly, he placed sawdust on the floor of the house immediately after washing it. Current EU welfare regulations state that houses must be washed out three weeks before any sawdust is put down on the floor to ensure it doesn't get wet and affect the chickens' legs.
Finally and more critically, HF-W failed to heat the house before placing the chickens in it. Irish producers heat the house for three days beforehand to ensure the floor is warm enough for the chickens' feet."
- Maeve Dineen

MoominPapa

odyssey06 wrote: »

*cough* This is Ireland *cough*

Sorry, should have stated last Saturday's Irish Independent!

Yeah, well when you said

odyssey06 wrote: »

There was an article in last Saturday's Independent, from someone who farms chickens in the area

you gave a very strong, but it turns out completely misleading, impression that you meant someone in the locality that HFW had carried out his experiment, therefore I assumed you meant the english independent. Now it turns out that the person who wrote the article is Meave Dineen the editor of the Independent Farming supplement and presenter of Ear to the ground. I find her article trite and not at all persuasive

catch--22

MoominPapa wrote: »

Yeah, well when you said

you gave a very strong, but it turns out completely misleading, impression that you meant someone in the locality that HFW had carried out his experiment, therefore I assumed you meant the english independent. Now it turns out that the person who wrote the article is Meave Dineen the editor of the Independent Farming supplement and presenter of Ear to the ground. I find her article trite and not at all persuasive

In addition....for anyone who had seen Hugh's Chicken Run....he went to great lengths to find info on how to set up a chicken farm and none of the farmers would help him! He had to rely on a UK government guide and the last minute assistance of an Ulster farmer!

I also wasn't too impressed with the indo's article. I'm not sure how biased she would be to the industry.

MoominPapa

catch--22 wrote: »

I'm not sure how biased she would be to the industry.

Well going on this and this shes from a farming background and as editor of the indos farming supplement and based on the slant of her article I'd say she's biased in favour of the industry. Could be wrong as I can't find any other opinion pieces by her, just reports

odyssey06

catch--22 wrote: »

In addition....for anyone who had seen Hugh's Chicken Run....he went to great lengths to find info on how to set up a chicken farm and none of the farmers would help him! He had to rely on a UK government guide and the last minute assistance of an Ulster farmer!
I also wasn't too impressed with the indo's article. I'm not sure how biased she would be to the industry.

Well according to the UK Indo article:
What particularly outraged chicken farmers was Fearnley-Whittingstall's claim that he had had to build his own factory farm because no poultry farmer would let him any closer than the end of the phone. "You've got chicken farms with barbed wire all around them, which is not necessary to keep the birds in," he said, in justification of his gimmick.
The claim went down particularly badly with the Devon poultry company Lloyd Maunder, which subsequently revealed that the chef had spent three days filming at farms, including an intensive unit, where the company's commercial director, Andrew Maunder, had engaged in a "robust debate" on camera with the campaigner. When the show aired this week, all that footage had been cut and no mention was made of Lloyd Maunder's contribution.

Seems there's enough bias to go around both sides.

odyssey06

MoominPapa wrote: »

shes from a farming background and as editor of the indos farming supplement and based on the slant of her article I'd say she's biased in favour of the industry. Could be wrong as I can't find any other opinion pieces by her, just reports

She's from a farming background? Surely anyone who would have detailed knowledge of how chickens are actually reared on farms would have that kind of a background? Based on this logic anyone with sufficient knowledge to point out the flaws in Fearnley-Whittingstall's program has to be biased?

I don't know anything about raising chickens. Maybe the report in the Irish Independent is biased, maybe it isn't. But I think there are enough valid criticisms from both Independent articles to demote the program to the status of 'gimmick'.

BaZmO*

MoominPapa wrote: »

Well going on this and this shes from a farming background and as editor of the indos farming supplement and based on the slant of her article I'd say she's biased in favour of the industry. Could be wrong as I can't find any other opinion pieces by her, just reports

She was on the Ray D'Arcy show the other day. She basically sadi that she would have no problem eating any Chicken that came from an Irish farm, regardless of whether it was Free Range or not. She also mentioned that any Chicken that you get in Ireland that is processed or from a Restaurant has more than likely come from Thailand or Holland as it's cheaper.

Tbh, it's hard to know who to believe in all this, so many vested interests.

MoominPapa

Seriously Odyssey thats a very selective quote.. The following paragraph, which you choose to omit, give that whole section of the article a very different feel

Channel 4 claimed that the sequence was cut because Lloyd Maunder also took part in another of its programmes, Jamie's Fowl Dinners, shown last night, and that the footage was held out of the Fearnley-Whittingstall programme "to avoid repetition between our respective programmes".

C4 are running a whole series of interrelated food programs this January, all are heavily advertised with a campaign fronted by Gorden Ramsey, HFW and JO. C4s editing of this material in this context was valid

odyssey06 wrote: »

She's from a farming background? Surely anyone who would have detailed knowledge of how chickens are actually reared on farms would have that kind of a background? Based on this logic anyone with sufficient knowledge to point out the flaws in Fearnley-Whittingstall's program has to be biased?

