Holywell', Kilcoole. Good place to buy and live?

Pixied

Hi

Hope I can get some help on this one..we are not from Wicklow and need some advise.

My husband, new baby and I are looking to buy a house. Holywell in Kilcoole is on our list of options, but we have some concerns.

The main reservations we have at the moment are:

1. Safety.
When we went to view the Holywell showhouse in November we drove down to Kilcoole station, which is also the access point to the sea walk. In the car park there were 2 1990's cars, each with 4 sets of lads hanging out of them circling around messing.

When they had left my husband went up to view the beach area while I looked after the baby. When he came back I then went to view the beach area and in short had a strange man follow me onto the beach/stoney area and stand a foot behind me while I was looking around. He seemed to be waiting to see if I would go down the track. I couldn't return straight back to the car as a train was coming. When the train was gone I went back to the car park to find my husband coming to see if I was alright because he had thought the man looked suspicious. (long story sorry).

Anyway in short- There wouldn't be much point buying in Holywell, if it wasn't safe to go walking there. If anyone does walk there regularally I'd be keen to hear if this was just an unusual day down there.

2. Upgrading of Village
I heard the village was due an upgrade a couple of years ago by the council but this still hasn't materialised. Does anyone know if this is actually going to happen?

3. There are a number of houses for sale here for the 18 months and have still not sold. I know there is a general downward/slow trend in the market but this seems to be quite bad. Any comments? Holywell does not seem to be sellingwell either, and I'm wondering is this because this area is seen as a bad investment? Has anybody heard anything about this development?

4.Any gaelscoile nearby?

Thanks again- and all comments/info welcomed!

The Real B-man

Pixied wrote: »

Hi

Hope I can get some help on this one..we are not from Wicklow and need some advise.

My husband, new baby and I are looking to buy a house. Holywell in Kilcoole is on our list of options, but we have some concerns.

The main reservations we have at the moment are:

1. Safety.
When we went to view the Holywell showhouse in November we drove down to Kilcoole station, which is also the access point to the sea walk. In the car park there were 2 1990's cars, each with 4 sets of lads hanging out of them circling around messing.

When they had left my husband went up to view the beach area while I looked after the baby. When he came back I then went to view the beach area and in short had a strange man follow me onto the beach/stoney area and stand a foot behind me while I was looking around. He seemed to be waiting to see if I would go down the track. I couldn't return straight back to the car as a train was coming. When the train was gone I went back to the car park to find my husband coming to see if I was alright because he had thought the man looked suspicious. (long story sorry).

Anyway in short- There wouldn't be much point buying in Holywell, if it wasn't safe to go walking there. If anyone does walk there regularally I'd be keen to hear if this was just an unusual day down there.

2. Upgrading of Village
I heard the village was due an upgrade a couple of years ago by the council but this still hasn't materialised. Does anyone know if this is actually going to happen?

3. There are a number of houses for sale here for the 18 months and have still not sold. I know there is a general downward/slow trend in the market but this seems to be quite bad. Any comments? Holywell does not seem to be sellingwell either, and I'm wondering is this because this area is seen as a bad investment? Has anybody heard anything about this development?

4.Any gaelscoile nearby?

Thanks again- and all comments/info welcomed!

Sorry to hear that ive never had any trouble down the Beach its usually a great spot for walks since its a nature reserve for birds people out walking there dogs fishing etc.

As for your question on the upgrade of the village its already happening in the last few years there has been the whitehorn center built (tesco express etc) and the new units at the bottom of the village and also the new secondary school and at the moment the roads and paths are been resurfaced i dont see an issue with facilitys its pretty good for a village and been so close to Greystones

There is a good few new houses that still havent been sold i dont think it reflects on the area they are simply to overpriced

Nearest Gaelscoile's are in Bray (primary & secondary)

RosieJoe

[QUOTE=Nearest Gaelscoile's are in Bray (primary & secondary)[/QUOTE]

Nearest Gaelscoil will be in Greystones soon. Check the forum there for more information on it.

Pixied

Hi

Thanks a mill to you both for the info. I'm glad to hear Kilcoole is safer then it appeared that day.

Do you know where is the Gaelscoil opening in Greystones? Is there any info on line? My child is too young yet but it would be interesting to read up on it and see how it could maybe fit into our plans.

One last thing. I work with alot of people from Greystones and Wicklow town. I have mentioned to them I am interested in moving to Kilcoole. They are all immediately dismissive of Kilcoole and are not very complimentary about the general type of person who lives there. (Don't want to say exactly what they said). To me Kilcoole people seemed grand, but I'd only be a blow-in.

Is there a general snobbery against Kilcoole amoung Wicklow people?

Thanks again!!

leaba

I moved to Kilcoole 3 years ago next month. I find it a great place to live, and I have to say I've never found the natives anything other than welcoming and good craic.

Do you really have to ask if your friend's comments are snobbish? There's most definitely a snobbish element in Greystones. They're even snobbish towards other people in Greystones...just ask the folk that inhabit the Charlseland forum.

I think you might have to be careful lest their snobbish ways rub off. Comments like "In the car park there were 2 1990's cars, each with 4 sets of lads hanging out f them circling around messing." might be revealing some underlying issues you have.

Would they have been less intimidating if they were in 07 cars hanging around Greystones harbour?

Pixied

Thanks for the reply and your honesty.

To be honest, the description of what happened in the car park was fact. The fact that I mentioned the 1990's car was because they were 'souped up' and were definitely menacing in nature, along with the obvious deliberate intimidatary nature they were displaying.

I am not from this side of the country and I have heard that there are problems with boy-racers in various parts of the east coast. The reason I didn't include this info was that I didn't think they were just young harmless kids souping up their cars.

If they were in 07 cars, yes, I would have felt the same. Guys hanging out of '07' cars acting menacingly in a train station car park would have set off alarm bells with me too. If you go to some of the worst areas of cities like Limerick you will see top of the range suv's, mercs,bmws parked in driveways there. Alternatively look at some of the biggest houses in the best areas and locals will tell you there is drugs involved. Criminals come in all shapes and sizes collared or with a hoodie. I am not that blinkered and am entitled to express my concerns.


I hope you understand what I am looking for in asking these questions, is a balanced view of Kilcoole. This is the biggest purchase I am probably going to make in my life and I the kind of person to actively seek alternative/varied opinions. I had a feeling my workmates were possibly over re-acting but not all of them are from Greystones and I am not a local.

I too have heard that Greystones can be insular and 'snobby' by nature, that is one of the reasons we choose to look at Kilcoole. I am not into all that. We want a down to earth, decent and safe place to live.

I have to admit I am tempted to say that maybe you were being a little judgemental of me, but I think you were being honest and I appreciate that.

Thanks a mill and if you have any other info it would be much appreciated!

fishdog

There are a number of houses for sale here for the 18 months and have still not sold

That is Ireland at the moment for you. Same in Greystones, more so in Charlesland.

Safety.

I lived in Greystones for years. Kilcoole is just as safe in my expereince. I have lived in Kilcoole for 2 years.
I am afraid that the world is a dangerous place now. Kilcoole included. Having said that, I think Kilcoole is safer than most places.
I have never had any trouble here. You could have trouble anywhere.

am not from this side of the country and I have heard that there are problems with boy-racers in various parts of the east coast

This is very true. There is a huge boy racer element, especially in Kilcoole. They never cause me any problems, I just think they look stupid. They tend to hang out on the main street. I do not see them on Sea Road.

I hope you understand what I am looking for in asking these questions, is a balanced view of Kilcoole

I know. I was the same. They are fair questions.

Upgrading of Village

It will happen. God only knows when!!

I had a feeling my workmates were possibly over re-acting but not all of them are from Greystones and I am not a local.

I like Greystones, but in my opinion it is over rated and over priced. It is also getting over developed. It is not as nice as it was. Greystones no longer represents value for money. On the other hand Kilcoole is so much cheaper and so close to Greystones it makes alot of sense. We (me, wife and child) are very happy here. We sold a tiny semi detached in a noisy area in Greystones and bought a detached house more than twice the size in a quiet area in Kilcoole for only very slightly more.

I think you would be happy here. If you want any help or info about kilcoole let me know.

I dont really drink, but we also have good pubs within walking distance.

Earlsie

Lived in Seaview Kilcoole for 2 years and while I loved the estate I was not a big fan of the village.
Too many kids hanging about plus all the skanger me banger cars do not give a good first Impression.
The Village is in the process of getting a well needed face-lift, the pubs are OK but found myself heading to Greystones most weekends ( not much better to be honest !), I did find the Sea Road very dangerous at night to walk,maybe they have put in lights in the last 2 years !!

