Effectiveness of the Gardai if you call 999

User45701

I remember once years ago myself and my mates where around 15/16 and where at a pary and went down to the local chipper, anyway a primtive took a phone out of someones hand and then ran out of the chipper, when asked for the phone back violence broke out and resulted in the primtive and his friend attacking,
Someone in the chipper had called the police and when they arrived the primtives had left with the phone. They arrived in a riot van and although the primtives where only about 70 or so meters away the police made no attempt to even question them, in fact they seemed afraid. They stayred in the van and took statements through the mesh on the window of there van.

I have no faith in the gardai but do you think that there should be two divisons of gardai? one that do the usual stuff and one that responds to 999 cals?

TheNog

In my experience 999 calls do not happen very often and most calls are not emergencies therefore to have a separate response unit for 999s is not needed. It is the job of the gardai to determine if a 999 call is a true emergency or if it can wait a while.

Regarding your bad experience with the gardai, I think you shouldn't paint all guards with the same brush.

User45701

I have personly had the gardai fail me twice and do something good once so im ok with them for the mo, but i have been witness to and have read in the papers (papers not sun/star/ect (they are funny but not as funny as weekly world news)) Anyway ye the gardai have failed several times, and as well as that our legal system also fails to back up the gardai but thats a discussion for a different topic.

Dave!

User45701 wrote: »

I have personly had the gardai fail me twice and do something good once so im ok with them for the mo, but i have been witness to and have read in the papers (papers not sun/star/ect (they are funny but not as funny as weekly world news)) Anyway ye the gardai have failed several times, and as well as that our legal system also fails to back up the gardai but thats a discussion for a different topic.

They've also succeeded many many times. You just don't often hear about those.

Notable examples that DID make it into the media -- just yesterday they arrested a drug dealer and got €7 million worth of heroin off the street. Another incident recently where they caught a gang of 5 career criminals in the act of robbing a securicor van. Pretty sweet.

lily3787

This is a bit of a side track to the main issue but i was wondering if anyone had a personal experience of a home break in. My brother's house was broken into recently and it's just awful. I've no allusions that the guys will be caught (Usal responce from the Guards!!) but does anyone have any advise for him as to what to do next. Personal and business items were robbed. Its such a violation of privacy. It makes me so mad.

/ Edit to follow this topic please follow this link. Thank you.

eroo

User45701 wrote: »

I have personly had the gardai fail me twice and do something good once so im ok with them for the mo, but i have been witness to and have read in the papers (papers not sun/star/ect (they are funny but not as funny as weekly world news)) Anyway ye the gardai have failed several times, and as well as that our legal system also fails to back up the gardai but thats a discussion for a different topic.

How can you say the GARDAI as a force have failed you?Did every single Garda fail you?I think not..

Also,don't believe everything you read in the papers;).Bad news gets more attention than good news.

In one particular incident when I was about 13,I was awoken by somebody trying to kick our front door down.We called GS and they were on the scene in about 4/5 mins.Turned out some girl who was drunk was running away from her abusive boyfriend.

I have wanted to become a Garda as a result of that incident...and many other good deeds the Gardai have done.SO,thanks to all the good,hard working Gardai out there..you have my support!

Random

Two separate divisions would be foolish. Resources are spread thin enough as it is without breaking them up.

A non-emergency line might be a good idea though for people to ring up and report things like vandalism, robberys that happened while someone was on holiday, etc that don't need instant response.

eroo

User45701 wrote: »

I have personly had the gardai fail me twice and do something good once so im ok with them for the mo, but i have been witness to and have read in the papers (papers not sun/star/ect (they are funny but not as funny as weekly world news)) Anyway ye the gardai have failed several times, and as well as that our legal system also fails to back up the gardai but thats a discussion for a different topic.

How can you say the GARDAI as a force have failed you?Did every single Garda fail you?I think not..

Also,don't believe everything you read in the papers;).Bad news gets more attention than good news.

In one particular incident when I was about 13,I was awoken by somebody trying to kick our front door down.We called GS and they were on the scene in about 4/5 mins.Turned out some girl who was drunk was running away from her abusive boyfriend.

I have wanted to become a Garda as a result of that incident...and many other good deeds the Gardai have done.SO,thanks to all the good,hard working Gardai out there..you have my support!