Her background + her career + the article makes me feel she is biased in favour of the industry. Not just that she is from a farming background
. Note that I said I could be wrong.

odyssey06 wrote: »

I don't know anything about raising chickens. Maybe the report in the Independent is biased, maybe it isn't. But I think there are enough valid criticisms from both Independent articles to demote the program to the status of 'gimmick'.

I don't. Get over it. Post something like an argument that you've come up with yourself

odyssey06

MoominPapa wrote: »

Seriously Odyssey thats a very selective quote.. The following paragraph, which you choose to omit, give that whole section of the article a very different feel

I don't think it does. The full text of the article is available to anyone who clicks the link, however C4's 'excuse' is just that - an excuse. Which is why I omitted it from my post.

If you cut out that material from the program you then cannot turn around and on the program claim that you have had difficulty in contacting chicken farmers. That is not the argument of a trustworthy program-maker.

MoominPapa

odyssey06 wrote: »

I don't think it does. The full text of the article is available to anyone who clicks the link, however C4's 'excuse' is just that - an excuse. Which is why I omitted it from my post.

If you cut out that material from the program you then cannot turn around and on the program claim that you have had difficulty in contacting chicken farmers. That is not the argument of a trustworthy program-maker.

Thats more like it. Valid point. Still think chickens should be free-range at least though;)

odyssey06

MoominPapa wrote: »

Thats more like it. Valid point. Still think chickens should be free-range at least though;)

That's a battle for a different time and place and I'm not even sure what side I'd come down on! I'll stick to slagging off TV progs

ella minnow pea

Food that people can afford > anything else

If you can afford to pay €22 or whatever for an organic free-range chicken, go ahead by all means, but surely there should be options for people who can't.

IMHO farmers are by far the most concerned about animal welfare; if you're stock all dies, it's hardly good for business.

BTW, standards in Ireland for livestock are very different to those in UK - welfare schemes, etc that pay more for the most humane treatment. And don't even start on standards in Asia and South America. If you want to feel good about the meat you're buying, make sure it's Irish and not just Irish-processed.

The new EU regulations for mass produced chickens - ventilated sheds, proper perches and that - make for perfectly good and humane treatment.

Chickens ain't people.

We could've done with a week-long Channel 4 insight into mental health care facilities in Eastern Europe, where people are treated much worse than battery farms, instead, to be honest. But I don't think Jamie could've cracked as many jokes in that, could he?

MoominPapa

ella minnow pea wrote: »

Food that people can afford > anything else

If you can afford to pay €22 or whatever for an organic free-range chicken, go ahead by all means, but surely there should be options for people who can't.

Or eat less, but better quality meat

IMHO farmers are by far the most concerned about animal welfare; if you're stock all dies, it's hardly good for business.

BTW, standards in Ireland for livestock are very different to those in UK - welfare schemes, etc that pay more for the most humane treatment. And don't even start on standards in Asia and South America. If you want to feel good about the meat you're buying, make sure it's Irish and not just Irish-processed.

I hope you are correct on this but I can't find anything to back this up, probably because I'm looking in the wrong places. Can anyone provide links to back up these claims that Irish chicken production is of a high standard.

The new EU regulations for mass produced chickens - ventilated sheds, proper perches and that - make for perfectly good and humane treatment.

According to Fowl Dinners the complete opposite is the case, new EU directives will allow for far higher densities with no other provisions such as improved ventilation. Are you sure about this?

Chickens ain't people.

Who said they were?

We could've done with a week-long Channel 4 insight into mental health care facilities in Eastern Europe, where people are treated much worse than battery farms, instead, to be honest. But I don't think Jamie could've cracked as many jokes in that, could he?

This is a total cop out. Anything anyone does can be criticised in this way. If that did the programs you suggest then someone could say whats the point things are worse in China.

Bubs101

I watched the show and although some bits were disgusting it's not gonna make me start buying more expensive free range produce. Infact, most of the things shown were old news (bar the male chicks being killed, I think anyone would have found that horific) and I don't see how they could have changed anyone's opinion.

I think Ella is right, what people can afford comes first, people's tastes come first and infact just about anything in regards to people comes ahead of poultry regulation in my book. After all, they are bred to be killed and those chickens have been for centuries and I don't see the point in wasting money to improve the living standards of something which is only bred for our delectations and nothing else.

ella minnow pea

MoominPapa wrote: »

I hope you are correct on this but I can't find anything to back this up, probably because I'm looking in the wrong places. Can anyone provide links to back up these claims that Irish chicken production is of a high standard.

Quick reply as I need to get to work

I'm not too sure about chickens (did say livestock in my post) but if you are interested, search for the Suckler Cow Quality Welfare Scheme (SCQWS) which is about higher standards of welfare - farmers who follow best practise get €80 per cow annually

i know it sounds like I work in d'industry but i've just read stuff about it recently and wanted to share....:rolleyes: