Ground Zero 08 may not happen ?

Shiva

It seems there's a bit of uproar started today in the Airsoft community across the water.

Frenchie has resigned from the chair of UKARA over allegations Zero One/ Ground Zero have been violating the UKARA rules relating to the VCRA defence for Airsoft. The full story is still developing, but it looks like it could rock Airsoft in the UK.

If Zero One are ejected from UKARA (as is being urged by some members), it would put their entire business in jeopardy.
(For those who aren't aware, Zero One are the retail arm of the Ground Zero skirmish site)

Developing threads on Arnies and ASCUK.

(You may need to copy and paste the following link - It seems ASCUK might be blocking outside sites from linking to it -

http://www.airsoftcommunity.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=121208&st=80)

NakedDex

Whoa, that's a bit mad? I wanted to go to that this year but if what they're saying is true then I wouldn't bother, whether it's run or not. Circumventing the legislation that has made airsoft a respected and regulated sport in the UK in the eyes of the public destroys everything worked for by the UKARA and portrays a terrible image too.

Luckily it seems to be an isolated incident and even Zero Ones own customer base seems disgusted.

Lemming

I would hold off on speculation and/or crucifixion calls for the moment until a formal statement has been released by those involved.

NakedDex

I agree, I don't want to sound premature or hasty. But if it is true, then I hold to what I said. If not, I retract and apologise. I'd expect the UKARA to make a statement in a few days

lord wagstaff

I try and keep off forums if at all possible, they seem to have a negative effect on me and make everythiing seem doom and gloom.

Of course, I realise the Irony of actually typing this on a forum.

I tried to read all the topics that were linked to in this thread, but to be honest it just made hard work reading it all, so I will decide on the 08 event closer to the time when their website is up. I can't see them cancelling the event though as UKARA membership is not necessary to run a site.

Hivemind187

Before anyone starts getting upset over this remember ... it applies to the UK only and has NOTHING to do with us over here.

In fact, Airsoft in Ireland is pretty much safe (please see the egm notes).

tonyj_mc

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Before anyone starts getting upset over this remember ... it applies to the UK only and has NOTHING to do with us over here.

In fact, Airsoft in Ireland is pretty much safe (please see the egm notes).

are these available on-line, i applied to join about a week before the egm and have heard nothing yet

Never mind, found them under the downlaod section

NakedDex

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Before anyone starts getting upset over this remember ... it applies to the UK only and has NOTHING to do with us over here.

In fact, Airsoft in Ireland is pretty much safe (please see the egm notes).

It does if you had intended on travelling over for it. I know I did and I'd hazard a guess that a couple of others may have been thinking about it. It was supposedly the best run event in the UK last year with over 1000 people in attendance.

Hivemind187

I was just circumventing the inevitable worriers who assume that such things affect the way airsoft is dealt with in Ireland.

What happens in England involving a group who have positioned themselves as the representative body of all of airsoft while being comprised solely of retailers is their own business.

GZ08 will probably still go ahead once this all gets resolved, at least by the look of things.

Shiva

I just posted it out of general interest...I thought a few people might have some thoughts on the matter.

UKARA aren't a governing body for Airsoft in the UK though, no matter how they view themselves. They're a governing body for retailers. And it was pretty obvious from the start that not having any oversight from an actual airsoft governing body was a pretty bad idea. Its only natural, human nature being what it is, that individual retailers on the committee would consider their own interests when it came to policing the organisation.

Hivemind187

exactly the reason we are not following their governing model.

Shiva

Hivemind187 wrote: »

exactly the reason we are not following their governing model.

We're doing rather well as we are, methinks.

lord wagstaff

Couldn't agree more, as long as it doesn't affect me, it's all good.

Hivemind187

Shiva wrote: »

We're doing rather well as we are, methinks.

Yes. I think we are too

ScumLord

I went to that ascuk website and all I could think was someone should tell them that Ireland is not part of the UK and N.I has it's own flag. Unless maybe their saying the island of Ireland should be united which will only see the unionists up in arms. Their trouble causers alright. :rolleyes:

Lemming

ScumLord wrote: »

I went to that ascuk website and all I could think was someone should tell them that Ireland is not part of the UK and N.I has it's own flag. Unless maybe their saying the island of Ireland should be united which will only see the unionists up in arms. Their trouble causers alright. :rolleyes:

Airsoft in Ireland happens to have a rather good relationship between north and south in my opinion. TBH, contacting the ASCUK and saying what you suggest is both petty and stirring the proverbial sh*t that you so claim others of doing.

So, stow that attitude please. It has no place on this island.

zero19

The N.I. lads are sound out, i learned from them all about the basics of airsoft back in august 2006 and made a few purchases from lads up there too

Boston

Whats the allegation?

NakedDex

Basically some information has come to light that indicates they may have been signing new people up as members after only a days skirmishing which would allow them to purchase rif's under the VCRA. However, according to the VCRA you must play a minimum of 3 games in 2 months before becoming a member.

It's being assumed that if they are, or were, doing this, they were signing them up and selling items after their first game, contrary to VCRA regulations. However, signing them up would allow these people to buy anything, anywhere.

