Audi Quattro (to be or not to be)

r0nn13

Hi,

Has anyone driven the same model/year Audi's with and without Quattro?

Is Quattro really worth the drop in MPG and the increase in Tax after the July changes to VRT/Tax? The only advantage i see with the Quattro is in winter... I would drive between 18-24k miles per year so looking for a safe reliable car and this fits the bill perfectly...

I am thinking of buying and importing a 2003/2004 Audi A4 1.9 130ps then.

Was also trying to see if there is any big difference between the SE and Sport models too which I can't seem to see apart from the Sports suspension

Is this suspension really firm and do you feel the major bumps more?

N8

r0nn13

I have drove both. It very much depends on your vigour of driving, the roads in your area and those you intend driving upon.

The quattro does hold the road much better but this is only really noticeable under harder driving conditions.

If the roads you intend to be on are good and lack tight twisty corners, muck or leafy conditions the quattro is unlikely to be of much benefit, even if testing national speed limits.

In the winter the quattro will hill climb that bit better for sure, will have improved road handling and will recover that bit quicker but the question would then be - if the road conditions are that bad why not slow down?

The SE models have traction control and a higher level of comfort. If the roads you ll be on are good you will get away with sport suspension but why when there is the comfort to be found in an SE.

I am still unfamiliar with the new VRT/Tax regime to be introduced but as I understand it the tax will remain the same (bar the 9% increase) if the car is VRT'd pre June. So then your considerations will be the increase in fuel (@100 litres maybe per year) versus resaleablility and (perhaps) the added encouragement toward riskier driving when safety is one of your stated aims in purchase (how many safe drivers drive four wheel drive sports cars?).

r0nn13

Hi,

Thanks for the detailed response. As always boards.ie members know their stuff.

I would consider myself to be a safe driver (doesn't everyone), but I will be mostly driving on A and B roads so was just thinking of getting a Quattro SE for comfort and safer driving due to the poor road conditions.

I drive slower when the road conditions are bad, and my car (no ABS, ESP or Traction) has never slipped or slid, just looking for a safer car all-round this time.
Safety is my #1 priority here and not how fast this car goes round corners...
Think I would have safety over a more fuel economic car too...

Is the Quattro less desirable for resale (when I do decide to change it that is, as I have seen these cars with huge mileage)?

What are the sort of servicing/intervals costs for this car also?

N8

The non quattro SE has traction control whereas the sport doesn't.

If safety is top priority then you will have to decide whether you will risk take with the quattro. I must admit I tended to because I knew the added grip was there but when the kids were in the car I drove with a heightened care and attention whether it was the quattro or not.

The quattro will help resale. Presently it is a €5K option on new Audis.

Often the Audis imported from the UK are fleet and have higher miles on them because they were bought for their economy. However, they are still to be found in the cities and on occasion for the same reasons as you have stated (safety) they are also to be found in the cities in the UK. I heard recently of someone buying a 03' Quattro (don't know if it was SE or S) with 55K miles FASH in London for under £8500.

Servicing I got done locally so it was never expensive nor was I doing a lot of driving at the times I had both but I do remember they had longer intervals than the petrol car I am driving now!

Anan1

OP - Do bear in mind that the advantages of the quattro system exist only under acceleration. Given what you have said about your driving, and particularly about the importance of safety,I would recommend finding a car without quattro but with ESP as opposed to simple traction control.

r0nn13

I have just seen some Quattro’s that state dual climate control. Is this a standard feature on any of these SE, Sport or Quattro, 2WD drive cars? Just wondering as it would be a nice feature to have...

I think normal climate control is standard across the SE/Sport range...

Very good price for that Audi in London, will widen my search then

r0nn13

Anan1 wrote: »

OP - Do bear in mind that the advantages of the quattro system exist only under acceleration. Given what you have said about your driving, and particularly about the importance of safety,I would recommend finding a car without quattro but with ESP as opposed to simple traction control.

As far as i understand Traction Control just reduces power/brakes the driving wheels to stop them from loosing grip.

ESP uses the ABS and cutting power to each wheel from what i am aware when you are braking suddenly or a sudden lane changing manoeuvre, but does ESP replace the job of Traction control?

Think the SE non-Quattro has ESP but no Traction control, where as the Quattro has both (and ABS of course)...

I am prob way off here, let me know if i am

Anan1

ESP is a system that can brake each wheel individually to correct a slide. It includes traction control and ABS functions. Have a look at www.euroncap.com/esp.aspx , they have a couple of videos of ESP in action. Having invoked it deliberately on a wet roundabout, I can tell you that it really is a potential lifesaver.

Moanin

r0nn13 wrote: »

I have just seen some Quattro’s that state dual climate control. Is this a standard feature on any of these SE, Sport or Quattro, 2WD drive cars? Just wondering as it would be a nice feature to have...

I think normal climate control is standard across the SE/Sport range...