ON TOPIC again:o,I agree with TheNog..there simply is no need for something like that.Imagine having,for example,two different sections in a town like Tralee.One for patrol,the other for 999 response.There would be a huge wastage of resources and manpower.

Sierra Oscar

That would never work in my opinion. As already said the resources to have 2 seperate units are not available, and even if they were it would be a waste.

random wrote: »

A non-emergency line might be a good idea though for people to ring up and report things like vandalism, robberys that happened while someone was on holiday, etc that don't need instant response.

Well this pretty much is present already - just ring your local station if you wish to report non urgent issues.

User45701

I was not very clear, the problem is not the gardai themselves (well actually thats not true, as pointed out many gardai do good works but there are those that do not.) There should be more resources put into making our country safer but no instead they spend it on bollox like that ****ing spire and useless things that should be taking FAR (lol i typed fart and had to edit it) less priority than crime, i mean why spend money on something when crimes are being committed?
i don't think there is a god but if it was an established fact that he/she/it existed, if there was (a god) ffs it might get most people to cop the **** on (maybe thats a one of the reasons for orginised religion keep some of the god fearing population in line?)

Hmm im going off topic. Back to my point. The emergency services, right Fire service, they do good work but some people attack them for some reason and due to the legal system in this country the gardai are not able to do what should be done to someone who attacks a person who is acting against another person for no good reason.

The gardai themselves need more leeway and more resources, also a "spring cleaning" of the entire gardai force is necessary to weed out those undesirable gardai who really make me pissed off with the gardai as a whole (and as pointed out its making me paint them all with the one brush)

eroo

You know,there are undesirables in the fire brigade and ambulances too....Shock Horror:eek:

Sierra Oscar

User45701 wrote: »

The gardai themselves need more leeway and more resources, also a "spring cleaning" of the entire gardai force is necessary to weed out those undesirable gardai who really make me pissed off with the gardai as a whole (and as pointed out its making me paint them all with the one brush)

And how do you suppose to make this happen? To join the Gardai you already have to go through numberous "hurdles" to get into training, and then you have nearly two years of comprehensive training.

Im sorry, but you will find someone you dont like in all professions of life. Anyway, sure more resources would be welcomed, but you have to make do with what is allocated.

Eru

Not at all but what we do need is a streamlined mergency service fullstop.

1 control centre for fire, ambulance and Gardai. Then no more local / control radios. Where I work I could be ten metres from a call but dont hear anything on the radio because its gone throough 999.

Why not simple have every station setup properly and controlling all resources with an alert option for wider emergencies?

msg11

I think there should be, simple fact. The house I live in at the moment was having an attempted house robbery taking place.

With US in the house.

Lookly, these GOB****ES, are such FOOLS, a babygate stopped him from getting up the stairs.

The mother was on the phone to 999.

In the back of my head, I said F--- this , picked up an ashtray. And threw it towards him, it smashed off a wall. He ran out of the house screaming, I did not give chase as I did not know what he had on him etc...

Took the gardai one hour to arrive and look around the back with a torch. And no even an are you ok from them either.

Purely dissapointed in them really. And dissapointed myself, that I did not hit the B"""""d

Turner

msg11 wrote: »

I think there should be, simple fact. The house I live in at the moment was having an attempted house robbery taking place.

With US in the house.

Lookly, these GOB****ES, are such FOOLS, a babygate stopped him from getting up the stairs.

The mother was on the phone to 999.

In the back of my head, I said F--- this , picked up an ashtray. And threw it towards him, it smashed off a wall. He ran out of the house screaming, I did not give chase as I did not know what he had on him etc...

Took the gardai one hour to arrive and look around the back with a torch. And no even an are you ok from them either.

Purely dissapointed in them really. And dissapointed myself, that I did not hit the B"""""d

What part of the country do you live in ??

msg11

Chief--- wrote: »

What part of the country do you live in ??

Dublin 9, Serviced by an array of gardai stations!

Turner

Cant believe that to be honest.

Unless things were so busy that they couldnt actually get there for an hour.

But those type of calls are prioritised and that would be a very high priority call.