In all it was our first house and it was good experience.Myself, Wife + 20 month old daughter are living in Charlesland now and as a whole I much prefer it...

The above is not Intended to kick of a Greystones v Kilcoole thread, but having lived in Seaview (Kilcoole) 2 years and now Charlesland 2 years I am well placed to give an honest opinion.

I'm sure you'll be very happy in Kilcoole should you decide to move,

All the best

Earlsie

Pixied

Thanks again, both your comments are really really helpful. If the helpfulness I recieved is a reflection of both area's I'd be quite happy to live in either. I don't want this to turn into a 'them and us' thread either- hasn't everybody got enough going on..I understand that sometimes comparisons have to be made to illustrate a point.

Can anyone recommend any other housing estates in Kilcoole? We are not stuck on Holywell and are willing to look at other estates.

Does anyone know if the sea road is still dark at night and if there are any other reasons you felt unsafe walking it at night? (I know safety is never guaranteed, you are right. I suppose I am just trying to be careful, admittedly maybe it might appear overly so..)

The pubs don't bother me. Neither of us are big into them. If there are any sports or social clubs all the better.

Cheers again!!!!

fishdog

I don't want this to turn into a 'them and us' thread either- hasn't everybody got enough going on..I understand that sometimes comparisons have to be made to illustrate a point.

Yes, I understand. I did not intend to "bash Greystones". I hope I did not come across as anti Greystones.I really like Greystones, I was very happy living there. Alot of my family live there and love it.

I think you would like either Greystones or Kilcoole. I was just trying to highlight differences.

Sea Road is badly lit, but Holywell is close to the main street. Lighting is good outside Holywell.

Too many kids hanging about plus all the skanger me banger cars do not give a good first Impression.

This is true. I have seen alot of it in Greystones too though. Less boy racers in Greystones though I think.

Holywell seems very quiet.

bido

Can anyone recommend any other housing estates in Kilcoole? We are not stuck on Holywell and are willing to look at other estates.

There is a nice 5 bed detached dormer bungalow for sale just off the main street. it is just one of six houses in a circle.The price has been reduced to reflect the market and when the market picks up in the spring it would be a good buy.

Bido

Pixied

Hi Fishdog - wasn't trying to imply that I thought you were anti-Greystones or trying to create a 'them and-us' scenario. You have given me great assistance! I just don't want people to think I've got pre-concieved notions etc..that's all.

I emailed Sherryfitz to get the new pricelist for Holywell and they got back to me very quickly- but she forgot to attach the new pricelist. I might pop over there tomorrow if I get a chance. I'd like to get a second look around after all this info!

annie5

Hi There is a meant to be a Gealscoile opening this sept. in Greystones but no prem yet. The e-mail is greystonesgaelscoil@gmail.com

Pixied wrote: »

Hi

Hope I can get some help on this one..we are not from Wicklow and need some advise.

My husband, new baby and I are lookito buy a house. Holywell in Kilcoole is on our list of options, but we have some concerns.

The main reservations we have at the moment are:

1. Safety.
When we went to view the Holywell showhouse in November we drove down to Kilcoole station, which is also the access point to the sea walk. In the car park there were 2 1990's cars, each with 4 sets of lads hanging out of them circling around messing.

When they had left my husband went up to view the beach area while I looked after the baby. When he came back I then went to view the beach area and in short had a strange man follow me onto the beach/stoney area and stand a foot behind me while I was looking around. He seemed to be waiting to see if I would go down the track. I couldn't return straight back to the car as a train was coming. When the train was gone I went back to the car park to find my husband coming to see if I was alright because he had thought the man looked suspicious. (long story sorry).

Anyway in short- There wouldn't be much point buying in Holywell, if it wasn't safe to go walking there. If anyone does walk there regularally I'd be keen to hear if this was just an unusual day down there.

2. Upgrading of Village
I heard the village was due an upgrade a couple of years ago by the council but this still hasn't materialised. Does anyone know if this is actually going to happen?

3. There are a number of houses for sale here for the 18 months and have still not sold. I know there is a general downward/slow trend in the market but this seems to be quite bad. Any comments? Holywell does not seem to be sellingwell either, and I'm wondering is this because this area is seen as a bad investment? Has anybody heard anything about this development?