Very good price for that Audi in London, will widen my search then

I have a TDI SE and it has dual climate control.As far as I know it's standard on most models including Irish cars?

MarkN

One thing to bear in mind and not a lot of people know it but very few everyday Audis have permanent 4WD - the RS4 being one of them, spreading power 40/60 between front and rear wheels IIRC, The R8 is another.

When you see a normal Audi with a Quattro badge it basically means that when the front wheels start to lose grip, it transfers the power to all four wheels.

Even the 2007 S3 I had worked like that.

Would the S3 have been as fun a car without Quattro? Without a doubt, no. But you are talking about 130bhp in a family car here so I'm not so sure you need it, being honest.

It is a nice feature to have - the most obvious being wet roads. Does it rain a lot in Ireland? Quattro will have already paid for itself when using it in a country like this IMO.

r0nn13

MarkN wrote: »

Does it rain a lot in Ireland?

haha, very true indeed, esp if last summer was any indicator.

Think I would prefer to get Quattro if i can, otherwise a 2WD SE will do. Will test drive both just to be sure, and on a wet day hopefully

Thanks for the info, very informative posts from all posters.

cantdecide

I agree. I've had SE and Quattro Sport A4s (currently have A6 Quattro Sport) and can agree- you never get that kart like sensation of 4WD you'll get, in say a Subaru. Quattro is rarely if ever 4WD.

N8

r0nn13 wrote: »

Think I would prefer to get Quattro if i can, otherwise a 2WD SE will do. Will test drive both just to be sure, and on a wet day hopefully

Just so you know the Passat 4Motion uses the same Haldex LSC unit for 4WD as the Audi and a Passat Highline 4Motion would have all the bits and pieces as an Audi for less money...

r0nn13

N8 wrote: »

Just so you know the Passat 4Motion uses the same Haldex LSC unit for 4WD as the Audi and a Passat Highline 4Motion would have all the bits and pieces as an Audi for less money...

I have never driven a Passat, but as a passenger i found the ride to be very wallowy, where as the A4 seemed to be a better drive as a passenger. Suppose it is free to test drive the Passat and see...

RobAMerc

I have had 4*4 cars and have to say I found the sense of security fantastic compared to 2 wheel drive cars.

In Ireland where many of our B road surfaces are dire, are covered in cow dung, littered with potholes and puddles and its almost always wet, the advantage of 4*4 is increased.

Ok you will lose steering feel, the car can't be adjusted as well on the throttle, compared to a 2*4 and there may be economy issues - but meet some cow dung in a bend, accelerate a bit too early or hard from a wet or icy roundabout (rwd), hit some standing water at speed and tell me 4*4 aint worth having !


I would go 4*4 particularly if the cost wasn't too big and issue and safety was.

Often 4*4 is working away in ways you have no idea about - getting you out of situations you might not even realize your in!

cantdecide

RobAMerc- are you talking about Quattros?? I've never gotten that sensation of security from either of the quattros I've had. My brothers Legacy always feels very re-assuring but my Audis always feels like FWD.

mickdw

well your quattro is fwd until it needs to power the rear wheels. they feel very good however if you throw them into a bend. I have a TT Quattro and it almost seems to balance itself in the middle of the bend then fire you out safely the other side. Dont know what other quattros feel like.

RobAMerc

cantdecide wrote: »

RobAMerc- are you talking about Quattros??

To be fair I only drove a TT in the dry, the others were scoobies an integrale an escort cossie and a couple of 4*4 variant saloons, but I am sure even if the Audi system is not permanent the lack of security is more down to poor chassis dynamics than anything else.

Chris Harris of Autocar wrote some time ago how people had been under the misapprehension that Audi had produced sports cars -
Audi probably hasn't produced a good handling sports car between the original Quattro and the current(outgoing) RS4!

Can't say I disagree from my experience.

but the O/p is looking for safety - Quattro hasn got to be safer in low traction conditions - no matter who makes it

N8

r0nn13 if it is safety you are worried about over economy perhaps consider a subaru. The Outback and Forester are wolves in sheeps clothing. I had a Forester too and besides the issue of economy (averaged 26mpg) I replaced the brakes and anti roll bars. It was a great car and had a high NCAP.

r0nn13

N8: Safety is #1 but I would like to have a decent enough MPG too though. The plan is to buy one from the UK and then import it, prob after July depending on what car I do eventually get. I always thought all the 4WD Subaru's were in the 20-25 MPG category?

cantdecide

r0nn13 wrote: »

N8: Safety is #1 but I would like to have a decent enough MPG too though. The plan is to buy one from the UK and then import it, prob after July depending on what car I do eventually get. I always thought all the 4WD Subaru's were in the 20-25 MPG category?

All the good ones are!! But a 2.0 legacy will be in the high twenties.