Usually you would get anything from 2-6 units responding (dropping everything else) and also armed units making their way there.

You ever seek an explanation as to why it took them so long to arrive??

Random

Chief--- wrote: »

Cant believe that to be honest.

Unless things were so busy that they couldnt actually get there for an hour.

But those type of calls are prioritised and that would be a very high priority call.

Usually you would get anything from 2-6 units responding (dropping everything else) and also armed units making their way there.

You ever seek an explanation as to why it took them so long to arrive??

2-6 units and armed units?

Seems a bit excessive for a home invasion doesn't it? Sounds more NYPD then GS.

Or is it just me?

Turner

Lads any of ye that live in dublin need to get a scanner and listen in anytime after 6pm.

You would be amazed at the response to "high priority calls" the gardai actually give. Even to a panic alarm or a confirmed house alarm (where alarm company tells gardai there has been numerous sensor activations)

Friend of mine who is a gard was at a similiar incident to the msg11's one above when the ERU arrived in full gear with guns drawn!!

cushtac

random wrote: »

Seems a bit excessive for a home invasion doesn't it?

If someone broke into your home while you were in it, how many Gardai would you like to respond to the call?

msg11

Was honestly left shaking..

Did not ask the gardai, but one of them (2 in total) said that it was due to a shift change?

It occurred at 9:30pm phone call made around 9:32pm and they arrived at 10:30pm.

TheNog

cushtac wrote: »

If someone broke into your home while you were in it, how many Gardai would you like to respond to the call?

In the country it would be at least 2 in one car and another car (if available) scouring the area roads around your home. If the burglar is seen running from the house, into the darkness and is not caught after a chase, the helicoptor is usually requested and will come if it is available.

Has happened to me a couple of times when manning the phones. Just have to keep talking to the person on the other end, try to reassure them and keep them calm. Also use that time to ascertain exact directions to their house for the car. People usually calm down alot when you advise them to barricade your bedroom door and while on the phone you are talking on the radio and they can hear the sirens going. They know that help is on the way.

cushtac

I think you're missing my point. The poster I replied to thought the amount of Gardai that turned up was overkill, my point is that if a criminal is in your house you won't be worrying about too many Gardai responding - quite the opposite in fact.

Random

cushtac wrote: »

If someone broke into your home while you were in it, how many Gardai would you like to respond to the call?

I want them all to respond when I need them but that's not the point.

So many people complain about the Guards not responding to stuff on time, and so many Guards complain that their resources are limited - 6 units and an armed unit just seems excessive.

metman

Chief--- wrote: »

Lads any of ye that live in dublin need to get a scanner and listen in anytime after 6pm.

You would be amazed at the response to "high priority calls" the gardai actually give. Even to a panic alarm or a confirmed house alarm (where alarm company tells gardai there has been numerous sensor activations)

Friend of mine who is a gard was at a similiar incident to the msg11's one above when the ERU arrived in full gear with guns drawn!!

First of all its a sad state of affairs when any joe soap can buy a scanner and listen into police radio for the craic.

Secondly, my old dear had an attempted break in recently and it took over an hour for a response from AGS. Mainly because they couldn't find the address (despite it being on a main road). Clearly a need for SatNav....as well as sorting out the radio.

cushtac

random wrote: »

I want them all to respond when I need them but that's not the point.

So many people complain about the Guards not responding to stuff on time, and so many Guards complain that their resources are limited - 6 units and an armed unit just seems excessive.

How many Gardai do you think should have responded to the incident? If you were a Garda on the way to this call, would you be happy if there was some sort of cap on the number of colleagues available to assist you?

TheNog

random wrote: »

6 units and an armed unit just seems excessive.

Depends on the situation though. If it was a burglary in progress then as many guards as possible is a good thing. If the burglary has literally left the premises and they had a description then the more the better. Of course if it happened a while ago then one unit is sufficient.

Random

cushtac wrote: »

How many Gardai do you think should have responded to the incident? If you were a Garda on the way to this call, would you be happy if there was some sort of cap on the number of colleagues available to assist you?

It's a fair question and the obvious answer is that I'd want anyone available.

The practical answer though is that surely they had other calls holding and more going on at the time that such a response was an over stretch of their resources.