4.Any gaelscoile nearby?

Thanks again- and all comments/info welcomed!

CHD

Whats with the Kilcoole bashing?its a much safer place than greystones/bray etc and a great place to live!

kiwifruit

We moved to kilcoole (beachdale estate) in december. while we like the house and have lovely neighbours we have had a few incidents. the first weekend the mirror was stolen off my car, when we were away over xmas our bins were stolen. last week somebody left a big empty cardboard box outside our front door. not trying to put you off and i know these could happen anywhere, but we've only been there 2 months and will now be getting a gate put up and sensor lights and anything else we can think of to ward off this kind of petty vandalism

Pixied

There's no bashing of Kilcoole(or Greystones) here.

Just trying to have an open balanced discussion based on peoples experiences.

Idu

are there any ghosts in kilcoole CHDpoker?

Tim131

I'm from Greystones, I don't like it, too much snobbery and nothing to do, its not the community it once was, where everyone knew everyone. Too much development, don't get me started on the bloody harbour.

I think Kilcoole is a great place, the people are lovely, and I'd sooner live their than Greystones, the only thing Greystones has better than Kilcoole is the DART, but if you have a car, you're sorted.

I have a few mates there, and they say, yeah theres a few unsavory characters there, its a grand place to be, and to be honest you'll get boy racers where ever you go in Wicklow, they're everywhere lol, if you think Kilcoole/Greystones area has a lot of them, go to Arklow lol

CHD

janets_on_clubs wrote: »

are there any ghosts in kilcoole CHDpoker?

3 that i know of.saw them meself.more out there,i will find them.....

oinkely

Kilcoole is grand. i lived in charlesland for a year and then moved to kilcoole as i needed a bigger house with side access and wanted a garden and charlesland did not represent good value. So much so that I sold a two bed apartment and bought a three bed house for not a whole lot more money. check out the bentley estate, small and quiet and reasonably good value for money at the moment. haven't had any issues with vandalism etc, though there are some yappy dogs about! There's boy racers and skanger me bangers in all areas, though they are more concentrated in certain parts of kilcoole & nwtownmountkennedy. i walk and run along the beach from that carpark and have not noticed any real anti social behaviour there, but i would not be there very regularly.

John Mason

Kilcoole is grand, spent many years of youth "hanging" around there and still have a lot of friends living in the village.

The only complaint i would have about it, and i know this is starting to change, is the lack of facilities, the roads are in a shocking state. But i always found it to be very safe.

Gapa

I have lived in the Greystone / Delgany area all my life. Kilcoole is fine - Its only the people that don't live there - have bad things to say about it.:rolleyes:

WiCkLaMuLlA

wonder if any of ye moved to 'Glenroe' then.....? I'm originally from Clocha Liath (Greystones) and oil tell ya there used to some quare characters from G'stones, Delgany, Kilcoole, Newtown etc etc but no more than anywhere else in my humble onion. A least the youths hangin' out of cars in Greystones have 07 cars !!! are there any 07 cars in the 'Coole' i wonder........( yes i am joking!!!!) hope the respective house moves went well. ps i agrozzle that Greystones and Kilcoole are quite underdeveloped, G'stones aint as noice as it used to be back in the 70's/80's. wicky

Jobo32

Does anyone know where the halting site(s) is situated in Kilcoole?
I presume there is one 'cos most towns do.

i recently reviewed the draft local area plan for kilcoole (2008) and noted that 4 different residential areas are potential sites for a new halting site. I wonder if anyone has any more detail?

cheers

The Real B-man

Jobo32 wrote: »

Does anyone know where the halting site(s) is situated in Kilcoole?
I presume there is one 'cos most towns do.

i recently reviewed the draft local area plan for kilcoole (2008) and noted that 4 different residential areas are potential sites for a new halting site. I wonder if anyone has any more detail?

cheers

Halting site is gone years it used to be where new units of the Industrial estate is.

Jobo32

For anyone thinking of buying in the Holywell estate - DON'T ! The developers are very unprofessional (dont tend to residents problems) and the houses are of a very poor quality. There is no street lighting in the latest phase and no drainage in the gardens ! The one street flooded and didnt drain recently. A number of houses have had plumbing issues and gas boilers not wired properly. The foremen promise the earth but don't turn up. The talk is that developers might go under.