Lemming

NakedDex wrote: »

Basically some information has come to light that indicates they may have been signing new people up as members after only a days skirmishing which would allow them to purchase rif's under the VCRA. However, according to the VCRA you must play a minimum of 3 games in 2 months before becoming a member.

It's being assumed that if they are, or were, doing this, they were signing them up and selling items after their first game, contrary to VCRA regulations. However, signing them up would allow these people to buy anything, anywhere.

You've got it a bit wrong Dex. The three-games in not less than 2 months ruling is nothing to do with the VCRA in itself, but the UKARA scheme designed to protect retailers only from prosecution under the VCRA.

The VCRA doesn't care how you go about buying your airsoft devices, just that you can prove yourself to be a skirmisher.

NakedDex

Oh, I was of the understanding that it was a UKARA idea that was integrated into the VCRA. My apologies in such case.

lord wagstaff

From a post on their forums it looks like quite a few people are under scrutiny for various offences, something I didn't realise from the ASCUK posts. Looks like even a handful of British retailers can't agree, and some kiddie on there wants to start a players organisation...I bet he wants it forum based, so good luck with that eh! What a nightmare!

Still, time to polish my guns!!

Hivemind187

lord wagstaff wrote: »

From a post on their forums it looks like quite a few people are under scrutiny for various offences, something I didn't realise from the ASCUK posts. Looks like even a handful of British retailers can't agree, and some kiddie on there wants to start a players organisation...I bet he wants it forum based, so good luck with that eh! What a nightmare!

Still, time to polish my guns!!

ummmm ... what?

Shiva

Lemming wrote: »

You've got it a bit wrong Dex. The three-games in not less than 2 months ruling is nothing to do with the VCRA in itself, but the UKARA scheme designed to protect retailers only from prosecution under the VCRA.

The VCRA doesn't care how you go about buying your airsoft devices, just that you can prove yourself to be a skirmisher.

Its not part of the VCRA, but it is part of the Home Office recommendations on what constitutes a skirmisher. While not being part of the actual act, its the criteria the enforcing bodies (customs and police) are supposed to use.

lord wagstaff

Hivemind187 wrote: »

ummmm ... what?

Polish my guns, don't we all do that.....haha

No, sorry, I went to Ground Zeros website to see if I could find any information on these huge events and then started reading their forums about their side of the story.

Did anyone go last year? Looks expensive so I'd like to know if it's worth the cash!

Hivemind187

Lemming went to last years ... liked it so much he immediately bought an Inokatsu M60E03 so that tells you how good it can be.

As for the argument thats going on, I figure that it wont stop a big GZ event since they are not actually breaking the law, only at odds with the rules laid down by the UKARA.

Lemming

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Lemming went to last years ... liked it so much he immediately bought an Inokatsu M60E03 so that tells you how good it can be.

In fairness, I was drooling over the M60 anyway. I just got to fondle one in the flesh to so speak, which sealed the fate of a large chunk of cash in my account

Puding

I would not underestimate people reaction to what they did, althought they did not break any laws, what they have done is put the 'defence' of being a skirmisher at risk and given ammunition to any anti airsoft bandwagon out there in the uk.

Its very hard to follow a lot of the forum threads about this but the legality of airsoft in the Uk is unclear at best and any muddying of the waters is not good for all.

lord wagstaff

so lemming, seeing as you are so photogenic, are there any photos of you in action with the m60?

If you are lucky I can get it out on the front covers of Big boys with big guns :eek:

Boston

heres some

Lemming

Picture Courtesy of Gandalf

Shiva

Lemming wrote: »

Picture Courtesy of Gandalf

You don't expect us to believe thats you, do you ?

Thats a picture taken from the Time magazine archives of a grunt in Mai Lang in 1969. You just grew a beard to look like him

Boston

Flicker now seem to require a yahoo account.

NakedDex

Flickr and Yahoo combined for some techincal sharing reason that I can't remember. Signing up only takes a minute and you don't have to actually use their services.

Boston

Nah. I don't like marketing. I can see this killing flicker as a huge number of people will simply not sign up.

NakedDex

Flickrs just like myspace, there are lots of alternatives, that's just the most popular.

I have a few images on Flickr but the bulk of anything I've put online is on Photobucket. That's always been free.

lord wagstaff

Looks like this UKARA thing has died its' death.

From UKARA website.

UKARA Statement

Posted January 23rd, 2008 by admin Although we are not obliged to publish our associations internal affairs on this occasion we have chosen to do so.
The UKARA Committee has been reviewing the evidence relating to accusations levelled at several UKARA members of malpractice.
In relation to Ground Zero Game Site we remain unconvinced that it has breached the UKARA code of conduct.
The message on Ground Zeros game web site was poorly worded causing some readers confusion.
UKARA has asked them to change this to improve the clarity.
They state their message intent was to say :~
“After satisfying the conditions for GZ site registration your UKARA information will be added to the database immediately by Zero One Airsoft”
Their concern was that some players having completed the requirements for registration to the database were having to wait an excessive period of time before being listed.
Unfortunately their wording could be construed to mean that instant database registration would occurs after one visit.
We have been assured by the game site manger that this has never been the case.
The manager has stated that :~
"As site manager I run the GZ membership scheme, and have from the start, we have always implemented the 3/2 preregistration rules".
There has been no evidence to challenge his statement.