I could be wrong, I'm not in the Guards ... but I do get the impression from almost everywhere that they're stretched very thin at times.

CLADA

random wrote: »

I could be wrong, I'm not in the Guards ... but I do get the impression from almost everywhere that they're stretched very thin at times.

Its peaks and valleys, and it may just be the case that at a particular time that many units may be available.

An "intruders on" call will always get an immediate response from whoevers available because of the risk to persons on the premises.

Protect life and property is the number one priority.

I appreciate the point you are making about managing resources, but if the man behind the mike in control has those resources available at that time, he will allow them attend.

Eru

msg11 wrote: »

Was honestly left shaking..

Did not ask the gardai, but one of them (2 in total) said that it was due to a shift change?

It occurred at 9:30pm phone call made around 9:32pm and they arrived at 10:30pm.

Well ten is shift change but an hour for that type of call is a joke. An intrudor on should and is supposed to be high on the priority list. Where I am we would be shot for that and it would get at least a few units responding straight off but I dont think the armed units would respond. Still least they were embarrassed enough to explain.

metman wrote: »

First of all its a sad state of affairs when any joe soap can buy a scanner and listen into police radio for the craic.

Secondly, my old dear had an attempted break in recently and it took over an hour for a response from AGS. Mainly because they couldn't find the address (despite it being on a main road). Clearly a need for SatNav....as well as sorting out the radio.

Attempted is not the same, the person was probable long gone so its more taking a report than trying to catch the guy at scene. Have to remember that the area might have only 1 car and it could have been dealing with a very serious call.

The radio is being sorted out, Tetra is in for a few years now in certain areas and for special units and events. Nationwide is supposed to be rolled out within the next year.

Its shocking how many countries dont have Tetra or any secure system.

TheNog

metman wrote: »

Secondly, my old dear had an attempted break in recently and it took over an hour for a response from AGS. Mainly because they couldn't find the address (despite it being on a main road). Clearly a need for SatNav....as well as sorting out the radio.

An attempted break in would be classed as low priority although I do realise the effect it may have had on "your old dear" (mother or grandmother).

If your relative lived in the country on a main road then I don't see how satnav could have helped unless your relative knows the exact co-ordinates of her house. Presuming of course that the gardai responding knew the townsland were she lived but just couldn't get the right house.

I have found that many housing estates and even houses on the streets are not numbered. I have been given out to many times by people for arriving long after the call but when I point out the fact they have no number on their door it is difficult to find them. We are not mind readers nor do we possess special powers to pinpoint a persons exact whereabouts.

metman

TheNog wrote: »

An attempted break in would be classed as low priority although I do realise the effect it may have had on "your old dear" (mother or grandmother).

If your relative lived in the country on a main road then I don't see how satnav could have helped unless your relative knows the exact co-ordinates of her house. Presuming of course that the gardai responding knew the townsland were she lived but just couldn't get the right house.

I have found that many housing estates and even houses on the streets are not numbered. I have been given out to many times by people for arriving long after the call but when I point out the fact they have no number on their door it is difficult to find them. We are not mind readers nor do we possess special powers to pinpoint a persons exact whereabouts.

Cheers. I've an idea of what constitutes a suspects on and what requires a report. As an experienced copper why would I be moaning if I didn't think the service was shoddy? To be clear, the above job was reported as a suspects on (intruders on) as the break in was happening when it was called in. The suspects could not gain access. The response time was as I said earlier.

As regards satnav, I guess I'm spoiled in living somewhere where postcodes facilitate easy navigation. Only in the 26 counties is satnav useless for such an occurrence.

Here you will have every available unit turn out to a suspects on call, as its a job every copper wants to bring in a body from.

In London this type of call will be graded as 'I' Immediate (MetPol has a maximum 12 minute response time to an 'I' Grade call. This means police units will attend within this time limit no matter where you are).

From experience every free unit on the channel will turn out to a suspects on, usually toa-ing (time of arrival) well within the 12 minute immediate response time limit. Where I work such calls usually are attended within 1-5 minutes of being put out on the radio and will be mostly attended by local units/armed units/diplomatic protection units/detective units/armed detective units/whoever else is on the OCU.

This is the type of call that every (non-work-shy) copper will turn out to if available. Nicking burglars is always a result. No matter which force you work for.