Box09

The Holywell houses are built to a high standard and offer good value relative to other houses around. For your information, the developer is not going bust and is, in fact, on of the few developers still selling houses in East Wicklow. They have sold over one house a week this year and are now starting another 48 houses in Holywell Grove. Why would a developer who is going to go bust continue to build? The houses are selling and the development is nice. Are you a competing developer?

heavyballs

as new builds go the quality is ok compared to other houses i've bought and seen,
you won't find a house that's perfect in a big development like this that's perfect,
havn't had many problems since i bought 2 years ago,paint on the walls in pretty poxy though,skirts are pretty crap,kitchen in the four bed is very small for a decent sized house
apart from that we're happy here,wouldn't use the pubs much at night as not big drinkers but good for grub at lunch and good selction of restaurants just acouple of mins away in Greystones

Jobo32

It's funny the way every development is "luxurious". I'm not a developer, but a close friend of a resident and it makes my blood boil that there are still shoddy houses going up with poor service after the sale, in this post housing-boom/fiasco world. If anyone is seriously thinking about buying, just get in touch with me and I'll tell you what to look for when they spec the house. In the meantime my friend and his neighbours are digging up their gardens to put in drainage systems at their own costs.

heavyballs

Jobo32 wrote: »

It's funny the way every development is "luxurious". I'm not a developer, but a close friend of a resident and it makes my blood boil that there are still shoddy houses going up with poor service after the sale, in this post housing-boom/fiasco world. If anyone is seriously thinking about buying, just get in touch with me and I'll tell you what to look for when they spec the house. In the meantime my friend and his neighbours are digging up their gardens to put in drainage systems at their own costs.

what's the story with the drains,is it flowing down from the top of the house or what(back or front garden)?,what part of the estate is that in?

finnis

Holywell Phase 2 was built on wetlands and there was a big river diverted. Some of the houses in phase 2 are built where the old river was.

DubOnHoliday

Hollywell looks grand from the outside. However the land was a bog before the houses were built so I can completely understand the drainage issues. I looked at these houses in 2007, but chose elsewhere. Thanking my lucky starts I didn't pay the 520k they were looking for the 3 beds in 07.

finnis

Phase's 1 & 3 was built on good land. I'm afraid phase 2 was built on a bog.

heavyballs

having a problem with the central heating,in my old house there was a lever in the hotpress that increased the presure in the system as it's now at 0,i can't find one in this house,any help appreciated.

geem

If buying a house in Greystones or kilcoole or anywhere for that matter ask the old people their opinion. There are houses built on, over and near rivers, there are houses built on old sandpits etc. The old people will tell you straight.

Jobo32

Give Ciaran (the younger foreman) a shout. He turned a screw in our hotpress and pressure returned. Unfortunately, I wasn't there when he adjusted it, so I don't know exactly which one he did.

carser

Hey

Some help needed please, we are seriously considering buying a house in phase 3 in Holywell, we have heard a few things that people might be able to shed light on?

1 - Kingscroft are in financial difficulty and as a result have promised to include more than the average "Social affordable" allocation than normal?

2 - Road surfacing very bad

3 - Builders lack of co-operation in realtion to any house problems that may arrise

All advice from people welcome, thanks

Jobo32

1- Cant comment.
2- Road surfacing in phase 1 wasn't done until phase 2 was completed. Some delaying going on there. Still no road names in phase 2. Minimal lighting in phase 2. All of these after much complaining by the residents. God knows when they will surface phase 2. Also, the council gave them a condition to complete the side walk from the estate towards the main street. Still waiting.
3- Major issue. And this was the case when the full teams were are site. Now there is a handful of skeleton staff around. Good luck getting any co-operation.

I am an owner in phase 2. I would simply say to you; don't do it. The quality is very poor. Typical celtic tiger homes. Cheaply and unprofessionally built. eg stairs not fastened to the wall, first floor beams (joices?) are not solid, but 2 pieces joined by metal brackets, chipboard floors upstairs (not screwed down), partition walls nailed instead of screwed down (come loose and squeak), sound travels throughout house, I know of other houses that have water coming through back doors, someone in phase 1 is still chasing them through courts for water coming through the windows upstairs, no drainage in gardens, crap and sparse grass seed etc etc. Kingscroft will shaft you and give you no aftersales respect. Keep your dignity. Honestly

littlemaxi

1 - Kingscroft are in financial difficulty and as a result have promised to include more than the average "Social affordable" allocation than normal?