The subarus of course have the boxer engine which is beneficial for handling/ safety by virtue of it's lower centre of gravity. These things are as sure-footed as a mountain goat. You can take a realtively small hit on mpg- be objective and do the sums for yourself-don't just bawk if it's below a magic number.

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=844842 When you consider there's no way you're getting a '05 A4 for that money, the value of having a bigger, more spacious estate that's just as nice looking (IMO) and far more practical with proper 4WD among many other benefits should moret han justify the mpg difference.

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=829019 This one is automatic and is drop dead gorgeous and should be got for around €19k ish. Again it's a case of a marginal increase in overall cost (all things considered) vs huge increase in value.

N8

cantdecide wrote: »

All the good ones are!! But a 2.0 legacy will be in the high twenties.

The forester I had averaged 26 and more on long journeys.

cantdecide wrote: »

The subarus …. are as sure-footed as a mountain goat.

Definitely

cantdecide wrote: »

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=844842 When you consider there's no way you're getting a '05 A4 for that money, the value of having a bigger, more spacious estate that's just as nice looking (IMO) and far more practical with proper 4WD among many other benefits should moret han justify the mpg difference.

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=829019 This one is automatic and is drop dead gorgeous and should be got for around €19k ish. Again it's a case of a marginal increase in overall cost (all things considered) vs huge increase in value.

I didn't realise they were that cheap. They are good value but will they be subject to new VRT and tax regimes ? The legacy has a CO2 @215, the forester 2.0 has a CO2 @ 232, the 2.5 XT/STi @ 254.

Motor tax:
Band F (191-225 grams per km) - €1,000
Band G (>225 grams per km) - €2,000

VRT:
Band F (191-225 grams per km) - 32%
Band G (>225 grams per km) - 36%

N8

it also seems from another thread to make sense to import/VRT the car in Dublin to increase the value of a car with a D reg

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=54901983&posted=1#post54901983

E92

N8 wrote: »

it also seems from another thread to make sense to import/VRT the car in Dublin to increase the value of a car with a D reg

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=54901983&posted=1#post54901983

From what I gather it's only in Dublin where a D reg is worth more, and besides that you can't get a D reg for the car unless you have a Dublin address.

r0nn13

E92 wrote: »

From what I gather it's only in Dublin where a D reg is worth more, and besides that you can't get a D reg for the car unless you have a Dublin address.

I have also heard that. Makes sense, otherwise all imports would be all D regs...

r0nn13

More questions, but about Audi A4 Costs? Just trying to get as much info as possible...

How much is a service with an Audi dealer these days?

Any other engine parts need to be replaced around 50-70k miles?

At what mileage does the Timing Belt need changed?

How long does the Suspension last for?

How many miles do you get out of your tyres?

Are the standard tyre sizes 215/55 R16?

Looking for personal experiences of these items…

m_stan

r0nn13 wrote: »

More questions, but about Audi A4 Costs? Just trying to get as much info as possible...

How much is a service with an Audi dealer these days?

Any other engine parts need to be replaced around 50-70k miles?

At what mileage does the Timing Belt need changed?

How long does the Suspension last for?

How many miles do you get out of your tyres?

Are the standard tyre sizes 215/55 R16?

Looking for personal experiences of these items…

I paid 440 for a service for my A4 1.9tdi SE 130bhp at an Audi garage a few months ago.

Timing belt is in the 50-55k miles arena.

Haven't had the car long enough to comment on length of wear on the tyres.

I have 234/45Z R17's on mine, but then I have upgraded wheels and it's a sport model.

I love my car. Great comfort, nice amount of power - esp for the fuel economy I get (52mpg in mixed driving), and the body and interior styling are second to none in it's class in my opinion.

Mine has lots of extras like heated leather, 6-cd changer in-dash, ESP etc

cantdecide

r0nn13 wrote: »

How long does the Suspension last for?

I think you're referring to the alu control arms.

What I'll say about this is that a lot of people say that if the car has the miles done and the first few arms have been replaced or will soon need replacing, you should bite the bullet and do them all at once (4 per side). I've not done this personally because mine have always been older so I replace them one at a time.

If you don't want this initial expense, you will find that the service you will do to the car where none of the arms need replacing, is the exception. This is simply because of our poor roads (or more specificly, the people who plough beligerently over everything without regard for our inferior surfaces- they can last a long long time if you slow down and pay attention).

The upside is that it's a superior suspension system overall, most of these arms are cheap and high qualliity spurious alternatives have come in over the last few years so it boils down to more of an annoyance than an expense.

If you are buying a reasonably fresh one- demand that the timing belt be done becasue this is a much bigger expense in an Audi than most manufacturers.

Don't be put off- you could buy a Toyota but the problem there is that you'll have to drive a Toyota;)

MarkN

E92 wrote: »

From what I gather it's only in Dublin where a D reg is worth more, and besides that you can't get a D reg for the car unless you have a Dublin address.

If you know someone in Dublin you can "rent a room off them".