Trojan911

TheNog wrote: »

An attempted break in would be classed as low priority although I do realise the effect it may have had on "your old dear" (mother or grandmother).

Just out of curiosity, does a collapsed person (non responsive), qualify as a high or low grade call over here if Gardai were called? and if Gardai were not able to attend would they pass it to the HSE Emergency Ambulance Service immediately?

TheNog

metman wrote: »

Cheers. I've an idea of what constitutes a suspects on and what requires a report. As an experienced copper why would I be moaning if I didn't think the service was shoddy? To be clear, the above job was reported as a suspects on (intruders on) as the break in was happening when it was called in. The suspects could not gain access. The response time was as I said earlier.

Oh right I didn't realise it was suspects on. Nevertheless it can be difficult to locate a persons house at night down the country.

metman wrote: »

Here you will have every available unit turn out to a suspects on call, as its a job every copper wants to bring in a body from.

In London this type of call will be graded as 'I' Immediate (MetPol has a maximum 12 minute response time to an 'I' Grade call. This means police units will attend within this time limit no matter where you are).

We do the same here though I don't believe we have a time limit. My most recent suspects on call was 10 miles from our position and we arrived at the location in 6 minutes 40 seconds across country roads. We timed it. I could count on one hand how many times the four wheels of the car were actually on the road surface all at once. It was hair raising but deeply satisfying when we caught the burglar.

metman wrote: »

From experience every free unit on the channel will turn out to a suspects on, usually toa-ing (time of arrival) well within the 12 minute immediate response time limit. Where I work such calls usually are attended within 1-5 minutes of being put out on the radio and will be mostly attended by local units/armed units/diplomatic protection units/detective units/armed detective units/whoever else is on the OCU.

Same position here but in the country it usually only one car on any particular night.

metman wrote: »

This is the type of call that every (non-work-shy) copper will turn out to if available. Nicking burglars is always a result. No matter which force you work for.

Same in the AGS. My above example shows we put our safety on the line to help others. I would believe every other police force would do the same.

TheNog

Trojan911 wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, does a collapsed person (non responsive), qualify as a high or low grade call over here if Gardai were called? and if Gardai were not able to attend would they pass it to the HSE Emergency Ambulance Service immediately?

That is a high priority call. First importance to the Gardai is to protect life and property. If that person collapsed in their house the ambulance crew would have to call us to break in. They cannot do it themselves. Any injury a Garda discovers is immediately passed to ambulance control and the Gardai will assist in First Aid and in the removal of that person. Gardai are also on standby for people who are waiting on emergency transplant operations. This is a purely escort at high speed.

metman

TheNog wrote: »

Oh right I didn't realise it was suspects on. Nevertheless it can be difficult to locate a persons house at night down the country. We do the same here though I don't believe we have a time limit. My most recent suspects on call was 10 miles from our position and we arrived at the location in 6 minutes 40 seconds across country roads.

I have full respect for you lads in the Guards. Because you put yourselves in harms way to serve the public, you should be looked after a bit better; you should have decent motors, proper numbers on parade, spray, rigid cuffs and taser.

It was an uphill struggle to get body armour and an asp. That aint good. The Met looks after its people by and large. Not as well as some smaller county forces perhaps but then then force is a monster numbers-wise. Regardless of this, at the end of the day, we do our best to lock up the scumbags and turn out to the 999s as best we can, exactly as you lads in the Guards do with less resources. Hats off.

TheNog

Cheers for that and same back to you. We maybe in different police forces but we of the one and same family. A worldwide family.

I won't deny there is some serious problems within the AGS not only in equipment and service to the public but also with some members attitude. However I have personally seen members show outward disgust at failings of our colleagues therefore undoing the good work of the many.

Trojan911

TheNog wrote: »

That is a high priority call. First importance to the Gardai is to protect life and property. If that person collapsed in their house the ambulance crew would have to call us to break in. They cannot do it themselves. Any injury a Garda discovers is immediately passed to ambulance control and the Gardai will assist in First Aid and in the removal of that person. Gardai are also on standby for people who are waiting on emergency transplant operations. This is a purely escort at high speed.

Cheers for the reply..... It is what I thought...