Just thought id post the following about "social affordable" houses.. As an affordable house purchaser in 2001, i can assure you that this is the least of your worries when making a purchasing decision..

The basic criteria is income related, and the only real difference is that the Co. Council loans the mortgage, rather than a bank (not a bad thing, i might add). See below.. nothing to be sniffed at in my opinion.. there are also minimum income levels, so at least one person must be fully employed.

"The income test

Single income household: If your gross income (before tax) in the last income tax year was €40,000 or less, you are eligible.
Two income households: Multiply the gross income (before tax) of the higher earner in the last income tax year by 2.5 and add the gross income of the other earner in the last income tax year. If the answer is €100,000 or less, you are eligible"

Oldlegs

littlemaxi wrote: »

1 - Kingscroft are in financial difficulty ....
[/I]

Be wary of Kingscroft. Bought a house from them a few years back. Make VERY sure you get a surveyor to do a FULL snag list and withhold some of the final payment subject to the snag list being fully addressed.

In the current climate, it is a buyers market - not the developers - time for Kingscroft to build to a decent standard.

Some very basic examples I saw ..
1. Red & Blue valves on the plumbing attached to the wrong pipes (50% change of getting it right !)
2. Some external vents in the walls inserted UPSIDE down !
3. Inadequate fitting of insulation
4. Builders rubble left under the topsoil (typical for a lot of developers)
Oh yeah ...
5. Roof tiles not nailed down, merely placed on top of each other.

wicklowgal

We're also seriously considering buying a 3 bed semi-d in phase 3 in Holywell. Anybody else here bought a phase 3 house? How are you getting on?

Also any other nice estates that people would recommend in Kilcoole? We're not set on Holywell either but would like something relatively new or in good shape.

DubOnHoliday

wicklowgal wrote: »

We're also seriously considering buying a 3 bed semi-d in phase 3 in Holywell. Anybody else here bought a phase 3 house? How are you getting on?

Also any other nice estates that people would recommend in Kilcoole? We're not set on Holywell either but would like something relatively new or in good shape.

Woodstock, nice quiet estate.

j@utis

Jobo32 wrote: »

I am an owner in phase 2. I would simply say to you; don't do it. The quality is very poor. Typical celtic tiger homes. Cheaply and unprofessionally built. eg stairs not fastened to the wall, first floor beams (joices?) are not solid, but 2 pieces joined by metal brackets, chipboard floors upstairs (not screwed down), partition walls nailed instead of screwed down (come loose and squeak), sound travels throughout house, I know of other houses that have water coming through back doors, someone in phase 1 is still chasing them through courts for water coming through the windows upstairs, no drainage in gardens, crap and sparse grass seed etc etc. Kingscroft will shaft you and give you no aftersales respect. Keep your dignity. Honestly

Honestly :rolleyes: if you want quality - built it yourself for yourself. that's the only way. developer is a businessman. quality isn't in his objectives. don't be naive.
btw, chipboard was screwed down in our one and my partner put some extra screws in just to be sure to be sure. noise travels through the house the same way like in the other this type of houses. we dug some styrofoam out in the back garden last summer, till then I didn't know that styrofoam was a natural resourse

We bought in Holywell almost 2 years ago, not sure what phase that'd be. It is the warmest house I've lived in so far (out of 5 others while renting). Last winter we were getting gas bills for about 160e/month - that doesn't sound too little I know; but some time in spring a guy from bordgas came to read the meter and next month we got a bill stating that we were 380e in credit. Half of last November bill was covered by that overpayment. I should try to locate all the gas bills and calculate an average one day...
I can't comment on the pubs as I don't have a drinking problem. My partner goes for 2-3hrs walks on the beach almost everyday - never a problem apart the dog poop and the start by the train platform.
I love the area - it's very very quiet, and the solar panels on the roof are god sent - from march to october hot water is always in the tap, naturally Getting onto N11 is always a smooth ride - never any traffic around here. Value for money is great - our mortgage is half the rent price we used to pay. recession, austerity measures, horse meat? not a bother, live and laugh.